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Forums - Sony Discussion - What if Sony had released Playstation 3 without a Blu-Ray Player

Bboid on 26 January 2009

FYI, BRD cost was about $125.  Excluding this drive in favor of a $25 drive wouldnt drop launch price to $399.  The extreme costs in production is possibly more centered around the cell.  You also have to stop and remember the royalties made per BRdisc sold and the fct that the ps3 also put more players in homes (by force really).  So excluding the BRD would still land it in 3rd place.



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Reasonable on 26 January 2009
sunil247 said:
What happens to all the games that have been published in Blu Ray?

They would have been on DVD, with some requiring more than one disk!  Which is why BR is in the PS3 and this is just a 'what if' exercise.  Well, it's one of the reasons anyway.

 

 



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Onyxmeth on 26 January 2009
alpha_dk said:
I don't know why people are assuming HD-DVD would win. All it would have done would be to force more competition in the standalone realm; lower prices, more features and competition, and the formats battling on their own merits. Is everyone who is saying Blu-Ray would have lost also saying that Blu-Ray was worse than HD-DVD? Because even HD-DVD was too expensive for the mainstream at that point, so it would still have been a battle over the technophiles, which I am not so confident HD-DVD would have won...

I think people are still taking into account Microsoft releasing a standalone player for the 360.

 



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arsenicazure on 26 January 2009

We can easily assume a second place for SONY or atleast on par the 360- if it meant a $100 reduction on all SKU's.. and HD-DVD would be the de fact standard..



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alephnull on 26 January 2009
alpha_dk said:
tuoyo said:
alpha_dk said:
I don't know why people are assuming HD-DVD would win. All it would have done would be to force more competition in the standalone realm; lower prices, more features and competition, and the formats battling on their own merits. Is everyone who is saying Blu-Ray would have lost also saying that Blu-Ray was worse than HD-DVD? Because even HD-DVD was too expensive for the mainstream at that point, so it would still have been a battle over the technophiles, which I am not so confident HD-DVD would have won...

I think many of the movie studios that were Blu Ray exclusive (if not all besides those that are owned by Sony) did so because Blu Ray was going to be in every PS3. They would have expected PS3 to sell very well and (like me) saw no way HD DVD could possibly win.

If Sony hadn't trojan horsed Blu Ray I sincerely doubt those companies would have been Blu Ray exclusive. This would have resulted in a very different format war.

HD DVD sold more standalone devices by a wide margin despite the fact that Universal was the only exclusive studio. The HD DVD players were much more advanced than the blu ray ones and was the device of choice for tech heads even with the more limited movie selection.

Blu Ray discs may be better due to capacity and scratch resistance but on a hardware level in terms of capability and price there was no contest. With level footing movie selection and no blu ray in PS3 I don't see how blu ray would have stood a chance. The war would still be on by now (and universal players would probably have meant the war never ended) but I think HD DVD would have been way ahead in sales.

It is a huge pity that the decision was taken out of the hands of consumers as a result of Sony having the most successful video game brand ever.

 

I mean, I agree that HD-DVD wouldn't have kicked the bucket, I just am not sure that it would have 'lost' yet, unless you define 'lost' as 'not won.' I think they would still be competing, and probably be getting smaller slices of a larger pie.

Personally, I preferred HD-DVD due to the lack of region coding, but Blu-Ray would have been a better choice in the data medium for PCs, etc. I am pretty sure there could have been a market for both to survive. I don't see the need for either of them to 'lose' if there had been no BR in the PS3 (or even optional BR in the PS3). Frankly, either solution would have lost to digital distribution sooner rather than later anyways, so it's a moot point IMO, but that's not a topic for this discussion.

All I am saying is there could have been a market for two separate optical disk-based high-capacity standards. DVD+R didn't die off because DVD-Rs existed, and vice-versa. They complemented each other in a way that HD-DVD and BR very easily could have done as well.

There are region-free blueray players just like there was for dvd. So the only real difference other than capacity became .Net versus Java.

As far as digital distribution goes, I personally digitally distribute 1080p mkvs, however they are a pain in my ass. And I don't see bandwidth getting a whole lot better in most of the US. Netflixing bluerays is easier. Sneaker-net may have poor latency, but it has high bandwidth.

 



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Final-Fan on 26 January 2009
disolitude said:
alpha_dk said:
I don't know why people are assuming HD-DVD would win. All it would have done would be to force more competition in the standalone realm; lower prices, more features and competition, and the formats battling on their own merits. Is everyone who is saying Blu-Ray would have lost also saying that Blu-Ray was worse than HD-DVD? Because even HD-DVD was too expensive for the mainstream at that point, so it would still have been a battle over the technophiles, which I am not so confident HD-DVD would have won...
HDDVD would have won because...
- HD DVD sold much more standalone player than bluray once you subtract PS3.
- HD DVD had both the DVD and HD DVD copy on one disk so customers could have gotten the HD DVD copy even if they had only the DVD player
- HD DVD were cheaper to make as they are the same size as DVDs and the manufacturers didn't have to change the size of the machines used to press the damn things
- Finally, players and movies wee slightly cheaper on HDDVD.

1.  Some of those PS3 sales were to people who would have bought Blu-ray players if it wasn't in the PS3. 
2.  With HD DVD costing much more?  No, people would just buy the regular DVD. 
3.  Blu-ray discs are also the same size
4.  HD DVD had a head start, which is a lot of why they were cheaper.  The big price differences were after it started losing; price slashing began, which assumes that it was losing so you can't count that as a reason it would win. 

To answer the topic:  PS3 in second place and turning profit at a lower price; possibly FFXIII exclusive; Blu-ray still fighting HD DVD and somewhat probably winning slowly. 



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alpha_dk on 26 January 2009
alephnull said:
alpha_dk said:
tuoyo said:
alpha_dk said:
I don't know why people are assuming HD-DVD would win. All it would have done would be to force more competition in the standalone realm; lower prices, more features and competition, and the formats battling on their own merits. Is everyone who is saying Blu-Ray would have lost also saying that Blu-Ray was worse than HD-DVD? Because even HD-DVD was too expensive for the mainstream at that point, so it would still have been a battle over the technophiles, which I am not so confident HD-DVD would have won...

I think many of the movie studios that were Blu Ray exclusive (if not all besides those that are owned by Sony) did so because Blu Ray was going to be in every PS3. They would have expected PS3 to sell very well and (like me) saw no way HD DVD could possibly win.

If Sony hadn't trojan horsed Blu Ray I sincerely doubt those companies would have been Blu Ray exclusive. This would have resulted in a very different format war.

HD DVD sold more standalone devices by a wide margin despite the fact that Universal was the only exclusive studio. The HD DVD players were much more advanced than the blu ray ones and was the device of choice for tech heads even with the more limited movie selection.

Blu Ray discs may be better due to capacity and scratch resistance but on a hardware level in terms of capability and price there was no contest. With level footing movie selection and no blu ray in PS3 I don't see how blu ray would have stood a chance. The war would still be on by now (and universal players would probably have meant the war never ended) but I think HD DVD would have been way ahead in sales.

It is a huge pity that the decision was taken out of the hands of consumers as a result of Sony having the most successful video game brand ever.

 

I mean, I agree that HD-DVD wouldn't have kicked the bucket, I just am not sure that it would have 'lost' yet, unless you define 'lost' as 'not won.' I think they would still be competing, and probably be getting smaller slices of a larger pie.

Personally, I preferred HD-DVD due to the lack of region coding, but Blu-Ray would have been a better choice in the data medium for PCs, etc. I am pretty sure there could have been a market for both to survive. I don't see the need for either of them to 'lose' if there had been no BR in the PS3 (or even optional BR in the PS3). Frankly, either solution would have lost to digital distribution sooner rather than later anyways, so it's a moot point IMO, but that's not a topic for this discussion.

All I am saying is there could have been a market for two separate optical disk-based high-capacity standards. DVD+R didn't die off because DVD-Rs existed, and vice-versa. They complemented each other in a way that HD-DVD and BR very easily could have done as well.

There are region-free blueray players just like there was for dvd. So the only real difference other than capacity became .Net versus Java.

As far as digital distribution goes, I personally digitally distribute 1080p mkvs, however they are a pain in my ass. And I don't see bandwidth getting a whole lot better in most of the US. Netflixing bluerays is easier. Sneaker-net may have poor latency, but it has high bandwidth.

 

Region free BR (as with DVD before it) players are illegal in the US and any other part of the world with anti-DRM circumvention laws.  The HD DVD spec did not include region codes.  Hence, it was entirely legal, unlike with BR.

As for digital distribution, like i said; not a topic for this discussion.



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irstupid on 26 January 2009

well it would have one less buy from our family cause we use it solely for a blu ray player (no games)



Kasz216 on 26 January 2009

It still would of been too expensive due to the Cell... and still sold poorly. Better still... however likely still well behind the 360 due to the 360 being able to be cheaper.

The HD-DVD vs Blu-ray war might of continued on until this economic crisis, causing both HD formats to crash and burn.

So...

Nothing good.



Pyramid Head on 26 January 2009

we'll never know.

my opinion it might have done worse.

i know a lot of people who bought it just to watch movies.



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