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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Nintendo and the Gaming Press: IS INTOLERANCE EVIDENCE OF FEAR & PANIC

Khuutra on 27 December 2008
ryu1976 said:

I agree with part of what you're saying, but you miss my point.  I played Boom Blox with family and friends last evening.  It's a great Wii game, and a good example at aiming at the casual audience.  But, weeks back I played something called, perhaps, 'Summer Games' at my in-laws.

The second title is aimed at a broader audience, and that is where its Wii merits end.  Unfortunately, it is not alone.  And, the number of these inferior titles are increasing on the system.  The danger I see is a historical one, as I stated, from the eighties.

Like the Wii today, the Atari 2600 and its games sold in great numbers.  Somewhere in its life-cycle developers misused the public's trust in what an Atari game was.  Shovelware was published left and right, eventually eroding consumer trust, and among other forces bringing the console to an ugly end.

Claiming that 'because a game sells well it is good' simply is not adequate.  And, unwillingness to fairly critique a title because it is 'casual' will be bad for all gamers in the long-term.

My point is that we need high quality games no matter what the console or audience.  Sub-standard software in the name of casualness (and publisher greed) will damage gaming.

 

To my understanding, this isn't what happened. It wasn't an erosion of consumer trust by virtue of crappy games, it was a flood of crappy games so huge that no one in particular bought any one title. Companies were making so many games so fast that they could not sell, and that caused the cash.

The Wii's software sales patterns (and general profitability for third parties) suggests that that is not what is happening here.



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Khuutra on 27 December 2008
The Ghost of RubangB said:

So there are only rabid ninty-fanboys and hardcore bitter fanboy haters?

You don't see a possibility of a game critic actually being educated and informed before they write?

That's how film critics do it.  They actually go to school.

I love this idea, I do, and I would love for it to be acceptable, but studying video games as art is only something that designers do right now. The gaming press would have to go though a video game education at something like Digipen in order to appreciate games as art.

Also I'd prefer them to be educated in literature, too, so they at least understand different schools of criticism.



mike_intellivision on 27 December 2008

It is funny.

At first, the gaming press thought the Wii was innovative. Now it is child-like.

For example, in 2006, Wii games pretty much dominated X-Play's end of year awards. In 2008, Sessler is complaining about how No More Heroes really did not fit on the Wii.

Wii has gone for a more general approach. Remember its 2008 E3 presser was meant for general media, not gaming media -- and drew the latter's wrath.

I think some in the gaming press are starting to act like their counterparts covering other forms of entertainment -- thinking that their opinion makes things and that they are the story.

But the Wii is the story. And it will continue to be the story.

And for the doubters -- we are not headed for another crash because of the Wii, not in spite of it. The companies that are making games are at least trying to make games. There are no dog food companies entering the fray.

Mike from Morgantown



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

NNID: Mike_INTV
The Ghost of RubangB on 27 December 2008
McStormy1 said:
BornFirst. said:
McStormy1 said:
People who find traditional controls dont deserve to play videogames. Learn it or leave it. Why should I be forced to play dumbed down and simplified games while the newbies arent forced to learn the hardcore way?

Wow very selfless and mature! good on you

Why should I be selfless and mature as opposed to casual players? Why should I make the sacrifice and not them? Just like in anything in the world, the individual wants the rewards for themselves -not for others at their own expense. Casual players are fine with me as a coexisting entity, but the wii library has shown an exclusions of epic, heavily story based games and titles deep custimization and gameplay options when compared to HD systems.

Because the majority of gamers don't want to make any "sacrifice" to have fun.

There ARE still "hardcore" games for you to compete in.  You can fight for high scores, speedruns, and frag counts, etc.  Why would these go away?

If this is all too much for you, and you're just way too hardcore to survive in this new gaming world, get good at StarCraft and move to Korea.



twitter.com/evaneldeneller

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McStormy1 on 27 December 2008
The Ghost of RubangB said:
McStormy1 said:
BornFirst. said:
McStormy1 said:
People who find traditional controls dont deserve to play videogames. Learn it or leave it. Why should I be forced to play dumbed down and simplified games while the newbies arent forced to learn the hardcore way?

Wow very selfless and mature! good on you

Why should I be selfless and mature as opposed to casual players? Why should I make the sacrifice and not them? Just like in anything in the world, the individual wants the rewards for themselves -not for others at their own expense. Casual players are fine with me as a coexisting entity, but the wii library has shown an exclusions of epic, heavily story based games and titles deep custimization and gameplay options when compared to HD systems.

Because the majority of gamers don't want to make any "sacrifice" to have fun.

There ARE still "hardcore" games for you to compete in.  You can fight for high scores, speedruns, and frag counts, etc.  Why would these go away?

If this is all too much for you, and you're just way too hardcore to survive in this new gaming world, get good at StarCraft and move to Korea.

 

@bolded: So you're basically saying "fuck the minority?

The issue is the lack of epic, thought and story heavy games or franchises on the Wii. It seems casual gamers do not enjoy storytelling or cinema and this is something that will stunt the growth of the industry to becoming something beyond a mere "play thing", a "toy".



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Khuutra on 27 December 2008
McStormy1 said:

@bolded: So you're basically saying "fuck the minority?

The issue is the lack of epic, thought and story heavy games or franchises on the Wii. It seems casual gamers do not enjoy storytelling or cinema and this is something that will stunt the growth of the industry to becoming something beyond a mere "play thing", a "toy".

This is ridiculous. Mainstream gamers love cinema, they just like it in, you know, movies. Not games.



The Ghost of RubangB on 27 December 2008
Khuutra said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:

So there are only rabid ninty-fanboys and hardcore bitter fanboy haters?

You don't see a possibility of a game critic actually being educated and informed before they write?

That's how film critics do it.  They actually go to school.

I love this idea, I do, and I would love for it to be acceptable, but studying video games as art is only something that designers do right now. The gaming press would have to go though a video game education at something like Digipen in order to appreciate games as art.

Also I'd prefer them to be educated in literature, too, so they at least understand different schools of criticism.

I saw you making zings in another thread about how we don't need to worry about critical theory because the medium's too young, and it cracked me up.

What did you study or what are you studying in school?



twitter.com/evaneldeneller

Sunday Fundays

Esa-Petteri on 27 December 2008
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Esa-Petteri said:
Naum said:
--OkeyDokey-- said:
What do you guys have against reviewers all of a sudden?
I can't think of any Metacritic scores for Wii games that I really disagree with besides Corruption being way too low (it's a 95+ game, I reckon) and Boom Blox being way too high.

 

The thing is is that most Wii games who do get reviewed is often made by people who have no interest in the game from the start, just look at Wii music for example.

So it would be better if wii games would be reviewed by rabid ninty-fanboys? What is your problem if there are people who just aren't interested in every piece of crap what nintendo throws?

 

So there are only rabid ninty-fanboys and hardcore bitter fanboy haters?

You don't see a possibility of a game critic actually being educated and informed before they write?

That's how film critics do it. They actually go to school.

No, I asked that would he prefer if wii games were reviewed by fanboys. Do you have problems with understanding or do you just troll?

Yeah, film critics are somewhat educated. That is why they (usually) don't like the crap which happens to be popular for some odd reason.

 

Oh and you really should stop with those comments like "hc gamers have been living 15 years on their mom's basements". You really, really should. Really. I would say something but it would get me banned. :)

 



The Ghost of RubangB on 27 December 2008
McStormy1 said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
McStormy1 said:
BornFirst. said:
McStormy1 said:
People who find traditional controls dont deserve to play videogames. Learn it or leave it. Why should I be forced to play dumbed down and simplified games while the newbies arent forced to learn the hardcore way?

Wow very selfless and mature! good on you

Why should I be selfless and mature as opposed to casual players? Why should I make the sacrifice and not them? Just like in anything in the world, the individual wants the rewards for themselves -not for others at their own expense. Casual players are fine with me as a coexisting entity, but the wii library has shown an exclusions of epic, heavily story based games and titles deep custimization and gameplay options when compared to HD systems.

Because the majority of gamers don't want to make any "sacrifice" to have fun.

There ARE still "hardcore" games for you to compete in.  You can fight for high scores, speedruns, and frag counts, etc.  Why would these go away?

If this is all too much for you, and you're just way too hardcore to survive in this new gaming world, get good at StarCraft and move to Korea.

 

@bolded: So you're basically saying "fuck the minority?

The issue is the lack of epic, thought and story heavy games or franchises on the Wii. It seems casual gamers do not enjoy storytelling or cinema and this is something that will stunt the growth of the industry to becoming something beyond a mere "play thing", a "toy".

I'm not saying fuck the minority.  I'm saying that the majority don't share your set of values you use to compare games, AND THAT'S OKAY.  I'm not attacking anybody except immature reviewers (just about all of them).  It's totally fine if there are different kinds of gamers at the same time.  Or have you always puked at the sight of an old woman playing Snood or Tetris or Brain Age, and called them a philistine who doesn't know the elite gaming bliss of Halo 3 with a headset on, that only a sophisticated 1337 gamer could appreciate and understand?

Funny you should mention storytelling.  I love storytelling and cinema and I'm a film major in my last semester.  It's just that I can count the games I've played with great stories on my fingers.  What great cinematic games with amazing stories have you been playing that I've been missing out on?

Meanwhile we get reviewers pretending to be an authority on the subject saying crazy shit like "GTA4 has Oscar-worthy dialogue," which is an insult to games, films, and dialogue.  It's hilarious.



twitter.com/evaneldeneller

Sunday Fundays

Lolcislaw on 27 December 2008

Backlash against innovation is a normal practice troughout decades it always happen, and Wii has become a victim of it, some people blindely criticise it without even trying to enjoy it or trying to understand it, just for the sake of it.