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Forums - Sales Discussion - Profit Numbers: Nintendo, Sony (Game Segment) and Microsoft (EDD Segment)

Globox82 said:
In a long run PS3 will make sh1t load of money to Sony. Why? Well Blu Ray, Last time they didn't get much money from DVD sales, but with Blue ray it is different story. Not only this gen but when next gen both MS and Nintendo adopt Bluray in next gen systems( you know they will) they will pay licence fee to Sony for every disk/game sold.
Cell tech will be used in next PS, so even if it looks bad in a long run it is smart move. Just like in poker, long run is what counts.
Props to Nintendo, they know how to make money and stay in biz.
Ms? Well someone has to much money...

 

 Well, Rhonin did mention some things which are correct, and of which I fail to believe your assertions. There are 19 members of the BR association who collect royalties. I fail to believe that 18 of them would sit back and let Sony take 25% of the total. I could see possibly 10% or so, but I can't prove one way or the other.

As for the companies, yes, Nintendo has always had its own format. There is a possibility that they could still stick with a DVD-base, as it would be the easiest and cheapest to press. Or, depending on how the market plays out with the cost of flash media, I could even possibly see them going back to cartridges. If, by the end of the Wii2's life, a 64GB cart could be made relatively cheaply, it would give them even more space for games than a dual-layer BR. And since the 64GB USB drive already exists, by 2015 (mid-way through a Wii2's lifespan), I could see it being feasible. (Or they could make the cart a bit bigger and use multiple cheaper chips, just like the old days.) So Nintendo's not locked into BR.

And Microsoft? There's only one way I could see them going with BR for the 720, and that's if they keep the multimedia angle. But by that point, will people still want to buy one for a BR player, especially given that some of the standalone players have already come down below the 360 Arcade? They would not be able to hedge sales on systems too well for this, like some of the PS3 sales have done. But, given that both the Xbox and 360 used a DVD format, I do think Microsoft will want to move on. Recall, however, that they were part of the HDDVD group. While the format may be dead, the technology still exists, and it would be cheaper for Microsoft to use this than BR, which leans me more toward them actually using a (maybe) modified HDDVD disk rather than a BR.

So no, Sony's not guaranteed a load of money. As Alterego-X mentions, there are a lot of assumptions, both in your post and mine. I can't rule out that both Nintendo and Microsoft will use BR entirely, but I just can't see it happening.



-dunno001

-On a quest for the truly perfect game; I don't think it exists...

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Rhonin the wizard said:
Globox82 said:
In a long run PS3 will make sh1t load of money to Sony. Why? Well Blu Ray, Last time they didn't get much money from DVD sales, but with Blue ray it is different story. Not only this gen but when next gen both MS and Nintendo adopt Bluray in next gen systems( you know they will) they will pay licence fee to Sony for every disk/game sold.
Cell tech will be used in next PS, so even if it looks bad in a long run it is smart move. Just like in poker, long run is what counts.
Props to Nintendo, they know how to make money and stay in biz.
Ms? Well someone has to much money...

Sony isn't the only company that gets licencing fess from Blu-ray. And Nintendo will make its own format, like it did for the GameCube and Wii.

Uh, the Gamecube used a standard mini DVD and the Wii uses a standard DVD

and yes, Sony isn't the only company that makes money on Blu-ray, BUT they make more money from Blu-ray than Nintendo and M$(as in nada).

I'm afraid Globox82 has it right, either Nintendo and M$ can adopt Blu-ray or take an expensive undertaking of making their own high capacity formats.

 



Based upon the profitability chart which converts Sony and Nintendo into dollars on an annual basis

Sony has amassed 13% of the industry's combined $17.1 billion total profit for the current big three.

Microsoft has amassed -53%.

Nintendo has amassed 140%

In other words, Sony has done OK, Microsoft has lost a lot, and Nintendo has made buckets.

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Dang, nintendo's profits as of late are astronomical. Those are incredible figures.



shams said:
Summary:
- Ninty is making around $1bn/year profit (average)
- MS has lost an absolute shitload breaking into the industry
- when you factor in '95/'94 (Sony R&D for PS1), overall they are around break even point - or up $1-1.5bn. As a company, Sony may well be considerably better off if they never entered the industry in the first place.

The last two years have been (by far) the best profits ever for Nintendo.

This coming year for Sony will be a bad one - be interesting to compare overall vrs SCEE.

Uh, how do you figure???

They lost nearly 2 billion in 2007 and a tad over 1 billion in 2008. Obviously they were selling the PS3 at a huge loss at launch, but cheaper computer parts over time, plus the moving from the 90nm Cell and GPU to 65nm has brought costs down.

They were believed to be losing around $300 per console at launch and now it's believed that they are losing almost nothing.

Here's 2009 for Sony:

Small losses from PS3 consoles(possibly at break-even sometime this year when moving to 45nm).

Profits from PS3 games and accesories / PS2 consoles, games, and accesories / PSP systems, games, and accesories.

Also with strong lineups for PS3 and PSP games, I'm 99% sure they will post a profit. Seems logical to me

 



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You would be correct, if this were still the market of 2007-8. However, Sony is still going to lose money on their 2009 reports because of the exchange rates. Anything near the breakeven point last year is back to bleeding red again, and I can't see the huge tanking of the exchange rate being offset by a few more game sales (which also bring in less money per unit than before).



-dunno001

-On a quest for the truly perfect game; I don't think it exists...

mztazmz said:
Rhonin the wizard said:
Globox82 said:
In a long run PS3 will make sh1t load of money to Sony. Why? Well Blu Ray, Last time they didn't get much money from DVD sales, but with Blue ray it is different story. Not only this gen but when next gen both MS and Nintendo adopt Bluray in next gen systems( you know they will) they will pay licence fee to Sony for every disk/game sold.
Cell tech will be used in next PS, so even if it looks bad in a long run it is smart move. Just like in poker, long run is what counts.
Props to Nintendo, they know how to make money and stay in biz.
Ms? Well someone has to much money...

Sony isn't the only company that gets licencing fess from Blu-ray. And Nintendo will make its own format, like it did for the GameCube and Wii.

Uh, the Gamecube used a standard mini DVD and the Wii uses a standard DVD

and yes, Sony isn't the only company that makes money on Blu-ray, BUT they make more money from Blu-ray than Nintendo and M$(as in nada).

I'm afraid Globox82 has it right, either Nintendo and M$ can adopt Blu-ray or take an expensive undertaking of making their own high capacity formats.

"GCN games essentially come on what are three-inch DVD discs, and Nintendo holds the patent on that particular format."

GameSpy

"A single self-loading media bay will play single or double-layered 12-centimetre optical discs for the Wii console, as well as 8-centimetre Nintendo GameCube discs."

NOE

Nintendo's media formats are based on DVD technology, however, they aren't DVDs, thus Nintendo doesn't have to pay licensing fees to the DVD Forum.



It was already mentioned in this thread (and countless others) that the GameCube itself made a profit for Big N.
But can someone provide me with figures proving this.
I mean turnover (money, not units) figures just about Gamecube hard- and software showing how much profit Nintendo made in the last generation with their home console.

Note:
I am NOT doubting that Nintendo actually made a profit.
But figures (if they exist) or at least estimations would be nice.



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Viper1 said:
Impulsivity, the $1 billion charge off is paid. That money is no longer occurring on their balance sheets. That's what a one time charge means. It affects the balance sheet for that one quarter, that's it.

The worst thing about MS balance tranparency is that such expenses, together with part of R&D costs, product support, legal costs and settlements, fines, and, well, read their reports (1) if you want to know it more precisely, are accounted for in the balance sheet item "Corporate level activity", not in the divisions' balances.

(1) Not in all MS reports you find these infos well delimited and clear, this http://www.microsoft.com/msft/earnings/FY08/earn_rel_q4_08.mspx is one where you can find them quite clear and well separed from other arguments.

 



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oliist said:
It was already mentioned in this thread (and countless others) that the GameCube itself made a profit for Big N.
But can someone provide me with figures proving this.
I mean turnover (money, not units) figures just about Gamecube hard- and software showing how much profit Nintendo made in the last generation with their home console.

Note:
I am NOT doubting that Nintendo actually made a profit.
But figures (if they exist) or at least estimations would be nice.

Nintendo took a $9 dollar hit per console sold on the Gamecube when it launched.   It was the first time ever they took a hit on any hardware.  After 6 months of sales the BOM was low enough that they made up the initial $9 hit.    It was all solid profits after that point.

 

A breakdown of actual hardware profit per SKU is not available outside of Nintendo.

 



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