Film critics may not always agree with popular sentiment, but they are nothing like game critics.  I don't know any film critics that only like "hardcore films" and insult the rest.

I don't have problems with understanding.  It seemed to me that you were making a straw-man argument that all reviewers that aren't bitter casual-hating Nintendo-haters are actually rabid Nintendo fanboys.  I may have been wrong.  When I called you out on it, instead of telling me that's not what you meant, you insulted my understanding and called me a troll.  I think that's very cute considering that it only took you 400 posts to become one of the biggest trolls at this site, and I'll be ignoring your posts from now on.

I'm not sure how familiar with the site you are, but we can go through your post history.  I can see that you hate Nintendo and everything they stand for.  You have been trolling Nintendo in 12 of your last 15 posts.  Just like game reviewers, you are becoming a broken record constantly repeating the same Nintendo trolling tactics, and I, for one, will stop paying attention.

Good day and good luck.

 QFT

Seriously the Cinemia in games is OK but it can get out of hand like MGS4 did. The writing and plot in almost all games are sophmoric at best adnnd definitely secondary to any game I have played. That said Cinema style works well for some games and should not be discounted.

But just ask some Sony fanboys about the White Knight review. See what happens the shoe changes fast.

Actually, you do seem like you have problems with understanding. I never said that you are a troll, I just asked that if it was the case. You could have replied just that you aren't trolling, yet you choose to literally call me a troll.

Also if it seems like I am making some "straw-man" argument, you express your thoughts in some other manner than using words like "bitter hardcore fanboy hater". What kind of response are you looking with those words? Oh, I know.

Anyway, I am reporting you.

Take a look at the top 50 best sellers and see how many games are story based. Next to none.

Games aren't about storytelling. That's for films and books.

Where's the story in Hide n Seek or Monopoly or Tag?

Games are not sport. That's something the "hardcore" need to wake up to. Achievements are great when done properly instead of just forcing you to play a game to make you feel aware of yourself or whatever TF.

Oooh trophies.

MGS series has sold 20 something million. I think a considerable amount of people agree with the sentiment that video games using todays technological tools are and should be capable of delivering an interactive movie experience. We're finally at the dawn of being able to play movies and not just watch them. MGS, indigo prophecy, xenogears and now heavy rain are all merging cinematic and gameplay experiences.

I don't want to "play" a movie just as I don't want to "play" a song. I want to watch a movie, listen to a song and play a game.

I don't want to "play" a movie of Ocarina of time I want to play Ocarina of Time.

So yeah, fuck the minority.

This will be my final posting on this thread and I will simultaneously post it on the counter thread created in response. Unfortunately it is becoming too personal for my taste and that was not my intent. But fortunately some of you have posted very nice illustrations of some assumptions and prejudices that I personally find rather bizarre and perhaps just a bit disingenuous. I have removed the poster’s names on purpose because my argument is not with them but with a mindset they have apparently bought into:

1.     People who find traditional controls [too difficult] dont deserve to play videogames. Learn it or leave it. Why should I be forced to play dumbed down and simplified games while the newbies arent forced to learn the hardcore way?
I beg your pardon, when exactly did video games become a secret society with an initiation? I thought they were commercial products that anyone could buy and play if they chose to. And how exactly did “your group” become the selection committee. And no, I have no more wish to force you to play in any way whatsoever. You can play with a Kazoo and a Moonpie for all I care. Please extend the same courtesy to me. You are just another person playing video games not the Gaming Inquisition charged with keeping out heretics.

2.     (a) Most hardcore gamers and gaming journalists dont hate the wii , they just ignore it. No amount of sales can make these people care about the wii.
(b) No, the real battle this gen is between PS360. HD-gamers ignore the Wii.
First, ignoring someone or something because it is “different” is just a slightly more subtle form of showing contempt, but I could probably learn to live with it, if that were true. I just spent an enlightening few hours reviewing the forum archives and oddly enough this wasn’t always true. Before Wii sales starting soaring out of reach and again during the launch of the various “Wii killers” like MSG4 and GTA4, some of these same individuals seem to have found the topic a lot more interesting. If I were cynical, I would have to suspect that this lack of interest is in fact, more a lost of hope, so maybe if we ignore it, it will go away. But I’m not cynical so I will take their disinterest at their word and merely wonder why they find these threads so hard to ignore.

3.     I personally think the Ninty strategy is a dangerous strategy. Is gaming (the wii way) a fad? will all those 'new' gamers become bored as quickly as they became interested? who knows? but its possible.
Is it really your job to protect the industry?  Even so, increasing console sales, increasing software sales, a very decent attach rate just a few tenths below the PS3, the number of gold, platinum and double platinum games don’t show any red flags of impending ennui. We do have fairly sound evidence, both within and outside this forum of lapsed gamers retained or brought back to the fold by the new controls.

4.     The Wii became a clown at a grown-ups party, because it wasn't trying to fit into the party, but bring new people to the party.
Once again, we find that we have some secret bar to reach, some litmus test to pass. “They are “grown-ups” and we are “clowns” and worse yet, we actually invited “outsiders” to this “private grown up party.” Wow, I just wish they had given us the paper work when we plunked our money down so we could have applied or pledged or whatever it is one does. Does this mean I don’t get to learn the secret handshake?

5.     If you really like the platform, make it your personal crusade to see that general consumers buy the quality titles instead of the budget dreck, which is very likely to disappoint.
Oh My! Now let’s see it I have it all: I have to give up my clown suit, grow up, wait to be invited to the private party, learn a control system that I hate and have no use for to prove I’m worthy, correct Nintendo’s dangerous ways and now in addition I have to make it my personal crusade to tell people what they should buy. My Bad! And I thought I could just buy a console, a few games and actually just have fun.

6.     And accept that the gaming press is unlikely to ever warm to the Wii as a platform because of the change in direction the Nintendo market has made.
Yep, guess so. I must respect their right to denigrate and/or ignore 49%+ or 63%+ (depending on whether you include the DS) and still be regarded as serious professional “journalists”.  Even when the official mouthpiece for the largest gaming retailer puts so many negative and snide comments in their Wii and DS newsletter that I had to send it to junk mail. I’m OK with this one actually. It doesn’t even lower my opinion of them much over that which I had of them before the Wii was even invented. Of course when (as I believe will happen) motion control becomes standard, they will lead the parade with all the enthusiasm of reformed whores and swear it was all their idea.

7.     I dont see why Wii is so popular.....I played it and the control is garbage and very small, the sensor barely registers accurate movements, and the games on Wii (besides Mario, Zelda & SSBB), generally are crap (ex: Wii Sports, Play, Fit, Music = shovelware).
Well, damn, that settles it, I’ll sell mine tomorrow. Thanks for pointing out all the things I haven’t noticed after playing it since week one. Now can I tell you what I don’t like about yours? …No, I won’t because you like it apparently and that’s should be enough. By the way the way, the often overused buzzword shovelware is almost exclusively reserved for poorly ported games and rehashed compilations. Whether you happen to like them or not, Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Fit and Wii Music are definitely original, perhaps even revolutionary IPs and can no way be seen as shovelware.

8.     Nah, there are so much games that won't benefit at all from waggle. Motion controls are good for minigames and that's about it. Maybe next gen motion controls will be good enough for something.
Nothing makes me more suspicious that someone is basing their conclusion on little practical experience than the term “waggle”.  I own 52 games for the Wii and I haven’t been able to waggle my way through a single one of them. I disagree about the usefulness of motion control but even if you’re right, the next generation is only a few months away. Keep in mind that while  Vectrex in 1982 was the first analog controller, Nintendo popularized the idea and they might have as good an idea as anyone when its time has passed.

9.     [on a suggestion that motion controls might catch on after motion plus]  god i hope not.... i would have to stop gaming... i dont want to have to figure out what screw ball motion the dev thought up for various actions, where opening a door is not an obvious motion..... ill go back and play my rts tbs games.... and classic console motion controls have not as of yet lived up to the promis
I just loved this one from a few days ago. Here a gamer used to the often arcane combinations of buttons and stick combinations of the traditional controller is worried about opening a door after motion+. Actually one of the specific examples of motion+ with one to one and rotational control is that opening a door would consist of reaching out with your had and turning the knob. If that’s too tough I couldn’t help imagining the poor guy stuck in the same room is whole life.

So all I’m saying is that I’m sorry, If you are in fact the appointed guardians of the game with the power to select those worthy of playing and dictating the correct and acceptable methods and standards of play; then I need to see your badge. Otherwise I ‘ll feel free to play what , where, when, on what and however I damn well please. If you really can’t help looking down your nose at me for that, so be it. By the way, you may want to trim those nose hairs.

The word "should" right there is where your entire argument falls apart.  The idea that people should make interactive movies instead of games is just as bad as the idea that companies should stop making traditional games and only make casual games.

Luckily there are tons of giant corporations who want my money and tons of giant corporations who want your money, so we'll both get the games we want.  We'll have traditional games, casual games, and interactive movies pretty much forever.

While you're at it, define "good".

It all just comes back to wanting to be unique while belonging to something at the same time, doesn't it? A lot of these Wii dissenters grew up with gaming. A fair few started with the NES. I'm getting this distinct impression that they have an illusion of "gamer" somehow being a status symbol, something to be proud of, something which "non-gamers" can never hope to achieve. And really, that's quite sad, when you think about it.

Playing video games doesn't accomplish much of anything that's meaningful, unless you count occasionally improving hand-eye coordination. You can come up with all the sob stories you want about how some kid somewhere had his blindness cured by playing video games, or how somebody who was injured badly regained full use of their arms that way, but those people are the exception to the rule. What kind of badge of pride is it to be able to say "I am a gamer"? What prestige can you possibly believe the title of "gamer" really carries? If anything, "gamer" painted you in a black light in the eyes of most people until just very recently, and that's only changing at all because of the Wii and DS.

So I say this to those who want to believe that being a "gamer" is somehow sacred, that the Wii and DS are "destroying gaming": let it go. Just let it go. They're games. They always have been, and they always will be, diversions and nothing else. You can gussy them up all you want and call them art, but it won't actually change anything. Painting a pig brown and calling it a stallion does not make it a stallion. It's still a pig, and that's all it ever will be, and there's nothing wrong with that as long as you accept it. Games will always be games, even if you want people to call them art, and there's nothing wrong with that, either.