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Forums - General Discussion - Global Warming. Fact or fiction??

SnesTea on 17 December 2008

Fact or Fiction: Both.

The world is warming up. However, it may be because of industrializing nations in Africa, Asia, Oceania, and South America, not necessarily the lone fault of the United States or other world powers.

Additionally, if it isn't because of that factor, then we can assume that the temperature of the sun is increasing.

People say that glaciers are melting. Is that fact? Maybe.

My stance:

Riddle me this, if global warming is truly existent, then why was it snowing in Houston, Texas last week? If anything, the world is getting colder.



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akuma587 on 17 December 2008
Snesboy said:
Fact or Fiction: Both.

The world is warming up. However, it may be because of industrializing nations in Africa, Asia, Oceania, and South America, not necessarily the lone fault of the United States or other world powers.

Additionally, if it isn't because of that factor, then we can assume that the temperature of the sun is increasing.

1) People say that glaciers are melting. Is that fact? Maybe.

My stance:

2) Riddle me this, if global warming is truly existent, then why was it snowing in Houston, Texas last week? If anything, the world is getting colder.

1) Glaciers are melting.  This is a fact.  There is tons of documented evidence on it.

2) Simply because it snows in warm places has nothing to do with an overall trend.  You are mistaking slight deviations in an overall trend from major deviations which would disprove an overall trend.

Its like saying if the Wii sells poorly for one week that the Wii is selling badly.  Its simply untrue and ignores the surrounding evidence.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Kasz216 on 17 December 2008
akuma587 said:
Kasz216 said:

Global Warming... fact.

Man made global warming... more likely then not.... fiction.

Man made global warming persists the same reason Fruedian psychoanalysts are still around.

The people who proport it have put to much time and education it... and otherwise are going to waste all their training, like lose their jobs and instead work at a Wal-mart.

Don't hate on Freudianism.  Freudianism has completely changed since it was introduced and has branched into much more well-thought out and less arbitrary schools of though, like the Lacan school of Freudianism and the followers of Carl Jung, both of which are in many ways completely different than Freudianism proper.

Remember.  I have a degree in psychology.  I know what i'm talong about.

It's more well thought out... it's still completly out of date and useless... and still largely subjective vs real sceintific psychology.  That's another thread though.

As it is... Global Warming also causes Global Warming for what it's worth.

Which is why it doesn't make sense that global warming seems to grow slower then pollution.

As it gets hotter.... the artic poles melt... this causes water vapor to be put in the air.  Water Vapor is a greenhouse gas... making everything getting warmer... causing more water vapor to rise in the atmosphere.

It's an endless cycle once you get going.  There is a lot of evidence we've already hit this point within the next couple years.

Meaning even if the main drive was man made... conservation isn't going to work since the natural effects of global warming have taken over.  We could stop all CO2 admissions and we're probably screwed already unless we find a way to pull greenhouse gases outside of the air.

 



Slimebeast on 17 December 2008

Time will tell lol.



SnesTea on 17 December 2008
akuma587 said:
Snesboy said:
Fact or Fiction: Both.

The world is warming up. However, it may be because of industrializing nations in Africa, Asia, Oceania, and South America, not necessarily the lone fault of the United States or other world powers.

Additionally, if it isn't because of that factor, then we can assume that the temperature of the sun is increasing.

1) People say that glaciers are melting. Is that fact? Maybe.

My stance:

2) Riddle me this, if global warming is truly existent, then why was it snowing in Houston, Texas last week? If anything, the world is getting colder.

1) Glaciers are melting.  This is a fact.  There is tons of documented evidence on it.

2) Simply because it snows in warm places has nothing to do with an overall trend.  You are mistaking slight deviations in an overall trend from major deviations which would disprove an overall trend.

Its like saying if the Wii sells poorly for one week that the Wii is selling badly.  Its simply untrue and ignores the surrounding evidence.

 

It was also snowing in Michigan last April. We typically stop getting snow in February.

 

 



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Tyrannical on 17 December 2008
As it gets hotter.... the artic poles melt... this causes water vapor to be put in the air. Water Vapor is a greenhouse gas... making everything getting warmer... causing more water vapor to rise in the atmosphere.

It's an endless cycle once you get going. There is a lot of evidence we've already hit this point within the next couple years.


Except that when wator vapor forms clouds, the clouds reflect the Sun's heat back into space, which causes cooling.

Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

craighopkins on 18 December 2008

good point ^

Didnt volcanic ash in the sky cause past ice ages?



jv103 on 18 December 2008
HappySqurriel said:

“I am a skeptic…Global warming has become a new religion.” - Nobel Prize Winner for Physics, Ivar Giaever.   

“Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can speak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical.” -  Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Joanne Simpson, the first woman in the world to receive a PhD in meteorology  and formerly of NASA who has authored more than 190 studies and has been called “among the most preeminent scientists of the last 100 years.”  

Warming fears are the “worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.” - UN IPCC Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.  

“The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn’t listen to others. It doesn’t have open minds… I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists,” - Indian geologist Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.  

“The models and forecasts of the UN IPCC "are incorrect because they only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity.” - Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico  

“It is a blatant lie put forth in the media that makes it seem there is only a fringe of scientists who don’t buy into anthropogenic global warming.” - U.S Government Atmospheric Scientist Stanley B. Goldenberg of the Hurricane Research Division of NOAA. 

“Even doubling or tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will.” – . Geoffrey G. Duffy, a professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering of the University of Auckland, NZ.

“After reading [UN IPCC chairman] Pachauri's asinine comment [comparing skeptics to] Flat Earthers, it's hard to remain quiet.” - Climate statistician Dr. William M. Briggs, who specializes in the statistics of forecast evaluation, serves on the American Meteorological Society's Probability and Statistics Committee and is an Associate Editor of Monthly Weather Review.  

“For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?" - Geologist Dr. David Gee the chairman of the science committee of the 2008 International Geological Congress who has authored 130 plus peer reviewed papers, and is currently at Uppsala University in Sweden.  

“Gore prompted me to start delving into the science again and I quickly found myself solidly in the skeptic camp…Climate models can at best be useful for explaining climate changes after the fact.” - Meteorologist Hajo Smit of Holland, who reversed his belief in man-made warming to become a skeptic, is a former member of the Dutch UN IPCC committee.  

“Many [scientists] are now searching for a way to back out quietly (from promoting warming fears), without having their professional careers ruined.” - Atmospheric physicist James A. Peden, formerly of the Space Research and Coordination Center in Pittsburgh.

“Creating an ideology pegged to carbon dioxide is a dangerous nonsense…The present alarm on climate change is an instrument of social control, a pretext for major businesses and political battle. It became an ideology, which is concerning.” - Environmental Scientist Professor Delgado Domingos of Portugal, the founder of the Numerical Weather Forecast group, has more than 150 published articles.

“CO2 emissions make absolutely no difference one way or another….Every scientist knows this, but it doesn’t pay to say so…Global warming, as a political vehicle, keeps Europeans in the driver’s seat and developing nations walking barefoot.” - Dr. Takeda Kunihiko, vice-chancellor of the Institute of Science and Technology Research at Chubu University in Japan.

“The [global warming] scaremongering has its justification in the fact that it is something that generates funds.” - Award-winning Paleontologist Dr. Eduardo Tonni, of the Committee for Scientific Research in Buenos Aires and head of the Paleontology Department at the University of La Plata

Appeal to authority?

 



Tyrannical on 18 December 2008

^----Technicaly not an appeal to authority falacy as the quotes are from authorities on the subject.

An appeal to authority falacy is when the person in question is not a legitimate authority on the subject.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

Tyrannical on 18 December 2008
craighopkins said:
good point ^

Didnt volcanic ash in the sky cause past ice ages?

 

Vulcanism has been blamed for causing brief (few years) cooling over the planet, not an ice age.

But funny you should mention it, one theory on why the last ice age ended was due to volcanic eruptions. The soot in the air first caused a cooling effect. But, as the black ash setteled on snow and glaciars covering most of the world, it absorbed heat and caused it to melt. Less snow and ice meant less of the Sun's heat reflected back into space, thus warming the planet.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire