By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sales - "The PS3 can't sell software" WKC

Max King of the Wild on 01 January 2009
Plaupius said:

@Max King of the Wild

What you are not understanding is that, in reality, GeoW cost way more to make than what 250k sales bring in. However, the engine development costs were written off to another projects, probably a wholly separate engine project the costs of which were not accounted in the GoW project. The fact is that we do not know the real cost of making GeoW, and it would be hard to determine anyway since the engine is done for licensing, not only for GeoW. Any game developer developing a similar game in-house would have to develop the engine and add the costs to that game, resulting in much higher costs. To put it in another way, it would be nigh impossible to develop a GeoW-clone so that it would break even with 250k sales.

 

 No I understand that the engine work didnt cost diddly because they used the unreal engine. What you dont realize is even though those cost were written off the other games still don't surpass the cost of Gears... so why should it possibly being more to make matter when it would only matter if gears was the one cheaper than most games and that money could possibly make it more.... think about it. If gears cost 10 million or 30million it doesnt matter if most games cost less then 10 million.



Around the Network
Kasz216 on 01 January 2009
Max King of the Wild said:
Plaupius said:

@Max King of the Wild

What you are not understanding is that, in reality, GeoW cost way more to make than what 250k sales bring in. However, the engine development costs were written off to another projects, probably a wholly separate engine project the costs of which were not accounted in the GoW project. The fact is that we do not know the real cost of making GeoW, and it would be hard to determine anyway since the engine is done for licensing, not only for GeoW. Any game developer developing a similar game in-house would have to develop the engine and add the costs to that game, resulting in much higher costs. To put it in another way, it would be nigh impossible to develop a GeoW-clone so that it would break even with 250k sales.

 

 No I understand that the engine work didnt cost diddly because they used the unreal engine. What you dont realize is even though those cost were written off the other games still don't surpass the cost of Gears... so why should it possibly being more to make matter when it would only matter if gears was the one cheaper than most games and that money could possibly make it more.... think about it. If gears cost 10 million or 30million it doesnt matter if most games cost less then 10 million.

10 million is actually pretty par for an HD game.

Regardless, are you sure that part of that 10 million wasn't written off?  Or really all?

 



Plaupius on 02 January 2009
Kasz216 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Plaupius said:

@Max King of the Wild

What you are not understanding is that, in reality, GeoW cost way more to make than what 250k sales bring in. However, the engine development costs were written off to another projects, probably a wholly separate engine project the costs of which were not accounted in the GoW project. The fact is that we do not know the real cost of making GeoW, and it would be hard to determine anyway since the engine is done for licensing, not only for GeoW. Any game developer developing a similar game in-house would have to develop the engine and add the costs to that game, resulting in much higher costs. To put it in another way, it would be nigh impossible to develop a GeoW-clone so that it would break even with 250k sales.

 

 No I understand that the engine work didnt cost diddly because they used the unreal engine. What you dont realize is even though those cost were written off the other games still don't surpass the cost of Gears... so why should it possibly being more to make matter when it would only matter if gears was the one cheaper than most games and that money could possibly make it more.... think about it. If gears cost 10 million or 30million it doesnt matter if most games cost less then 10 million.

10 million is actually pretty par for an HD game.

Regardless, are you sure that part of that 10 million wasn't written off?  Or really all?

 

Yes, that's my impression as well. Anyway, using 10 million and 250k sales would mean a $40 profit per game sold for the developer which, with absolute certainty, is not what the developers get. I'm under the impression that not even studios who publish their own games get that much. So the reality is that 250k sales won't be enough to turn a profit for the majority of HD games.



Max King of the Wild on 02 January 2009
Plaupius said:
Kasz216 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Plaupius said:

@Max King of the Wild

What you are not understanding is that, in reality, GeoW cost way more to make than what 250k sales bring in. However, the engine development costs were written off to another projects, probably a wholly separate engine project the costs of which were not accounted in the GoW project. The fact is that we do not know the real cost of making GeoW, and it would be hard to determine anyway since the engine is done for licensing, not only for GeoW. Any game developer developing a similar game in-house would have to develop the engine and add the costs to that game, resulting in much higher costs. To put it in another way, it would be nigh impossible to develop a GeoW-clone so that it would break even with 250k sales.

 

 No I understand that the engine work didnt cost diddly because they used the unreal engine. What you dont realize is even though those cost were written off the other games still don't surpass the cost of Gears... so why should it possibly being more to make matter when it would only matter if gears was the one cheaper than most games and that money could possibly make it more.... think about it. If gears cost 10 million or 30million it doesnt matter if most games cost less then 10 million.

10 million is actually pretty par for an HD game.

Regardless, are you sure that part of that 10 million wasn't written off?  Or really all?

 

Yes, that's my impression as well. Anyway, using 10 million and 250k sales would mean a $40 profit per game sold for the developer which, with absolute certainty, is not what the developers get. I'm under the impression that not even studios who publish their own games get that much. So the reality is that 250k sales won't be enough to turn a profit for the majority of HD games.

 

 Well you are under the wrong impression then. Yes I was wrong. It wasn't 40 dollars it was 30 dollars so more like 325k sales. WOW! 75k! Whoopdy doo! big difference /sarcasim Anyway reality is that games don't have as big of budgets as Epic games with gears of war. Seriously look at Epics past games. Look how successful they were. Getting the green light on getting that kind of money would be easy for them. Most games break even at the 250k-500k mark.



Kasz216 on 02 January 2009
Max King of the Wild said:
Plaupius said:
Kasz216 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Plaupius said:

@Max King of the Wild

What you are not understanding is that, in reality, GeoW cost way more to make than what 250k sales bring in. However, the engine development costs were written off to another projects, probably a wholly separate engine project the costs of which were not accounted in the GoW project. The fact is that we do not know the real cost of making GeoW, and it would be hard to determine anyway since the engine is done for licensing, not only for GeoW. Any game developer developing a similar game in-house would have to develop the engine and add the costs to that game, resulting in much higher costs. To put it in another way, it would be nigh impossible to develop a GeoW-clone so that it would break even with 250k sales.

 

 No I understand that the engine work didnt cost diddly because they used the unreal engine. What you dont realize is even though those cost were written off the other games still don't surpass the cost of Gears... so why should it possibly being more to make matter when it would only matter if gears was the one cheaper than most games and that money could possibly make it more.... think about it. If gears cost 10 million or 30million it doesnt matter if most games cost less then 10 million.

10 million is actually pretty par for an HD game.

Regardless, are you sure that part of that 10 million wasn't written off?  Or really all?

 

Yes, that's my impression as well. Anyway, using 10 million and 250k sales would mean a $40 profit per game sold for the developer which, with absolute certainty, is not what the developers get. I'm under the impression that not even studios who publish their own games get that much. So the reality is that 250k sales won't be enough to turn a profit for the majority of HD games.

 

 Well you are under the wrong impression then. Yes I was wrong. It wasn't 40 dollars it was 30 dollars so more like 325k sales. WOW! 75k! Whoopdy doo! big difference /sarcasim Anyway reality is that games don't have as big of budgets as Epic games with gears of war. Seriously look at Epics past games. Look how successful they were. Getting the green light on getting that kind of money would be easy for them. Most games break even at the 250k-500k mark.

Not according to the experts they don't.

Like i said Gears of War only "Broke even" after 250K

because most of that 10 million was written off.

Gears of War broke even without even selling a copy actually, because it was such a good advertisment for the Unreal Engine.

 



Around the Network
Max King of the Wild on 02 January 2009
Kasz216 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Plaupius said:
Kasz216 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Plaupius said:

@Max King of the Wild

What you are not understanding is that, in reality, GeoW cost way more to make than what 250k sales bring in. However, the engine development costs were written off to another projects, probably a wholly separate engine project the costs of which were not accounted in the GoW project. The fact is that we do not know the real cost of making GeoW, and it would be hard to determine anyway since the engine is done for licensing, not only for GeoW. Any game developer developing a similar game in-house would have to develop the engine and add the costs to that game, resulting in much higher costs. To put it in another way, it would be nigh impossible to develop a GeoW-clone so that it would break even with 250k sales.

 

 No I understand that the engine work didnt cost diddly because they used the unreal engine. What you dont realize is even though those cost were written off the other games still don't surpass the cost of Gears... so why should it possibly being more to make matter when it would only matter if gears was the one cheaper than most games and that money could possibly make it more.... think about it. If gears cost 10 million or 30million it doesnt matter if most games cost less then 10 million.

10 million is actually pretty par for an HD game.

Regardless, are you sure that part of that 10 million wasn't written off?  Or really all?

 

Yes, that's my impression as well. Anyway, using 10 million and 250k sales would mean a $40 profit per game sold for the developer which, with absolute certainty, is not what the developers get. I'm under the impression that not even studios who publish their own games get that much. So the reality is that 250k sales won't be enough to turn a profit for the majority of HD games.

 

 Well you are under the wrong impression then. Yes I was wrong. It wasn't 40 dollars it was 30 dollars so more like 325k sales. WOW! 75k! Whoopdy doo! big difference /sarcasim Anyway reality is that games don't have as big of budgets as Epic games with gears of war. Seriously look at Epics past games. Look how successful they were. Getting the green light on getting that kind of money would be easy for them. Most games break even at the 250k-500k mark.

Not according to the experts they don't.

Like i said Gears of War only "Broke even" after 250K

because most of that 10 million was written off.

Gears of War broke even without even selling a copy actually, because it was such a good advertisment for the Unreal Engine.

 

twesterm always talks about how games usually don't sell more than 300k copies. That leads me to belive most games break profit before that point.

 



Kasz216 on 02 January 2009
Max King of the Wild said:
Kasz216 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Plaupius said:
Kasz216 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Plaupius said:

@Max King of the Wild

What you are not understanding is that, in reality, GeoW cost way more to make than what 250k sales bring in. However, the engine development costs were written off to another projects, probably a wholly separate engine project the costs of which were not accounted in the GoW project. The fact is that we do not know the real cost of making GeoW, and it would be hard to determine anyway since the engine is done for licensing, not only for GeoW. Any game developer developing a similar game in-house would have to develop the engine and add the costs to that game, resulting in much higher costs. To put it in another way, it would be nigh impossible to develop a GeoW-clone so that it would break even with 250k sales.

 

 No I understand that the engine work didnt cost diddly because they used the unreal engine. What you dont realize is even though those cost were written off the other games still don't surpass the cost of Gears... so why should it possibly being more to make matter when it would only matter if gears was the one cheaper than most games and that money could possibly make it more.... think about it. If gears cost 10 million or 30million it doesnt matter if most games cost less then 10 million.

10 million is actually pretty par for an HD game.

Regardless, are you sure that part of that 10 million wasn't written off?  Or really all?

 

Yes, that's my impression as well. Anyway, using 10 million and 250k sales would mean a $40 profit per game sold for the developer which, with absolute certainty, is not what the developers get. I'm under the impression that not even studios who publish their own games get that much. So the reality is that 250k sales won't be enough to turn a profit for the majority of HD games.

 

 Well you are under the wrong impression then. Yes I was wrong. It wasn't 40 dollars it was 30 dollars so more like 325k sales. WOW! 75k! Whoopdy doo! big difference /sarcasim Anyway reality is that games don't have as big of budgets as Epic games with gears of war. Seriously look at Epics past games. Look how successful they were. Getting the green light on getting that kind of money would be easy for them. Most games break even at the 250k-500k mark.

Not according to the experts they don't.

Like i said Gears of War only "Broke even" after 250K

because most of that 10 million was written off.

Gears of War broke even without even selling a copy actually, because it was such a good advertisment for the Unreal Engine.

 

twesterm always talks about how games usually don't sell more than 300k copies. That leads me to belive most games break profit before that point.

 

http://kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/namco-ps3-games-must-sell-500k-for-profit-218215.php

This was specifically for Ridge Racer and Gundam Crossfire.

Not exactly two of the best looking or high quality PS3 games out there.  They were actually both pretty shoddy.

Cost less then Gears yet needs much more to make a profit?  Why?

Because Gears totally wrote off the expenses.



Max King of the Wild on 02 January 2009
Kasz216 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Kasz216 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Plaupius said:
Kasz216 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Plaupius said:

@Max King of the Wild

What you are not understanding is that, in reality, GeoW cost way more to make than what 250k sales bring in. However, the engine development costs were written off to another projects, probably a wholly separate engine project the costs of which were not accounted in the GoW project. The fact is that we do not know the real cost of making GeoW, and it would be hard to determine anyway since the engine is done for licensing, not only for GeoW. Any game developer developing a similar game in-house would have to develop the engine and add the costs to that game, resulting in much higher costs. To put it in another way, it would be nigh impossible to develop a GeoW-clone so that it would break even with 250k sales.

No I understand that the engine work didnt cost diddly because they used the unreal engine. What you dont realize is even though those cost were written off the other games still don't surpass the cost of Gears... so why should it possibly being more to make matter when it would only matter if gears was the one cheaper than most games and that money could possibly make it more.... think about it. If gears cost 10 million or 30million it doesnt matter if most games cost less then 10 million.

10 million is actually pretty par for an HD game.

Regardless, are you sure that part of that 10 million wasn't written off?  Or really all?

Yes, that's my impression as well. Anyway, using 10 million and 250k sales would mean a $40 profit per game sold for the developer which, with absolute certainty, is not what the developers get. I'm under the impression that not even studios who publish their own games get that much. So the reality is that 250k sales won't be enough to turn a profit for the majority of HD games.

Well you are under the wrong impression then. Yes I was wrong. It wasn't 40 dollars it was 30 dollars so more like 325k sales. WOW! 75k! Whoopdy doo! big difference /sarcasim Anyway reality is that games don't have as big of budgets as Epic games with gears of war. Seriously look at Epics past games. Look how successful they were. Getting the green light on getting that kind of money would be easy for them. Most games break even at the 250k-500k mark.

Not according to the experts they don't.

Like i said Gears of War only "Broke even" after 250K

because most of that 10 million was written off.

Gears of War broke even without even selling a copy actually, because it was such a good advertisment for the Unreal Engine.

twesterm always talks about how games usually don't sell more than 300k copies. That leads me to belive most games break profit before that point.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/namco-ps3-games-must-sell-500k-for-profit-218215.php

This was specifically for Ridge Racer and Gundam Crossfire.

Not exactly two of the best looking or high quality PS3 games out there.  They were actually both pretty shoddy.

Cost less then Gears yet needs much more to make a profit?  Why?

Because Gears totally wrote off the expenses.

 

 do the math. 27 dollars goes to the development team. 8.6 million / 27 = 320k. to break even now the dude probablly rounded.

you are overexaggerating, He probablly wanted 500k copies to bring them the profit they wanted (which would almost be twice as much as cost of the game) no company just wants 1 dollar profit.



Kasz216 on 02 January 2009
Max King of the Wild said:
Kasz216 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Kasz216 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Plaupius said:
Kasz216 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Plaupius said:

@Max King of the Wild

What you are not understanding is that, in reality, GeoW cost way more to make than what 250k sales bring in. However, the engine development costs were written off to another projects, probably a wholly separate engine project the costs of which were not accounted in the GoW project. The fact is that we do not know the real cost of making GeoW, and it would be hard to determine anyway since the engine is done for licensing, not only for GeoW. Any game developer developing a similar game in-house would have to develop the engine and add the costs to that game, resulting in much higher costs. To put it in another way, it would be nigh impossible to develop a GeoW-clone so that it would break even with 250k sales.

No I understand that the engine work didnt cost diddly because they used the unreal engine. What you dont realize is even though those cost were written off the other games still don't surpass the cost of Gears... so why should it possibly being more to make matter when it would only matter if gears was the one cheaper than most games and that money could possibly make it more.... think about it. If gears cost 10 million or 30million it doesnt matter if most games cost less then 10 million.

10 million is actually pretty par for an HD game.

Regardless, are you sure that part of that 10 million wasn't written off?  Or really all?

Yes, that's my impression as well. Anyway, using 10 million and 250k sales would mean a $40 profit per game sold for the developer which, with absolute certainty, is not what the developers get. I'm under the impression that not even studios who publish their own games get that much. So the reality is that 250k sales won't be enough to turn a profit for the majority of HD games.

Well you are under the wrong impression then. Yes I was wrong. It wasn't 40 dollars it was 30 dollars so more like 325k sales. WOW! 75k! Whoopdy doo! big difference /sarcasim Anyway reality is that games don't have as big of budgets as Epic games with gears of war. Seriously look at Epics past games. Look how successful they were. Getting the green light on getting that kind of money would be easy for them. Most games break even at the 250k-500k mark.

Not according to the experts they don't.

Like i said Gears of War only "Broke even" after 250K

because most of that 10 million was written off.

Gears of War broke even without even selling a copy actually, because it was such a good advertisment for the Unreal Engine.

twesterm always talks about how games usually don't sell more than 300k copies. That leads me to belive most games break profit before that point.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/namco-ps3-games-must-sell-500k-for-profit-218215.php

This was specifically for Ridge Racer and Gundam Crossfire.

Not exactly two of the best looking or high quality PS3 games out there.  They were actually both pretty shoddy.

Cost less then Gears yet needs much more to make a profit?  Why?

Because Gears totally wrote off the expenses.

 

 do the math. 27 dollars goes to the development team. 8.6 million / 27 = 320k. to break even now the dude probablly rounded.

you are overexaggerating, He probablly wanted 500k copies to bring them the profit they wanted (which would almost be twice as much as cost of the game) no company just wants 1 dollar profit.

Exact quote.

``We have to sell at least 500,000 copies per title worldwide to make a profit on PlayStation 3 games"

As in... 500,000 bare minimium... for their games with the least effort.


Plaupius on 02 January 2009
Max King of the Wild said:
Kasz216 said:
Max King of the Wild said:

twesterm always talks about how games usually don't sell more than 300k copies. That leads me to belive most games break profit before that point.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/namco-ps3-games-must-sell-500k-for-profit-218215.php

This was specifically for Ridge Racer and Gundam Crossfire.

Not exactly two of the best looking or high quality PS3 games out there.  They were actually both pretty shoddy.

Cost less then Gears yet needs much more to make a profit?  Why?

Because Gears totally wrote off the expenses.

 

 do the math. 27 dollars goes to the development team. 8.6 million / 27 = 320k. to break even now the dude probablly rounded.

you are overexaggerating, He probablly wanted 500k copies to bring them the profit they wanted (which would almost be twice as much as cost of the game) no company just wants 1 dollar profit.

First off, I'd honestly like to know where you get that 27 dollars figure. I mean, I am really interested in knowing what exactly is the profit margin structure of a Wii/PS3/X360 game, so if you have any in depth knowledge, please share it.

Second, it might have been the case before that most games made a profit, but I have some doubts that's the case regarding the HD development. The financial reports of studios and publishers seem to indicate that most HD games are anything but goldmines, which leads me to believe that your assumption is incorrect. Kasz already showed you the quotes where the president of Namco stated they need to sell at least 500 000 copies to make a profit. He also stated that creating the graphics for a PS3 game costs about 1 billion Yen, around 11 million dollars with current rates. If that's the case, then the total cost of a game must be much higher than the 10 million that you assume is more than what most games cost. Since Mr. Takasu is only talking about graphics, there shouldn't be too much of a difference between the PS3 and X360. So, again, the alleged cost of Gears development is not something to compare other games to.