finalsquall said: robjoh said: finalsquall said: The Wii won't win... It doesn't appeal to everyone. The PS does... It always has. At the end of the day the ps3 will have casuals (downloadable Mini games, singstar, buzz etc), kids (new mmo, eye toy, singstar, kiddy games etc) medium players (platformers, racing cars games everyday games, sports) and Harcore - ff13,mgs, HS, Drakes,kz2,lair) etc etc etc The wii appeals to casuals, hardcore and kiddies - no middle man. xbox 360 - hardcore fps teens :( This is only my opinion... not that it counts. I can't see Nintendo winning long term. maybe but numbers, but not by sheer desire to have one. Everyone know most ppl will have a Wii as a second console. I know I might for my daughter. how do you think PS3 will win the casuals when the ratio of casual games released on the Wii is higher then PS3 and the price difference is huge? medium player... plattformers hmm no plattformers? The best 3D sonic for ages, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Paper Mario, Dewys. racing, here I actualy agreed those racing games that exsist is very much asrcade, excite truck and nitrobike and that is more or less everything. hardcore: Metroid, Battalion Wars, Fire Emblem. Not as much as the others but the games exsist. A question how can you NOT win by numbers? Isn't that the whole idea about sales numbers. Sheer desire something that is depending on the person buying the product is it not? Well let us just say that I rather go with the numbers when I decide who won this gen.   Casual players = short term/every now and then. Casuals play games as a fad. Come on ppl you know what a casual gamer is. Tell me honestly! How many of these "Casual Players" will become core players? Not many! Casuals do not make up the bulk of the market for sales in consoles. If a casual buys a console. It will prolly be used for a few months then left there neglected. If that is the image the Wii wants then so be it. A console needs to be versatile: It needs to first cater to the hardcore players as they are the foundation. Then core player who plays alot of the time, then the kids, and lastly the casuals. Casuals at the bottom... Why would you want the main audience to be casuals. Wow we can sell alot of consoles to ppl who only want to play our crap games for a few months. *Think Mcfly Think* Over the past 10 yrs, Sony has proven they know the market. They made all types of games: eye toy, sing star, buzz,GH, jak and dexter, crash, ratchet and clank, GT, mgs, ff and more. It's variety. Also, how many ppl have a ps2. How many casuals play the ps2? How many casuals are still buying the ps2? More than the gc and n64 put together. Ppl stay with who they know and Trust (waits for snickers). another thing I have realized. Selling the ps3 at a high price is brilliant. Ppl love to put down the price, but when the price comes down ppl are like wow I'm getting one... it's cheaper now! Why? because everyone wants the unaffordable. Ppl focus on the price, but once they can attain it they seems to want it (human nature to want the biggest and best :P). So in essence ppl like the Wii because it is attainable,cheap and gimickly. Once ps3 comes down in price, then the wii will look more like a fad. BR will win HD wars and ppl will want a ps3 to watch BR. If you think BR is shit, then you have watched one on a hd tv. I hate dvd's now. I can't watch them. So therefore in my view ps3 will win and then the 360 and lastly the wii :( Sorry for the verbal diarrhea.

The reason why Sony had succes with the PS1 is because they appealed to the casual gamers, they wanted to increase the market, and they had to attract the persons who didn't play videogames, just what does Nintendo actually.
And don't think that the people is so faithful to a brand name, if that would be the case the N64 would have been a great success.

 

I think you have to understand that the market is changing, what the people wanted yesterday is not what they'll want tomorrow, it was the case when Nintendo arrived in the market, and it was the same when Sony arrived too. The theory of cycles. The people doesn't like Wii, they adore it. It's just the beginning of a new way in videogames, and thus the beginning of a new request from the public, and Sony (and Microsoft) doesn't respond to this request.

 

 

(Excuse me for my english, I'm french and I try to make some efforts)

Italic = finalsqual

Ordinary = me  

Casual players = short term/every now and then.  Casuals play games as a fad. Come on ppl you know what a casual gamer is. Tell me honestly! How many of these "Casual Players" will become core players?  Not many! Casuals do not make up the bulk of the market for sales in consoles.  If a casual buys a console. It will prolly be used for a few months then left there neglected.  If that is the image the Wii wants then so be it.

I more or less thinks that casual gamers will buy a consol and mayby buy one game a year (madden, singstar, need for speed, Wii Sport etc) then use it for a month. If 10% of the casual gamers becomes a core gamer Nintendo has won. It is simply as that.

The casual gamers is, at least in number of consols, actualy the bulk. The hardcore is in minority, a minority that buys a lot of games, but not hardware. The possibility if you can win a lot of casual gamers their huge numbers can mean high software sales.

I am also pretty sure that there is PS2:s that is collecting dust today that hasn't hurt the PS2 image so I am pretty sure that it wont hurt Wii either.

A console needs to be versatile: It needs to first cater to the hardcore players as they are the foundation.  Then core player who plays alot of the time, then the kids, and lastly the casuals.  Casuals at the bottom... Why would you want the main audience to be casuals. Wow we can sell alot of consoles to ppl who only want to play our crap games for a few months. *Think Mcfly Think*

There is actualy no need to win the hardcore gamers if you can win the casual gamers and sell you product with profit from the start. To win the hardcore gamers is a bonus but it is an old idea that you have to go through a number of steps before you can reach the mass market casual gamers.

What sky rocket the DS was not an hardcore game, it was the touch generation games brain training and Nintendodogs did a lot and still does. Of course it might not be the game you like but they are still selling. Accorsding to your logic PSP should burn down the chart with their heavy focus on hardcore games, but the truth is that it might sell hardware but it is moving less software than Nintendo DS.

Over the past 10 yrs, Sony has proven they know the market.  They made all types of games: eye toy, sing star, buzz,GH, jak and dexter, crash, ratchet and clank, GT, mgs, ff  and more. It's variety.  Also, how many ppl have a ps2. How many casuals play the ps2? How many casuals are still buying the ps2?  More than the gc and n64 put together. Ppl stay with who they know and Trust (waits for snickers).

Yes and before that Nintendo had the NES and SNES, then Nintendo did their big screw up with the N64. Now PS3 seems to do almost the same thing. Nintendo decided to do what any "small" company should have done. They created a new focus on the market, suddently we had Nintendo winning their home ground (Japan) for the first time since Sony entered the gaming market. First with the DS, that is dominating the charts then now with Wii. Every manufactorer can make a mistake for Sony it was lake of Japan centric games.

another thing I have realized. Selling the ps3 at a high price is brilliant.  Ppl love to put down the price, but when the price comes down ppl are like wow I'm getting one... it's cheaper now!  Why?  because everyone wants the unaffordable.  Ppl focus on the price, but once they can attain it they seems to want it (human nature to want the biggest and best :P). 

This must be the most stupid thing I have ever heard, this might be a godd idea if Sony made 100 USD in profit on each consol but they are selling it with a loss for a price that to few is intressted in paying. Even the price drop didn't bring it even close to the top numbers shown by the PS2.  

So in essence ppl like the Wii because it is attainable,cheap and gimickly. Once ps3 comes down in price, then the wii will look more like a fad. BR will win HD wars and ppl will want a ps3 to watch BR. If you think BR is shit, then you have watched one on a hd tv.  I hate dvd's now. I can't watch them.  So therefore in my view ps3 will win and then the 360 and lastly the wii :(

That cheap and gimickly thing will have shipped 22 millions in march 08. Nintendo shipped less gamecubes than that, so to say that xbox360 will beat the Wii might be a little bit to easy don't you think? But most important Sony has already lost Japan to Nintendo. Their is no game on the radar for PS3 that can change that not even Final Fantasy. When that games arrives somewhere late 2008 early 2009 we will be talking about a 3 million+ lead (if not 4 millions). If Nintendo wins Japan that could mean a 20 millions alone. Their is no way in hell that xbox360 will be able to pass the Wii WW then.

When BR becomes mainstream people will purchase the much cheaper blu-ray players before a PS3. I garantee that. 

@ robjoh

Fair Enuf, Lets just wait and see. I predict that the Wii will slow down next yr in sales and the ps3 will rise. Like I said, I can't see the Wii sustain it's sales long term. Sadly the Wii is just a gimmick!

finalsquall said: @ robjoh Fair Enuf, Lets just wait and see. I predict that the DS will slow down next yr in sales and the PSP will rise. Like I said, I can't see the DS sustain it's sales long term. Sadly the DS is just a gimmick!

fixed...or at least just pointing out that we have had the same argument before.

EDIT:

The thing with this argumentation is that it sounds more like whichfull thinking than anything else.

*yawn* we will see ...

robjoh just let it go, talking to sony fanboys is like talking to brick. Just look at all those smart sentences

 

Only ppl I know who buy Nintendo are kids --- never heard that one from a sony fanboy before

* The Wii is a joke – no kidding

* It's a fad that will slow down soon --- I completely agree, sometime around 2011

The wii appeals to casuals, hardcore and kiddies - no middle man. – What?

They made all types of games: eye toy, sing star, buzz, GH, jak and dexter, crash, ratchet and clank, GT, mgs, ff and more. ---Thank you for enlightening me, I never knew that sony is making Guitar Hero, Metal Gear and Final Fantasy

another thing I have realized. Selling the ps3 at a high price is brilliant. --- absolutely, just look at the results

Once ps3 comes down in price, then the wii will look more like a fad. ---but why would it come down isn’t the high price a brilliant idea

* Wii is just a gimmick --- another new one

So its a joke, gimmick and fad all in one, I find that a very good deal. And oh you dont sound like a stereotypical sony fanboy at all

robjoh said: finalsquall said: @ robjoh Fair Enuf, Lets just wait and see. I predict that the DS will slow down next yr in sales and the PSP will rise. Like I said, I can't see the DS sustain it's sales long term. Sadly the DS is just a gimmick! fixed...or at least just pointing out that we have had the same argument before. EDIT: The thing with this argumentation is that it sounds more like whichfull thinking than anything else.

 

Man get over yourself :P and don't change what I put down as that is my statement. You think because the Wii sells so much that it's going to win.  My Friend remember this childhood story- the tortoise and the Hare.  Wii can keep running but he ain't gunna win the race.   Gunna be a sad day when the Wii fan boys  lose this war.  PS3 ftw... I'll send my condolence's when you sad about the Wii.  I say around 12 mil we will start to see the decline in Wii sales. 

finalsquall said:   Man get over yourself :P and don't change what I put down as that is my statement. You think because the Wii sells so much that it's going to win. My Friend remember this childhood story- the tortoise and the Hare. Wii can keep running but he ain't gunna win the race. Gunna be a sad day when the Wii fan boys lose this war. PS3 ftw... I'll send my condolence's when you sad about the Wii. I say around 12 mil we will start to see the decline in Wii sales.

 What would be your new guess if it doesn't stop selling like hotcakes at 12 mil? 15 mil?

finalsquall said: Fair Enuf, Lets just wait and see. I predict that the Wii will slow down next yr in sales and the ps3 will rise. Like I said, I can't see the Wii sustain it's sales long term. Sadly the Wii is just a gimmick!

Let's be logic for a secund : if Nintendo reaches its objectives for current fiscal year (ie : 22M shipped by March 2008), there is no way you could be right. You can't deny that 3rd party support would become so strong that things would be done.

Why do i post that ? we had that "discussion" a billion time since January 2007 ... 

I think that Nintendo will win in Japan by a wide margin this generation. Other then GT5 and FFXIII there actually nothing that can really be consider as a killer app for the ps3 there. On the 2 last generations Nintendo just couldn't compete against Sony because they didn't have the quantity and the diversity of games that Sony had. This generation is different because:

1. It cost much less to make wii game then ps3 game
2. Wii userbase is bigger then PS3
3. Wii game attach rate is greater then PS3

So smaller company will probably prefer to make games for the Wii then the PS3 because it's less risky and casual gamers on Wii are less demanding then the hardcore gamers on PS3.

But in the US I think that it will be really close race between the 3 consoles. PS3 and the 360 got some really big games coming there as well as Nintendo.