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Forums - Sony Discussion - The PS3 is profiting ($$$$$$$) because ..........

Dgc1808 on 12 January 2009

I believe in some parts of Eu they're making profit.



4 ≈ One

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NJ5 on 12 January 2009
Dgc1808 said:
I believe in some parts of Eu they're making profit.

Probably not with the current exchange rates.

400 € = $534

Now remove 20% VAT (it's more in some countries, less in others):

$534 / 120% = $445

Unless they're losing less than $50 per unit in USA, they're not making a profit in Europe.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

saicho on 13 January 2009
Max King of the Wild said:
Magera said:
Max King of the Wild said:
johnsobas said:
Max King of the Wild said:
TacoBoy49 said:
I think your mistaking LBP with a nds game like Imagine: teacher. LBPcannot have profited on 250k in sales. At least on this planet.

 

 your wrong about everything else in this thread so why wouldnt you be wrong about this? Are you goin for a record for how many times a user has been wrong in a thread? 25 developers dont require much money.

 

no, if a game like LBP profited at 250k everyone would be making video games because it's pretty damn easy to get a game like that to sell 250k.  Not only that but the advertising budget for LBP must have been massive.  If Sony actually made that much profit on their software then they must be losing an absolutely massive amount of money on the hardware.

 

 Most studios have more than 25 employees. PD = 110

mike_intellivision - estimate - 2007... yup good enough for me. and im sure halo had nothing to do with that. or uncharted. which I expect uncharted 2 development cost to drasticly decrease. I read "average cost of HD games in 2007 were 15million" so let me change this part. "I'm sure Gran Turismo 5, Killzone 2, Uncharted, FF13(which was still exclusive in 07) and MGS4 have nothing to do with that" which most of those games are 1st party,

27 dollars goes to developers 250k tmes 27 = 6,750,000 divide that by 25 = 270k per person for the game... doesnt sound reasonable for a very small studio with noprevious work to pay tha much?

10 + 10 +10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 100 = 200/11 = 18

^ that does not mean that most of the numbers were 18.

I think you've got your understanding a little mucked up.

1st of all, LBP would not have made a profit off of 250K units sold.  Games that cost $5,000,000 to make back in the PS2/GC/xbox generation (Big budget) required 250K units to sell before making a profit...  Average costing PS3/360 games are bound to be more towards the 400/500K units sold before hitting the profit mark (with Wii being the acception for having PS2/GC/Xbox development costs).

2.  A full priced $60 sale does not = $60 profit for Sony ------ 250K units x $60 = $15,000,000 Revenue at retail.
---Firstly, you need to take out any Tax, take out any Retail profit, Take out shipping and packaging expenses, costs of production of physical media (Blu Ray Disk) etc.  How much money did they loose on the World Wide recall back before it got released?  How many games where destroyed?  (When they had to remove those lyrics?  - they also would have had to destroy every blu-ray disk that had already been pressed).

3.  How long was LBP in development for?  How much did the staff get paid PER YEAR, that LBP was in development?  How much more did the Boss' and managers get paid?  Just because the developer has a staff of 25 employees does not mean that they did not pay contractors for their work... sound engeniers, outsourced 3d artists... etc.  In otherwords do you even know how much LBP actually cost???!@!#!@# 

 4.  and lastly for the big one,  you do realise that even your basic advertising costs MILLIONS of dollars?  Hell, even 1 x 30 second add at a superbowl game costs more then $1,000,000... and that's just for 1 x 30 second add.  Now of course LBP wasn't advertised at the superbowl but perhaps knowing now that even just 1 x 30 second add can cost over 1 million dollars in certain situations, this might just give you a little perspective of how much advertising does cost. not to mention world wide advertising.  Here in Australia, 1 x 30 second add at 11pm at night costs AUS$10,000... if you want 1 x 30 Add during mainstreem veiwing your looking towards the AUS $100,000 mark.  Suprise, it costs money to advertise!

 

I mean, don't get me wronge, LBP is an awsome game and is for sure generating a profit for Sony, but to the contrary of just 250K sales, I think it's more like 400-500K before they started making profit over their costs.

1/2. no really... it probablly made profit for MM at 250k. I know 60 dollars doesnt go to the developers but I know 27 dollars does. With my statistics Killzone2 would need to sell 1.3 million copies to become profitable. That sounds about right to me. But since Killzone has a bigger staff and has been around longer I'd say they get paid more than MM and bump it to closer to 1.5 million copies...

LBP - was far from big budget and again, with my math it would have been about 7million game. 2 million dollars more than a big budget ps2 game. again that sounds about right.

3. this is MM's first game. Average developer gets paid 100k a year. But for a first time studio I doubt they are paying average salary. Think of it this way, you own a ma and pa resturaunt. you hire people. Will you start them off at 9 dollars an hour that giodanos starts people or would you pay minimum wage at 7.50? smart answer min wage.

4. sony covered adverising

you over estimate the 400/500k number. that would be closer to the profit line for a game like... WKC.

So you are talking about Media Molecule would be profit from 250K sales, not Sony? Based on the thread, I thought everyone was discussing how Sony will profit from LBP sales, not Media Molecule.

Good discussion but maybe I just missed the whole point.

 



MikeB predicts that the PS3 will sell about 140 million units by the end of 2016 and triple the amount of 360s in the long run.

Max King of the Wild on 13 January 2009
saicho said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Magera said:
Max King of the Wild said:
johnsobas said:
Max King of the Wild said:
TacoBoy49 said:
I think your mistaking LBP with a nds game like Imagine: teacher. LBPcannot have profited on 250k in sales. At least on this planet.

 

 your wrong about everything else in this thread so why wouldnt you be wrong about this? Are you goin for a record for how many times a user has been wrong in a thread? 25 developers dont require much money.

 

no, if a game like LBP profited at 250k everyone would be making video games because it's pretty damn easy to get a game like that to sell 250k.  Not only that but the advertising budget for LBP must have been massive.  If Sony actually made that much profit on their software then they must be losing an absolutely massive amount of money on the hardware.

 

 Most studios have more than 25 employees. PD = 110

mike_intellivision - estimate - 2007... yup good enough for me. and im sure halo had nothing to do with that. or uncharted. which I expect uncharted 2 development cost to drasticly decrease. I read "average cost of HD games in 2007 were 15million" so let me change this part. "I'm sure Gran Turismo 5, Killzone 2, Uncharted, FF13(which was still exclusive in 07) and MGS4 have nothing to do with that" which most of those games are 1st party,

27 dollars goes to developers 250k tmes 27 = 6,750,000 divide that by 25 = 270k per person for the game... doesnt sound reasonable for a very small studio with noprevious work to pay tha much?

10 + 10 +10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 100 = 200/11 = 18

^ that does not mean that most of the numbers were 18.

I think you've got your understanding a little mucked up.

1st of all, LBP would not have made a profit off of 250K units sold.  Games that cost $5,000,000 to make back in the PS2/GC/xbox generation (Big budget) required 250K units to sell before making a profit...  Average costing PS3/360 games are bound to be more towards the 400/500K units sold before hitting the profit mark (with Wii being the acception for having PS2/GC/Xbox development costs).

2.  A full priced $60 sale does not = $60 profit for Sony ------ 250K units x $60 = $15,000,000 Revenue at retail.
---Firstly, you need to take out any Tax, take out any Retail profit, Take out shipping and packaging expenses, costs of production of physical media (Blu Ray Disk) etc.  How much money did they loose on the World Wide recall back before it got released?  How many games where destroyed?  (When they had to remove those lyrics?  - they also would have had to destroy every blu-ray disk that had already been pressed).

3.  How long was LBP in development for?  How much did the staff get paid PER YEAR, that LBP was in development?  How much more did the Boss' and managers get paid?  Just because the developer has a staff of 25 employees does not mean that they did not pay contractors for their work... sound engeniers, outsourced 3d artists... etc.  In otherwords do you even know how much LBP actually cost???!@!#!@# 

 4.  and lastly for the big one,  you do realise that even your basic advertising costs MILLIONS of dollars?  Hell, even 1 x 30 second add at a superbowl game costs more then $1,000,000... and that's just for 1 x 30 second add.  Now of course LBP wasn't advertised at the superbowl but perhaps knowing now that even just 1 x 30 second add can cost over 1 million dollars in certain situations, this might just give you a little perspective of how much advertising does cost. not to mention world wide advertising.  Here in Australia, 1 x 30 second add at 11pm at night costs AUS$10,000... if you want 1 x 30 Add during mainstreem veiwing your looking towards the AUS $100,000 mark.  Suprise, it costs money to advertise!

 

I mean, don't get me wronge, LBP is an awsome game and is for sure generating a profit for Sony, but to the contrary of just 250K sales, I think it's more like 400-500K before they started making profit over their costs.

1/2. no really... it probablly made profit for MM at 250k. I know 60 dollars doesnt go to the developers but I know 27 dollars does. With my statistics Killzone2 would need to sell 1.3 million copies to become profitable. That sounds about right to me. But since Killzone has a bigger staff and has been around longer I'd say they get paid more than MM and bump it to closer to 1.5 million copies...

LBP - was far from big budget and again, with my math it would have been about 7million game. 2 million dollars more than a big budget ps2 game. again that sounds about right.

3. this is MM's first game. Average developer gets paid 100k a year. But for a first time studio I doubt they are paying average salary. Think of it this way, you own a ma and pa resturaunt. you hire people. Will you start them off at 9 dollars an hour that giodanos starts people or would you pay minimum wage at 7.50? smart answer min wage.

4. sony covered adverising

you over estimate the 400/500k number. that would be closer to the profit line for a game like... WKC.

So you are talking about Media Molecule would be profit from 250K sales, not Sony? Based on the thread, I thought everyone was discussing how Sony will profit from LBP sales, not Media Molecule.

Good discussion but maybe I just missed the whole point.

 

The dude was talking about first party sony games. So if it were first party sony would have profitted from it way before 250k considering theyd be developer and publisher. I assumed he meant the makers of the game.

Sony would get what... 10 dollars per game for being publisher? 2.5 million for 250k copies... Yeah that could possibly be profitable. I know UK had a million dollar ad budget. I know US didnt advetise LBP except in their Ps3 ads. Which showed other games so that wouldnt count towrds LBP adverts but Ps3 ones... I dont think Japan had a big one but I know it was advertised and that just leaves mainland Europe. and I dont know how much they spent there.



Sqrl on 13 January 2009

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saicho on 13 January 2009
Max King of the Wild said:
saicho said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Magera said:
Max King of the Wild said:
johnsobas said:
Max King of the Wild said:
TacoBoy49 said:
I think your mistaking LBP with a nds game like Imagine: teacher. LBPcannot have profited on 250k in sales. At least on this planet.

 

 your wrong about everything else in this thread so why wouldnt you be wrong about this? Are you goin for a record for how many times a user has been wrong in a thread? 25 developers dont require much money.

 

no, if a game like LBP profited at 250k everyone would be making video games because it's pretty damn easy to get a game like that to sell 250k.  Not only that but the advertising budget for LBP must have been massive.  If Sony actually made that much profit on their software then they must be losing an absolutely massive amount of money on the hardware.

 

 Most studios have more than 25 employees. PD = 110

mike_intellivision - estimate - 2007... yup good enough for me. and im sure halo had nothing to do with that. or uncharted. which I expect uncharted 2 development cost to drasticly decrease. I read "average cost of HD games in 2007 were 15million" so let me change this part. "I'm sure Gran Turismo 5, Killzone 2, Uncharted, FF13(which was still exclusive in 07) and MGS4 have nothing to do with that" which most of those games are 1st party,

27 dollars goes to developers 250k tmes 27 = 6,750,000 divide that by 25 = 270k per person for the game... doesnt sound reasonable for a very small studio with noprevious work to pay tha much?

10 + 10 +10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 100 = 200/11 = 18

^ that does not mean that most of the numbers were 18.

I think you've got your understanding a little mucked up.

1st of all, LBP would not have made a profit off of 250K units sold.  Games that cost $5,000,000 to make back in the PS2/GC/xbox generation (Big budget) required 250K units to sell before making a profit...  Average costing PS3/360 games are bound to be more towards the 400/500K units sold before hitting the profit mark (with Wii being the acception for having PS2/GC/Xbox development costs).

2.  A full priced $60 sale does not = $60 profit for Sony ------ 250K units x $60 = $15,000,000 Revenue at retail.
---Firstly, you need to take out any Tax, take out any Retail profit, Take out shipping and packaging expenses, costs of production of physical media (Blu Ray Disk) etc.  How much money did they loose on the World Wide recall back before it got released?  How many games where destroyed?  (When they had to remove those lyrics?  - they also would have had to destroy every blu-ray disk that had already been pressed).

3.  How long was LBP in development for?  How much did the staff get paid PER YEAR, that LBP was in development?  How much more did the Boss' and managers get paid?  Just because the developer has a staff of 25 employees does not mean that they did not pay contractors for their work... sound engeniers, outsourced 3d artists... etc.  In otherwords do you even know how much LBP actually cost???!@!#!@# 

 4.  and lastly for the big one,  you do realise that even your basic advertising costs MILLIONS of dollars?  Hell, even 1 x 30 second add at a superbowl game costs more then $1,000,000... and that's just for 1 x 30 second add.  Now of course LBP wasn't advertised at the superbowl but perhaps knowing now that even just 1 x 30 second add can cost over 1 million dollars in certain situations, this might just give you a little perspective of how much advertising does cost. not to mention world wide advertising.  Here in Australia, 1 x 30 second add at 11pm at night costs AUS$10,000... if you want 1 x 30 Add during mainstreem veiwing your looking towards the AUS $100,000 mark.  Suprise, it costs money to advertise!

 

I mean, don't get me wronge, LBP is an awsome game and is for sure generating a profit for Sony, but to the contrary of just 250K sales, I think it's more like 400-500K before they started making profit over their costs.

1/2. no really... it probablly made profit for MM at 250k. I know 60 dollars doesnt go to the developers but I know 27 dollars does. With my statistics Killzone2 would need to sell 1.3 million copies to become profitable. That sounds about right to me. But since Killzone has a bigger staff and has been around longer I'd say they get paid more than MM and bump it to closer to 1.5 million copies...

LBP - was far from big budget and again, with my math it would have been about 7million game. 2 million dollars more than a big budget ps2 game. again that sounds about right.

3. this is MM's first game. Average developer gets paid 100k a year. But for a first time studio I doubt they are paying average salary. Think of it this way, you own a ma and pa resturaunt. you hire people. Will you start them off at 9 dollars an hour that giodanos starts people or would you pay minimum wage at 7.50? smart answer min wage.

4. sony covered adverising

you over estimate the 400/500k number. that would be closer to the profit line for a game like... WKC.

So you are talking about Media Molecule would be profit from 250K sales, not Sony? Based on the thread, I thought everyone was discussing how Sony will profit from LBP sales, not Media Molecule.

Good discussion but maybe I just missed the whole point.

 

The dude was talking about first party sony games. So if it were first party sony would have profitted from it way before 250k considering theyd be developer and publisher.

 

In such case, wouldn't the advertising and outsourcing be cost for Sony if Sony covers them?

Based on your estimate, 250K * 27 = 6.75 millions which would cover the assumed 7 million developer cost for LBP. However, advertising and outsourcing are not included.

 



MikeB predicts that the PS3 will sell about 140 million units by the end of 2016 and triple the amount of 360s in the long run.