Paraphrased developer: "If I could have done it all over again, when I was new to the industry I wouldn't have focused so much on the technology, I would have spent the time making my games fun"

Some time ago on www.beyond3d.com

once again, is there a need to spend alot on the wii? why would a developer risk it when they don't have to spend so much to make a profit?

and let me state, they will make tons of games for the wii, but it wont match the HD marketing and budget beacuse they need it to survive unlike the wii.

Legend11 said: c0rd said: Legend11 said: c0rd said: Legend11 said: Grampy, On a console where Carnival Games, Game Party, Deca Sports, Smarty Pants, and others trounce most third-party hardcore games on the system why in your opinion should they take more risk, spend more money, and go against what is selling for third-parties on it? On a system where Wii Sports and Wii Play completely dominate sales and are very likely the reason why many people buy the console why do you feel developers should instead make games that the majority never bought the console for?   Mario Kart Wii Nintendo     13.42m     Super Smash Bros. Brawl Nintendo     8.26m     Super Mario Galaxy Nintendo     7.81m   The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Nintendo   5.07m   Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock RedOctane   3.86m   Super Paper Mario Nintendo   2.66m   Sonic and the Secret Rings Sega 2.04m These are far from "mini-game" games, and they have done very well. There just aren't that many other popular games on the system like this, so the ones that have sold very high (2mil+) are few in number. Nintendo games are an exception on the Wii (do you think if another company made a Kart game for the Wii that it would have over 12 million in sales)?  Do you think if EA or Ubisoft released Wii Music that it would be over 2 million right now?  Also correct me if I'm wrong but I think this "open letter" was to third-parties, but if it was meant for Nintendo then my bad.  And when looking at third-party games the number of casual hits outnumber the hardcore ones. Your original comment said the main reason people buy the system was for things like Wii Sports, Wii Play, so there may not be an audience for core titles. My response was to show you otherwise - that games do not have to be mini-game collections in order to sell. The fact that the games are made by Nintendo has nothing to do with the argument. As for "casual" hits outnumbering the "hardcore" hits, that's obvious - the former games far outnumber the latter. It's not as if there were many potential "hardcore" million sellers released for the Wii as it is. Would No More Heroes or Zack & Wiki be million sellers on the HD consoles? How about Okami? Oh, wait - that game already flopped on the PS2. I'm just asking why third-parties should make the effort when stuff like the games I mentioned have sold millions on the system?  As for Zack & Wiki and No More Heroes, which cost more money to make, those games or the casual ones I mentioned?  I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe the best way to tap into the Wii is with casual games.  I also think that Guitar Hero 3 for example was perfect for multi-platform for it's casual appeal.

Legend, you just created a double standard. Guitar Hero no doubt cost more than No More Heroes and Zack and Wiki (probably combined) yet it sold millions. It is also more expensive for consumers than No More Heroes and Zack and Wiki. So the difference is?

My vote is on marketing. I see Guitar Hero commercials often. Did anyone anywhere EVER see a commercial for No More Heroes? 

Legend11 said: c0rd said: Legend11 said: c0rd said: Legend11 said: Grampy, On a console where Carnival Games, Game Party, Deca Sports, Smarty Pants, and others trounce most third-party hardcore games on the system why in your opinion should they take more risk, spend more money, and go against what is selling for third-parties on it? On a system where Wii Sports and Wii Play completely dominate sales and are very likely the reason why many people buy the console why do you feel developers should instead make games that the majority never bought the console for? Mario Kart Wii Nintendo 13.42m Super Smash Bros. Brawl Nintendo 8.26m Super Mario Galaxy Nintendo 7.81m The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Nintendo 5.07m Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock RedOctane 3.86m Super Paper Mario Nintendo 2.66m Sonic and the Secret Rings Sega 2.04m These are far from "mini-game" games, and they have done very well. There just aren't that many other popular games on the system like this, so the ones that have sold very high (2mil+) are few in number. Nintendo games are an exception on the Wii (do you think if another company made a Kart game for the Wii that it would have over 12 million in sales)?  Do you think if EA or Ubisoft released Wii Music that it would be over 2 million right now?  Also correct me if I'm wrong but I think this "open letter" was to third-parties, but if it was meant for Nintendo then my bad.  And when looking at third-party games the number of casual hits outnumber the hardcore ones. Your original comment said the main reason people buy the system was for things like Wii Sports, Wii Play, so there may not be an audience for core titles. My response was to show you otherwise - that games do not have to be mini-game collections in order to sell. The fact that the games are made by Nintendo has nothing to do with the argument. As for "casual" hits outnumbering the "hardcore" hits, that's obvious - the former games far outnumber the latter. It's not as if there were many potential "hardcore" million sellers released for the Wii as it is. Would No More Heroes or Zack & Wiki be million sellers on the HD consoles? How about Okami? Oh, wait - that game already flopped on the PS2. I'm just asking why third-parties should make the effort when stuff like the games I mentioned have sold millions on the system?  As for Zack & Wiki and No More Heroes, which cost more money to make, those games or the casual ones I mentioned?  I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe the best way to tap into the Wii is with casual games.  I also think that Guitar Hero 3 for example was perfect for multi-platform for it's casual appeal.

@legend and psrock- What we r trying to say is the wii is for the mass market that includes you. So making games for the "hardcore" and "casual" is a must because that includes teen males and their moms. Everyone has a mother thats why wii fit sales so well. Look at all the people you see under forums that own a wii. Do you honestly think those are the kids that own a wii?

A lot is going on with the OP that I can see where it's coming from but people who believe they know what I like and speak for me just don't sit well with me... but that's just my take.

I like point 11 though, test, test and test. I remember watching Shigeru testing Wii Music, that was fun, I've never had that much fun watching others have fun, I guess I felt like a real father or something along those lines.

Anyway, the thread went side ways, and to hit the nail on the head, those who believe a narrative is anything short of guided progression are may be missing some grey matter.

Video games aren't books, I was talking to this young'n who struck up the conversation when he saw me picking up Tomb Raider: Underworld for the Wii, he said. "That game is bugged," I replied: "Well I hope I don't have a bugged copy." purchased the game and then he asked me if my girl friend forced the Wii on me... At that point I figured that I guess I hadn't seen everything yet.

The conversation lead into him arguing that the NES (his first system) was released in 1990 we were actually talking about Donkey Kong, fortunately I had my itouch and we sufed the web and got the real date. I asked him why would he believe such a thing? He responded "Well that's when I got my NES" (Thought for a second.) "It wasn't released just because I got it then!"

Good times...

Oh, Hi Legend XD

Very well written as usual Grampy.

I agree wholeheartedly with everything except

"but if your game doesn't work well with MC or you're not willing to take time to make it work well; then maybe your game doesn't really belong on the Wii"

Citing Fire Emblem and Smash Bros Brawl as two games that dont use MC (well, Brawl does a tiny bit) but that I'm still glad are in the Wii's library

I think Sega is probably the only developer following all of these. They offer
Good minigame compilations (M & S @ the olympic games)
Light Gun Shooters (Hotd)
One of the best looking games on the Wii (The Conduit)
The goriest game on the Wii (Mad World)

That's some nice variety

EA deserve an honourable mention, and some Ubisoft studios also deserve praise (the others deserve *censored for violence*

GhaudePhaede010 said: Legend11 said: c0rd said: Legend11 said: c0rd said: Legend11 said: Grampy, On a console where Carnival Games, Game Party, Deca Sports, Smarty Pants, and others trounce most third-party hardcore games on the system why in your opinion should they take more risk, spend more money, and go against what is selling for third-parties on it? On a system where Wii Sports and Wii Play completely dominate sales and are very likely the reason why many people buy the console why do you feel developers should instead make games that the majority never bought the console for? Mario Kart Wii Nintendo 13.42m Super Smash Bros. Brawl Nintendo 8.26m Super Mario Galaxy Nintendo 7.81m The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Nintendo 5.07m Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock RedOctane 3.86m Super Paper Mario Nintendo 2.66m Sonic and the Secret Rings Sega 2.04m These are far from "mini-game" games, and they have done very well. There just aren't that many other popular games on the system like this, so the ones that have sold very high (2mil+) are few in number. Nintendo games are an exception on the Wii (do you think if another company made a Kart game for the Wii that it would have over 12 million in sales)?  Do you think if EA or Ubisoft released Wii Music that it would be over 2 million right now?  Also correct me if I'm wrong but I think this "open letter" was to third-parties, but if it was meant for Nintendo then my bad.  And when looking at third-party games the number of casual hits outnumber the hardcore ones. Your original comment said the main reason people buy the system was for things like Wii Sports, Wii Play, so there may not be an audience for core titles. My response was to show you otherwise - that games do not have to be mini-game collections in order to sell. The fact that the games are made by Nintendo has nothing to do with the argument. As for "casual" hits outnumbering the "hardcore" hits, that's obvious - the former games far outnumber the latter. It's not as if there were many potential "hardcore" million sellers released for the Wii as it is. Would No More Heroes or Zack & Wiki be million sellers on the HD consoles? How about Okami? Oh, wait - that game already flopped on the PS2. I'm just asking why third-parties should make the effort when stuff like the games I mentioned have sold millions on the system?  As for Zack & Wiki and No More Heroes, which cost more money to make, those games or the casual ones I mentioned?  I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe the best way to tap into the Wii is with casual games.  I also think that Guitar Hero 3 for example was perfect for multi-platform for it's casual appeal.   Legend, you just created a double standard. Guitar Hero no doubt cost more than No More Heroes and Zack and Wiki (probably combined) yet it sold millions. It is also more expensive for consumers than No More Heroes and Zack and Wiki. So the difference is? My vote is on marketing. I see Guitar Hero commercials often. Did anyone anywhere EVER see a commercial for No More Heroes?

Guitar Hero is just a port so I would be surprised if it cost more than those two games which were built from the ground up for the Wii.

Legend11 said: GhaudePhaede010 said: Legend11 said: c0rd said: Legend11 said: c0rd said:   Mario Kart Wii Nintendo     13.42m     Super Smash Bros. Brawl Nintendo     8.26m     Super Mario Galaxy Nintendo     7.81m   The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Nintendo   5.07m   Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock RedOctane   3.86m   Super Paper Mario Nintendo   2.66m   Sonic and the Secret Rings Sega 2.04m     Guitar Hero is just a port so I would be surprised if it cost more than those two games which were built from the ground up for the Wii.

 Lol. Nice try.

 It's a great thread and in an ideal it'd all happen, but yeah one things I've alwyas wondered.

 One thing i've always wondered is if the 500k games that slowly creep there with high legs are these big money making gems people suggest? From my experience in the UK game retailers are very very resiliant when taking stock orders from a third party on the Wii. It's why even big branded names like COD:WAW were hard to find on shelves, and Zack and Wiki was practically non-exsistant in stores (Except in Europe).

 Point being, these games normally get price cuts (In the UK at least) earlyish on in their lives. Once retail cuts the price, you can be sure they're paying less from the publisher. How much this disrupts revenue depends game-to-game, but I'd imagine these games making 500k arn't as big success as people make out - albeit they do prove a market is there.

 I think it's one of the biggest problems for third parties though, and will become worse once the Wii's preowned market expands and the 'new' gamers are educated to the whole exchanging games buying cheaper second hand. The games would no doubt generally be profitable, I'm just curious if anyone else can expand on this? Or if I'm just reading into things too much? Or what it's like in the USA?

 Also someone said that Boom Blox was doing quite well or something. I think that's be a huge flop for EA, while developing a game where you throw a ball at blox isn't going to break the bank, EA sank alot of money into marketing and had the Spielberg name endorsing it, I'm sure they were expecting far greater sales. Now I just see tons of copies of the game lined up at my local GameStation, reduced from £39.99 to £14.99... a classic example of why retailers are so resiliant on taking up Wii orders.

the fact that you guys feels the wii deserve the big games is funny. This is business and  thanks to the market, the wii has shown us that small budget games can do pretty well on it.

The wii will sell as much or more than the Ps2, but its no PS2, AND NEVER will. The ps2 got all the big games, all of them.