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Forums - Sales Discussion - Western Publishers are struggling

UK is quickly becoming a much bigger and more important market.



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11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
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naznatips said:
Ari_Gold said:
@ Montana... EA's big yearly franchises grew old ( Medal of Honor, Battlefield, Burnout, Need for Speed), hence they need to make original IPS, most of them have been pretty good actually, i loved skate, mirror edge and dead space. Activision got lucky with Guitar Hero and Call of Duty 4. But they'll eventually go the way EA is currently going, and start to make new IPs.

New EA > Old EA

The console market is now all but meaningless to Activision.  In their last quarter their financials were 58% of their profit was from PC alone (42% of that from WoW, 16% from other sales). Followed by 13% on Wii, 10% on DS, and PS3 and 360 fighting over the last pathetic little 19%.  If you think either of those consoles mean jack in this industry anymore you are nuts.  PS3 and 360 could drop dead tomorrow and it wouldn't affect Activision much at all.  EA, however, would instantly go out of business.  EA will die long before Activision has to change anything.

Well, that's Post blizzard right?

Pre-blizzard, if PS360 died then it would really hurt the business.

If anything, It's Blizzard that would be keeping Activision alive if PS360 dropped dead.  Correct?  Since Activision relies heavily on Call of Duty and GH, the former which sold almost nothing on Wii, and the latter which sold pretty well on Wii.



psrock said:
UK is quickly becoming a much bigger and more important market.

US developers better not start making games purely for the UK market

 



naznatips said:

It's not as simple as "let's just make everything on Wii and it will be all sunshine and daisies" either.  World at War bombed on Wii.  Someday it may recover sales, but it will take a long time, and shooters will never sell as well on Wii as they do on the HD consoles and PC.  And here we have the problem: Western developers don't know how to make anything else anymore.  If it's not a shooter it's a bloody action game.  If it's not a bloody action game it's a bloody action RPG.  If it's not a bloody action RPG it bombs (Poor Prince of Persia). 

Publishers are screwed. The developers they employ can only make a certain style of game that happens to cost out the ass and not sell enough to make up for it.  How can they scrap their whole staff and start over?  What can they really do?  You talk about Japanese publishers having no influence, but you're completely wrong.  Japanese publishers are the ones who will still be around in a decade. What good does it do you to sell millions now if you are a dead company in 5 years?  Gaming is a business, and those who know how to stay in business are the ones that will matter in the future.

Since a good bit of this post was responding to me, I'm going to respond to it.

You're right, it's not as simple as "let's just make everything on Wii and it will be all sunshine and daisies." No one in this thread said that (as far as I can see). Successful companies today are as such because they have a highly casual strategy (Nintendo, Sega, Activision, Ubisoft). World at War bombed on the Wii because the last iteration wasn't on the Wii (the one that made the series as popular as it is) and at first, it had no marketing. The hype that carried over from Call of Duty 4 to 5 was almost entirely PS3/360/PC, which explains why the PS2 version is also bombing. Besides, if The Wii (And DS, PS2, etc.) have taught us anything, it's that you can't judge a game by its first couple weeks. If you need some examples, I could give you quite a few.

By the way, how long you will be around doesn't have any effect on how much influence you have. One oak tree will have a longer lifespan than all the grass in the world, but I assure you that the grass will have a far greater influence over the ecosystem than the tree. Besides, how will most of the western developers we see today be dead in 5 years? The ones who will be dead are the ones who AREN'T selling millions of copies. Companies like Midway, Atari, Eidos, etc. have been in financial danger for a long time now, and the higher development costs/weakening economy have sent them over the tipping point. Good riddance, I say. These companies have also been around for a long time as well. Many of these western companies that are struggling have been around for many years and will continue to be around for many years.

It's not like western developers are the only ones struggling anyways. Nearly every Japanese company has merged with another and shared their IPs just to stay alive. Konami is pretty much the biggest Japanese developer, and the main reason they're successful is because most of what they release is music and sports games (which goes back to my earlier point). Sega has been struggling to make profit even with the huge success they've had this generation. How do you think smaller developers like Square Enix and Capcom are doing? They've likely been surviving off spinoffs and moneyhats.

 

 



 

 

While we are in a recession, the game industry is experiencing enotmous growth. I think YoY the total revenue is up 20%.

The HD development model is clearly unsustainable. If an average game will only break even at 1 million copies (let alone see a significant ROI) there's something terribly wrong with the industry.

Sure the Assassins Creeds, Gears and GTA's will earn a nice sum of money, but even something like Prince of Persia looks like it's going to make a loss. Despite it will likely end up selling a million.

Most Japanese devs have focused on DS, are increasing their Wii development and are having less HD games. For some reason Western devs are unwilling or unable to shift their focus to Nintendo's consoles.



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psrock said:
Are Japanese Dev in such great shape either. And, for them if its not an RPG, its an instant fail over there.

 

Last week japenese top 10

Layton, point and click adventure

AC, Sim game

Dragon Ball Z, fighter

Kirby, platformer

Winning eleven, sport

Wagama fashion, errr "other"

428, interactive novel

Pokemon, RPG ..kind of

Fallout 3, RPG, a western one...

Tengoku Gold, rhythm game

 

So much for that theory.



Persons without argument hide behind their opinion

Bodhesatva said:

Today Midway announced that they are laying off 25% of their workforce, and this news has finally led me to make this thread. Western publishers are struggling, generally speaking, and I'm wondering what others think we should do about it.

First, let's remember that almost all Western publishers are losing money. Ubisoft and Activision aren't: that's good. But Midway, Atari/Infogrames, SCi/Eidos, THQ, Take 2, Electronic Arts and likely LucasArts are. That's bad, and the list of losers is significantly longer than the couple of winners.

Second, let's look at how the workforce has changed in the last year.

December 2008: Midway closes Austin studio, reduces total workforce by 25%.
November 2008: THQ closes 5 studios, reduces workforce in 2 others.
October 2007: Atari ousts board of directors, lays of 20% of workforce.
February 2008: Eidos cuts workforce by 25%, cans 14 projects.
September 2008: As losses widen, EA cuts workforce by 6%
November 2008: Electronic Arts warns of further losses, likely more job cuts
September 2008: Lucasarts lays off 100 workers

Of the major Western Publishers, the only ones not to announce layoffs in the last year are Activision, Ubisoft and Take 2. Take 2 has been losing money for quite some time, however, and is likely to either begin bleeding soon or be acquired by a larger fish.

By contrast, there has been virtually no turmoil in Japanese publishers. What's particularly interesting about Western Publishers is that revenue is quite good: even in this recessive economy, video games are reaching record breaking profits, with the US market likely to spend 15-20% more money on video games this year than last, and last year was a record breaking year, too. Overall industry revenue is very healthy. So I ask again: why are most Western Publishers struggling so mightily?

 

LucasArts' Fracture is the perfect example of why these companies are performing so poorly ...

When you produce a game for $20+ Million and see (combined) sales in the 100,000 units range you dig a hole so deep that it is difficult to climb out of; regardless of whether you have a couple of big games (Lego Starwars/Lego Indiana Jones)



BengaBenga said:
While we are in a recession, the game industry is experiencing enotmous growth. I think YoY the total revenue is up 20%.

The HD development model is clearly unsustainable. If an average game will only break even at 1 million copies (let alone see a significant ROI) there's something terribly wrong with the industry.

Sure the Assassins Creeds, Gears and GTA's will earn a nice sum of money, but even something like Prince of Persia looks like it's going to make a loss. Despite it will likely end up selling a million.

Most Japanese devs have focused on DS, are increasing their Wii development and are having less HD games. For some reason Western devs are unwilling or unable to shift their focus to Nintendo's consoles.

I am becoming increasingly convinced that this is because msot Western devs prefer to treat consoles like PCs, and while the Wii is fine as a console it is pretty crappy as far as PCs go.



naznatips said:

It's not as simple as "let's just make everything on Wii and it will be all sunshine and daisies" either.  World at War bombed on Wii.  Someday it may recover sales, but it will take a long time, and shooters will never sell as well on Wii as they do on the HD consoles and PC.  And here we have the problem: Western developers don't know how to make anything else anymore.  If it's not a shooter it's a bloody action game.  If it's not a bloody action game it's a bloody action RPG.  If it's not a bloody action RPG it bombs (Poor Prince of Persia). 

Publishers are screwed. The developers they employ can only make a certain style of game that happens to cost out the ass and not sell enough to make up for it.  How can they scrap their whole staff and start over?  What can they really do?  You talk about Japanese publishers having no influence, but you're completely wrong.  Japanese publishers are the ones who will still be around in a decade. What good does it do you to sell millions now if you are a dead company in 5 years?  Gaming is a business, and those who know how to stay in business are the ones that will matter in the future.

Oh, I agree, although I probably didn't make it too clear.

The problem that I see on the HD consoles, is that everything that gets made is almost forced into being a graphical powerhouse.  Without the pretty screenshots, these games have no hype and don't sell.  Even if they do have the pretty screenshots, they need to hope that they don't get lost in the shuffle of the big name franchises.  It seems like everyone is trying to make a big budget blockbuster.  The industry can't survive like that.  There needs to be a lot of low to mid budget games to support those big blockbusters.  Those games don't exist on the HD consoles, and I don't seem them ever being made, or selling, given a userbase that is so graphically obsessed.

I don't see that as a problem for the Wii.  The bar is set lower graphically, so much smaller budgets can make an average looking Wii game, and it doesn't take as much effort to really stand out if you have the budget.  Lower development costs have meant that niche games can and do make money.  That's what we really need.  Profitable games.

I just don't see 360 and PS3 fans accepting lower budget games for the sake of profitablity.  They have been spoiled by an unsustainable business model.



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I feel sorry to say that, but they had what they deserved. Some companies really have a shitty behaviour, like eidos releasing a demo only for 360's owners, or some developpers than don't add trophies to their games, etc etc etc