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marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
I like the people that can just sit here and start blaming mothers and irresponsible girls and how they shouldn't go around having sex. I hate to break it to you, but this isn't a perfect world, very far from it. Adolescents will continue to have sex no matter what others say or do, and that will be that, condemning them for it will not help the situation in any way shape or form. I wish we lived in a perfect world where everything is in order and everyone follows our current set of morals and we can all hold hands and sing kumbayah, but it's not and we're the ones who have to adapt to it instead of trying to force the world to adapt to us.

Speaking of morals, they are extremely subjective. What your morals are may be completely different, and at odds, with someone else's. Are your morals better than theirs? Absolutely not. Are theirs better than yours? Absolutely not. Even the simple existence of the word immoral offends me. It's just a phrase of used to try to belittle other's opinions. If you want an example, by the Aztec's morals, sacrafice was perfectly acceptable, even honorable. In their religion you were guaranteed to go to hell unless you died in a few very special ways, sacrafice being one of them. By today's standards that's barbaric. Who's right? Neither one is, they are both right.

With today's morals, we have basically put a stop to natural selection, and as arsenicazure has pointed out we are facing a severe overcrowding problem on this planet. Even if I agree with murder being condemned and the other most basic of morals, I will also admit that they may ultimately lead humanity to huge problems down the road. In the grand scheme of things way may be condemning to humanity to near extinction, but who gives a damn as long as we have order right now?

All that said, I wish people would stop using their morals as an excuse to go and meddle with people's lives. It's just as bad as using god and religion. Moral is a sophisticated way of saying opinion, and nothing more, so please stop using that as a valid argument.

 

1) There are morals that are better than others. Not all, but some. If some tribe (like one in the Amazon Forest) believes that the parents have the right to starve to death their babies who were born with birth defects (I am talking about small things, like one more finger in their hand, for example), you don´t say: "oh, morals are subjective". You go save that kids life even if they object.

2) If the world is reaching overpopulation, why don't you kill yourself? I am not saying that you should do that, but it is easy for you to think that other people get to die or not be born so the world is fine, cause that doens't afect you directly.

PS - It is ironic, but telling other people that they shouldn't tell others how to do things, is telling others how to do (or not do) things.

So, even you believes some morality - subjective morality.  But it is still morality and you want everyone to think like you.

And there is nothing wrong with that (I disagree about subjective morality, but I have no problem with you trying to get me to see things your way).

 

That's exactly what I'm saying, because you were raised with those morals you think you are superior to their morals and you just go in and save the child. I'd go do the same thing but that doesn't mean I have the right to go and interfere with what they believe in. Also, following natural selection "laws," which is the argument I actually used so let's stick with that, there is absolutely no reason for me to go kill myself, it would also affect me directly so please stop assuming you know anything about me, your arguments would be more valid then.

You can find it ironic as much as you like, that doesn't change the fact that morals are subjective and based solely on one's childhood and the way they were raised/taught by their parents.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

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vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
I like the people that can just sit here and start blaming mothers and irresponsible girls and how they shouldn't go around having sex. I hate to break it to you, but this isn't a perfect world, very far from it. Adolescents will continue to have sex no matter what others say or do, and that will be that, condemning them for it will not help the situation in any way shape or form. I wish we lived in a perfect world where everything is in order and everyone follows our current set of morals and we can all hold hands and sing kumbayah, but it's not and we're the ones who have to adapt to it instead of trying to force the world to adapt to us.

Speaking of morals, they are extremely subjective. What your morals are may be completely different, and at odds, with someone else's. Are your morals better than theirs? Absolutely not. Are theirs better than yours? Absolutely not. Even the simple existence of the word immoral offends me. It's just a phrase of used to try to belittle other's opinions. If you want an example, by the Aztec's morals, sacrafice was perfectly acceptable, even honorable. In their religion you were guaranteed to go to hell unless you died in a few very special ways, sacrafice being one of them. By today's standards that's barbaric. Who's right? Neither one is, they are both right.

With today's morals, we have basically put a stop to natural selection, and as arsenicazure has pointed out we are facing a severe overcrowding problem on this planet. Even if I agree with murder being condemned and the other most basic of morals, I will also admit that they may ultimately lead humanity to huge problems down the road. In the grand scheme of things way may be condemning to humanity to near extinction, but who gives a damn as long as we have order right now?

All that said, I wish people would stop using their morals as an excuse to go and meddle with people's lives. It's just as bad as using god and religion. Moral is a sophisticated way of saying opinion, and nothing more, so please stop using that as a valid argument.

 

1) There are morals that are better than others. Not all, but some. If some tribe (like one in the Amazon Forest) believes that the parents have the right to starve to death their babies who were born with birth defects (I am talking about small things, like one more finger in their hand, for example), you don´t say: "oh, morals are subjective". You go save that kids life even if they object.

2) If the world is reaching overpopulation, why don't you kill yourself? I am not saying that you should do that, but it is easy for you to think that other people get to die or not be born so the world is fine, cause that doens't afect you directly.

PS - It is ironic, but telling other people that they shouldn't tell others how to do things, is telling others how to do (or not do) things.

So, even you believes some morality - subjective morality.  But it is still morality and you want everyone to think like you.

And there is nothing wrong with that (I disagree about subjective morality, but I have no problem with you trying to get me to see things your way).

 

1) That's exactly what I'm saying, because you were raised with those morals you think you are superior to their morals and you just go in and save the child. I'd go do the same thing but that doesn't mean I have the right to go and interfere with what they believe in. Also, following natural selection "laws," which is the argument I actually used so let's stick with that, there is absolutely no reason for me to go kill myself, it would also affect me directly so please stop assuming you know anything about me, your arguments would be more valid then.

2) You can find it ironic as much as you like, that doesn't change the fact that morals are subjective and based solely on one's childhood and the way they were raised/taught by their parents.

1) You don't think it is right, but you would do it anyway? Why? Because you know that you are right and they are wrong? That is having a superior morality, you just worded it in a different way.

2) There is one crucial problem with your way of thinking:

"All morality is subjective" --> the phrase "All morality is subjective" is a moral stance --> But, if the phrase is true, then "All morality is subjective" is also subjective --> Therefore, there are exceptions to the phrase --> Then, there are certains morals that are not subjective --> Your phrase is wrong. it contradicts itself.

 



www.jamesvandermemes.com

marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
I like the people that can just sit here and start blaming mothers and irresponsible girls and how they shouldn't go around having sex. I hate to break it to you, but this isn't a perfect world, very far from it. Adolescents will continue to have sex no matter what others say or do, and that will be that, condemning them for it will not help the situation in any way shape or form. I wish we lived in a perfect world where everything is in order and everyone follows our current set of morals and we can all hold hands and sing kumbayah, but it's not and we're the ones who have to adapt to it instead of trying to force the world to adapt to us.

Speaking of morals, they are extremely subjective. What your morals are may be completely different, and at odds, with someone else's. Are your morals better than theirs? Absolutely not. Are theirs better than yours? Absolutely not. Even the simple existence of the word immoral offends me. It's just a phrase of used to try to belittle other's opinions. If you want an example, by the Aztec's morals, sacrafice was perfectly acceptable, even honorable. In their religion you were guaranteed to go to hell unless you died in a few very special ways, sacrafice being one of them. By today's standards that's barbaric. Who's right? Neither one is, they are both right.

With today's morals, we have basically put a stop to natural selection, and as arsenicazure has pointed out we are facing a severe overcrowding problem on this planet. Even if I agree with murder being condemned and the other most basic of morals, I will also admit that they may ultimately lead humanity to huge problems down the road. In the grand scheme of things way may be condemning to humanity to near extinction, but who gives a damn as long as we have order right now?

All that said, I wish people would stop using their morals as an excuse to go and meddle with people's lives. It's just as bad as using god and religion. Moral is a sophisticated way of saying opinion, and nothing more, so please stop using that as a valid argument.

 

1) There are morals that are better than others. Not all, but some. If some tribe (like one in the Amazon Forest) believes that the parents have the right to starve to death their babies who were born with birth defects (I am talking about small things, like one more finger in their hand, for example), you don´t say: "oh, morals are subjective". You go save that kids life even if they object.

2) If the world is reaching overpopulation, why don't you kill yourself? I am not saying that you should do that, but it is easy for you to think that other people get to die or not be born so the world is fine, cause that doens't afect you directly.

PS - It is ironic, but telling other people that they shouldn't tell others how to do things, is telling others how to do (or not do) things.

So, even you believes some morality - subjective morality.  But it is still morality and you want everyone to think like you.

And there is nothing wrong with that (I disagree about subjective morality, but I have no problem with you trying to get me to see things your way).

 

1) That's exactly what I'm saying, because you were raised with those morals you think you are superior to their morals and you just go in and save the child. I'd go do the same thing but that doesn't mean I have the right to go and interfere with what they believe in. Also, following natural selection "laws," which is the argument I actually used so let's stick with that, there is absolutely no reason for me to go kill myself, it would also affect me directly so please stop assuming you know anything about me, your arguments would be more valid then.

2) You can find it ironic as much as you like, that doesn't change the fact that morals are subjective and based solely on one's childhood and the way they were raised/taught by their parents.

1) You don't think it is right, but you would do it anyway? Why? Because you know that you are right and they are wrong? That is having a superior morality, you just worded it in a different way.

2) There is one crucial problem with your way of thinking:

"All morality is subjective" --> the phrase "All morality is subjective" is a moral stance --> But, if the phrase is true, then "All morality is subjective" is also subjective --> Therefore, there are exceptions to the phrase --> Then, there are certains morals that are not subjective --> Your phrase is wrong. it contradicts itself.

 

 

1) No, only because I want to save the child, whether right or wrong I'd still do it. I don't get what's so hard to understand about doing something that may be wrong but I feel should be done. Another great example would be if I had a choice of my family over another million people. It'd be wrong to go save 3 people and let a million die, but I'd still do it without even thinking twice about it.

2)There is morality and there's pure simple fact. It's a fact that a person's morality is determined by the way they are raised, it's not my opinion, or moral stance as you call it.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
I like the people that can just sit here and start blaming mothers and irresponsible girls and how they shouldn't go around having sex. I hate to break it to you, but this isn't a perfect world, very far from it. Adolescents will continue to have sex no matter what others say or do, and that will be that, condemning them for it will not help the situation in any way shape or form. I wish we lived in a perfect world where everything is in order and everyone follows our current set of morals and we can all hold hands and sing kumbayah, but it's not and we're the ones who have to adapt to it instead of trying to force the world to adapt to us.

Speaking of morals, they are extremely subjective. What your morals are may be completely different, and at odds, with someone else's. Are your morals better than theirs? Absolutely not. Are theirs better than yours? Absolutely not. Even the simple existence of the word immoral offends me. It's just a phrase of used to try to belittle other's opinions. If you want an example, by the Aztec's morals, sacrafice was perfectly acceptable, even honorable. In their religion you were guaranteed to go to hell unless you died in a few very special ways, sacrafice being one of them. By today's standards that's barbaric. Who's right? Neither one is, they are both right.

With today's morals, we have basically put a stop to natural selection, and as arsenicazure has pointed out we are facing a severe overcrowding problem on this planet. Even if I agree with murder being condemned and the other most basic of morals, I will also admit that they may ultimately lead humanity to huge problems down the road. In the grand scheme of things way may be condemning to humanity to near extinction, but who gives a damn as long as we have order right now?

All that said, I wish people would stop using their morals as an excuse to go and meddle with people's lives. It's just as bad as using god and religion. Moral is a sophisticated way of saying opinion, and nothing more, so please stop using that as a valid argument.

 

1) There are morals that are better than others. Not all, but some. If some tribe (like one in the Amazon Forest) believes that the parents have the right to starve to death their babies who were born with birth defects (I am talking about small things, like one more finger in their hand, for example), you don´t say: "oh, morals are subjective". You go save that kids life even if they object.

2) If the world is reaching overpopulation, why don't you kill yourself? I am not saying that you should do that, but it is easy for you to think that other people get to die or not be born so the world is fine, cause that doens't afect you directly.

PS - It is ironic, but telling other people that they shouldn't tell others how to do things, is telling others how to do (or not do) things.

So, even you believes some morality - subjective morality.  But it is still morality and you want everyone to think like you.

And there is nothing wrong with that (I disagree about subjective morality, but I have no problem with you trying to get me to see things your way).

 

1) That's exactly what I'm saying, because you were raised with those morals you think you are superior to their morals and you just go in and save the child. I'd go do the same thing but that doesn't mean I have the right to go and interfere with what they believe in. Also, following natural selection "laws," which is the argument I actually used so let's stick with that, there is absolutely no reason for me to go kill myself, it would also affect me directly so please stop assuming you know anything about me, your arguments would be more valid then.

2) You can find it ironic as much as you like, that doesn't change the fact that morals are subjective and based solely on one's childhood and the way they were raised/taught by their parents.

1) You don't think it is right, but you would do it anyway? Why? Because you know that you are right and they are wrong? That is having a superior morality, you just worded it in a different way.

2) There is one crucial problem with your way of thinking:

"All morality is subjective" --> the phrase "All morality is subjective" is a moral stance --> But, if the phrase is true, then "All morality is subjective" is also subjective --> Therefore, there are exceptions to the phrase --> Then, there are certains morals that are not subjective --> Your phrase is wrong. it contradicts itself.

 

 

1) No, only because I want to save the child, whether right or wrong I'd still do it. I don't get what's so hard to understand about doing something that may be wrong but I feel should be done. Another great example would be if I had a choice of my family over another million people. It'd be wrong to go save 3 people and let a million die, but I'd still do it without even thinking twice about it.

2)There is morality and there's pure simple fact. It's a fact that a person's morality is determined by the way they are raised, it's not my opinion, or moral stance as you call it.

 

I think you agree with me, but you won't accept the label.

1) Saving the child is a moral choice. There is no other way about it. Describe it anyway you want, in that case, you thought that the morality of that tribe was wrong and yours right, because how can you define wrong if you don't have a pre-made sense of right to see the difference?

You went there and because it is a serious matter (the life of a child), you saved the child, even if it meant disrespecting or confronting the tribe´s morality. Your morals was right and theirs was wrong, because you knnew that that child should not die because of a simple birth defect.

2) You say potato, I say potata. Yes, morality is something learned from our families, and some people change theirs (a little or alot) as they go on living. But, some of those morals (taught and learned) are right and some of those are wrong.



www.jamesvandermemes.com

marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
I like the people that can just sit here and start blaming mothers and irresponsible girls and how they shouldn't go around having sex. I hate to break it to you, but this isn't a perfect world, very far from it. Adolescents will continue to have sex no matter what others say or do, and that will be that, condemning them for it will not help the situation in any way shape or form. I wish we lived in a perfect world where everything is in order and everyone follows our current set of morals and we can all hold hands and sing kumbayah, but it's not and we're the ones who have to adapt to it instead of trying to force the world to adapt to us.

Speaking of morals, they are extremely subjective. What your morals are may be completely different, and at odds, with someone else's. Are your morals better than theirs? Absolutely not. Are theirs better than yours? Absolutely not. Even the simple existence of the word immoral offends me. It's just a phrase of used to try to belittle other's opinions. If you want an example, by the Aztec's morals, sacrafice was perfectly acceptable, even honorable. In their religion you were guaranteed to go to hell unless you died in a few very special ways, sacrafice being one of them. By today's standards that's barbaric. Who's right? Neither one is, they are both right.

With today's morals, we have basically put a stop to natural selection, and as arsenicazure has pointed out we are facing a severe overcrowding problem on this planet. Even if I agree with murder being condemned and the other most basic of morals, I will also admit that they may ultimately lead humanity to huge problems down the road. In the grand scheme of things way may be condemning to humanity to near extinction, but who gives a damn as long as we have order right now?

All that said, I wish people would stop using their morals as an excuse to go and meddle with people's lives. It's just as bad as using god and religion. Moral is a sophisticated way of saying opinion, and nothing more, so please stop using that as a valid argument.

 

1) There are morals that are better than others. Not all, but some. If some tribe (like one in the Amazon Forest) believes that the parents have the right to starve to death their babies who were born with birth defects (I am talking about small things, like one more finger in their hand, for example), you don´t say: "oh, morals are subjective". You go save that kids life even if they object.

2) If the world is reaching overpopulation, why don't you kill yourself? I am not saying that you should do that, but it is easy for you to think that other people get to die or not be born so the world is fine, cause that doens't afect you directly.

PS - It is ironic, but telling other people that they shouldn't tell others how to do things, is telling others how to do (or not do) things.

So, even you believes some morality - subjective morality.  But it is still morality and you want everyone to think like you.

And there is nothing wrong with that (I disagree about subjective morality, but I have no problem with you trying to get me to see things your way).

 

1) That's exactly what I'm saying, because you were raised with those morals you think you are superior to their morals and you just go in and save the child. I'd go do the same thing but that doesn't mean I have the right to go and interfere with what they believe in. Also, following natural selection "laws," which is the argument I actually used so let's stick with that, there is absolutely no reason for me to go kill myself, it would also affect me directly so please stop assuming you know anything about me, your arguments would be more valid then.

2) You can find it ironic as much as you like, that doesn't change the fact that morals are subjective and based solely on one's childhood and the way they were raised/taught by their parents.

1) You don't think it is right, but you would do it anyway? Why? Because you know that you are right and they are wrong? That is having a superior morality, you just worded it in a different way.

2) There is one crucial problem with your way of thinking:

"All morality is subjective" --> the phrase "All morality is subjective" is a moral stance --> But, if the phrase is true, then "All morality is subjective" is also subjective --> Therefore, there are exceptions to the phrase --> Then, there are certains morals that are not subjective --> Your phrase is wrong. it contradicts itself.

 

 

1) No, only because I want to save the child, whether right or wrong I'd still do it. I don't get what's so hard to understand about doing something that may be wrong but I feel should be done. Another great example would be if I had a choice of my family over another million people. It'd be wrong to go save 3 people and let a million die, but I'd still do it without even thinking twice about it.

2)There is morality and there's pure simple fact. It's a fact that a person's morality is determined by the way they are raised, it's not my opinion, or moral stance as you call it.

 

I think you agree with me, but you won't accept the label.

1) Saving the child is a moral choice. There is no other way about it. Describe it anyway you want, in that case, you thought that the morality of that tribe was wrong and yours right, because how can you define wrong if you don't have a pre-made sense of right to see the difference?

You went there and because it is a serious matter (the life of a child), you saved the child, even if it meant disrespecting or confronting the tribe´s morality. Your morals was right and theirs was wrong, because you knnew that that child should not die because of a simple birth defect.

2) You say potato, I say potata. Yes, morality is something learned from our families, and some people change theirs (a little or alot) as they go on living. But, some of those morals (taught and learned) are right and some of those are wrong.

1) I never argued that I wasn't morally driven to save the child, in fact I admitted right to it. But what my moral is does not make it either right or wrong, I do it for my own comfort otherwise I'd face a serious cognitive dissonance problem if I just let the child die needlessly. My argument is that because I believe it, it doesn't make it the right choice, because in other people's eyes it might be outright wrong for me to intervene at all.

2) Just like there are no right or wrong opinions there are no right or wrong morals, your whole view of "right" is simply what is filtered by your own set of morals, which are based on the way you were raised. To others your set of morals can be just as wrong when looked through their own filters. Ultimately the trully "right" set of morals would be the ones that enable the human race as a whole to survive, and not just temporarily provide us with prosperity. Like I pointed out, our current "right" set of morals has set us on a collision path wwith a huge overpopulation problem.

 



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Around the Network
vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
I like the people that can just sit here and start blaming mothers and irresponsible girls and how they shouldn't go around having sex. I hate to break it to you, but this isn't a perfect world, very far from it. Adolescents will continue to have sex no matter what others say or do, and that will be that, condemning them for it will not help the situation in any way shape or form. I wish we lived in a perfect world where everything is in order and everyone follows our current set of morals and we can all hold hands and sing kumbayah, but it's not and we're the ones who have to adapt to it instead of trying to force the world to adapt to us.

Speaking of morals, they are extremely subjective. What your morals are may be completely different, and at odds, with someone else's. Are your morals better than theirs? Absolutely not. Are theirs better than yours? Absolutely not. Even the simple existence of the word immoral offends me. It's just a phrase of used to try to belittle other's opinions. If you want an example, by the Aztec's morals, sacrafice was perfectly acceptable, even honorable. In their religion you were guaranteed to go to hell unless you died in a few very special ways, sacrafice being one of them. By today's standards that's barbaric. Who's right? Neither one is, they are both right.

With today's morals, we have basically put a stop to natural selection, and as arsenicazure has pointed out we are facing a severe overcrowding problem on this planet. Even if I agree with murder being condemned and the other most basic of morals, I will also admit that they may ultimately lead humanity to huge problems down the road. In the grand scheme of things way may be condemning to humanity to near extinction, but who gives a damn as long as we have order right now?

All that said, I wish people would stop using their morals as an excuse to go and meddle with people's lives. It's just as bad as using god and religion. Moral is a sophisticated way of saying opinion, and nothing more, so please stop using that as a valid argument.

 

1) There are morals that are better than others. Not all, but some. If some tribe (like one in the Amazon Forest) believes that the parents have the right to starve to death their babies who were born with birth defects (I am talking about small things, like one more finger in their hand, for example), you don´t say: "oh, morals are subjective". You go save that kids life even if they object.

2) If the world is reaching overpopulation, why don't you kill yourself? I am not saying that you should do that, but it is easy for you to think that other people get to die or not be born so the world is fine, cause that doens't afect you directly.

PS - It is ironic, but telling other people that they shouldn't tell others how to do things, is telling others how to do (or not do) things.

So, even you believes some morality - subjective morality.  But it is still morality and you want everyone to think like you.

And there is nothing wrong with that (I disagree about subjective morality, but I have no problem with you trying to get me to see things your way).

 

1) That's exactly what I'm saying, because you were raised with those morals you think you are superior to their morals and you just go in and save the child. I'd go do the same thing but that doesn't mean I have the right to go and interfere with what they believe in. Also, following natural selection "laws," which is the argument I actually used so let's stick with that, there is absolutely no reason for me to go kill myself, it would also affect me directly so please stop assuming you know anything about me, your arguments would be more valid then.

2) You can find it ironic as much as you like, that doesn't change the fact that morals are subjective and based solely on one's childhood and the way they were raised/taught by their parents.

1) You don't think it is right, but you would do it anyway? Why? Because you know that you are right and they are wrong? That is having a superior morality, you just worded it in a different way.

2) There is one crucial problem with your way of thinking:

"All morality is subjective" --> the phrase "All morality is subjective" is a moral stance --> But, if the phrase is true, then "All morality is subjective" is also subjective --> Therefore, there are exceptions to the phrase --> Then, there are certains morals that are not subjective --> Your phrase is wrong. it contradicts itself.

 

 

1) No, only because I want to save the child, whether right or wrong I'd still do it. I don't get what's so hard to understand about doing something that may be wrong but I feel should be done. Another great example would be if I had a choice of my family over another million people. It'd be wrong to go save 3 people and let a million die, but I'd still do it without even thinking twice about it.

2)There is morality and there's pure simple fact. It's a fact that a person's morality is determined by the way they are raised, it's not my opinion, or moral stance as you call it.

 

I think you agree with me, but you won't accept the label.

1) Saving the child is a moral choice. There is no other way about it. Describe it anyway you want, in that case, you thought that the morality of that tribe was wrong and yours right, because how can you define wrong if you don't have a pre-made sense of right to see the difference?

You went there and because it is a serious matter (the life of a child), you saved the child, even if it meant disrespecting or confronting the tribe´s morality. Your morals was right and theirs was wrong, because you knnew that that child should not die because of a simple birth defect.

2) You say potato, I say potata. Yes, morality is something learned from our families, and some people change theirs (a little or alot) as they go on living. But, some of those morals (taught and learned) are right and some of those are wrong.

1) I never argued that I wasn't morally driven to save the child, in fact I admitted right to it. But what my moral is does not make it either right or wrong, I do it for my own comfort otherwise I'd face a serious cognitive dissonance problem if I just let the child die needlessly. My argument is that because I believe it, it doesn't make it the right choice, because in other people's eyes it might be outright wrong for me to intervene at all.

2) Just like there are no right or wrong opinions there are no right or wrong morals, your whole view of "right" is simply what is filtered by your own set of morals, which are based on the way you were raised. To others your set of morals can be just as wrong when looked through their own filters. Ultimately the trully "right" set of morals would be the ones that enable the human race as a whole to survive, and not just temporarily provide us with prosperity. Like I pointed out, our current "right" set of morals has set us on a collision path wwith a huge overpopulation problem.

 

"Just like there are no right or wrong opinions there are no right or wrong morals"

and

"Ultimately the trully "right" set of morals would be the ones...."

 

Tell me how one doesn´t oppose the other. You say no morals are right and in the next paragraph you are telling me what is right. I know you used "" but you still see it as the OBJECTIVE right way of thinking. And if you believe that all morals are subjective, then you can't say it.

 



www.jamesvandermemes.com

marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
I like the people that can just sit here and start blaming mothers and irresponsible girls and how they shouldn't go around having sex. I hate to break it to you, but this isn't a perfect world, very far from it. Adolescents will continue to have sex no matter what others say or do, and that will be that, condemning them for it will not help the situation in any way shape or form. I wish we lived in a perfect world where everything is in order and everyone follows our current set of morals and we can all hold hands and sing kumbayah, but it's not and we're the ones who have to adapt to it instead of trying to force the world to adapt to us.

Speaking of morals, they are extremely subjective. What your morals are may be completely different, and at odds, with someone else's. Are your morals better than theirs? Absolutely not. Are theirs better than yours? Absolutely not. Even the simple existence of the word immoral offends me. It's just a phrase of used to try to belittle other's opinions. If you want an example, by the Aztec's morals, sacrafice was perfectly acceptable, even honorable. In their religion you were guaranteed to go to hell unless you died in a few very special ways, sacrafice being one of them. By today's standards that's barbaric. Who's right? Neither one is, they are both right.

With today's morals, we have basically put a stop to natural selection, and as arsenicazure has pointed out we are facing a severe overcrowding problem on this planet. Even if I agree with murder being condemned and the other most basic of morals, I will also admit that they may ultimately lead humanity to huge problems down the road. In the grand scheme of things way may be condemning to humanity to near extinction, but who gives a damn as long as we have order right now?

All that said, I wish people would stop using their morals as an excuse to go and meddle with people's lives. It's just as bad as using god and religion. Moral is a sophisticated way of saying opinion, and nothing more, so please stop using that as a valid argument.

 

1) There are morals that are better than others. Not all, but some. If some tribe (like one in the Amazon Forest) believes that the parents have the right to starve to death their babies who were born with birth defects (I am talking about small things, like one more finger in their hand, for example), you don´t say: "oh, morals are subjective". You go save that kids life even if they object.

2) If the world is reaching overpopulation, why don't you kill yourself? I am not saying that you should do that, but it is easy for you to think that other people get to die or not be born so the world is fine, cause that doens't afect you directly.

PS - It is ironic, but telling other people that they shouldn't tell others how to do things, is telling others how to do (or not do) things.

So, even you believes some morality - subjective morality.  But it is still morality and you want everyone to think like you.

And there is nothing wrong with that (I disagree about subjective morality, but I have no problem with you trying to get me to see things your way).

 

1) That's exactly what I'm saying, because you were raised with those morals you think you are superior to their morals and you just go in and save the child. I'd go do the same thing but that doesn't mean I have the right to go and interfere with what they believe in. Also, following natural selection "laws," which is the argument I actually used so let's stick with that, there is absolutely no reason for me to go kill myself, it would also affect me directly so please stop assuming you know anything about me, your arguments would be more valid then.

2) You can find it ironic as much as you like, that doesn't change the fact that morals are subjective and based solely on one's childhood and the way they were raised/taught by their parents.

1) You don't think it is right, but you would do it anyway? Why? Because you know that you are right and they are wrong? That is having a superior morality, you just worded it in a different way.

2) There is one crucial problem with your way of thinking:

"All morality is subjective" --> the phrase "All morality is subjective" is a moral stance --> But, if the phrase is true, then "All morality is subjective" is also subjective --> Therefore, there are exceptions to the phrase --> Then, there are certains morals that are not subjective --> Your phrase is wrong. it contradicts itself.

 

 

1) No, only because I want to save the child, whether right or wrong I'd still do it. I don't get what's so hard to understand about doing something that may be wrong but I feel should be done. Another great example would be if I had a choice of my family over another million people. It'd be wrong to go save 3 people and let a million die, but I'd still do it without even thinking twice about it.

2)There is morality and there's pure simple fact. It's a fact that a person's morality is determined by the way they are raised, it's not my opinion, or moral stance as you call it.

 

I think you agree with me, but you won't accept the label.

1) Saving the child is a moral choice. There is no other way about it. Describe it anyway you want, in that case, you thought that the morality of that tribe was wrong and yours right, because how can you define wrong if you don't have a pre-made sense of right to see the difference?

You went there and because it is a serious matter (the life of a child), you saved the child, even if it meant disrespecting or confronting the tribe´s morality. Your morals was right and theirs was wrong, because you knnew that that child should not die because of a simple birth defect.

2) You say potato, I say potata. Yes, morality is something learned from our families, and some people change theirs (a little or alot) as they go on living. But, some of those morals (taught and learned) are right and some of those are wrong.

1) I never argued that I wasn't morally driven to save the child, in fact I admitted right to it. But what my moral is does not make it either right or wrong, I do it for my own comfort otherwise I'd face a serious cognitive dissonance problem if I just let the child die needlessly. My argument is that because I believe it, it doesn't make it the right choice, because in other people's eyes it might be outright wrong for me to intervene at all.

2) Just like there are no right or wrong opinions there are no right or wrong morals, your whole view of "right" is simply what is filtered by your own set of morals, which are based on the way you were raised. To others your set of morals can be just as wrong when looked through their own filters. Ultimately the trully "right" set of morals would be the ones that enable the human race as a whole to survive, and not just temporarily provide us with prosperity. Like I pointed out, our current "right" set of morals has set us on a collision path wwith a huge overpopulation problem.

 

"Just like there are no right or wrong opinions there are no right or wrong morals"

and

"Ultimately the trully "right" set of morals would be the ones...."

 

Tell me how one doesn´t oppose the other. You say no morals are right and in the next paragraph you are telling me what is right. I know you used "" but you still see it as the OBJECTIVE right way of thinking. And if you believe that all morals are subjective, then you can't say it.

 

 

Because no set of morals I have seen yet are right or wrong, and I doubt we'll ever see a set of morals that I define as "right," and I mean ever. Then again my definition of "right" is completely subjective and another person's definition of right could be completely different from my own.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
I like the people that can just sit here and start blaming mothers and irresponsible girls and how they shouldn't go around having sex. I hate to break it to you, but this isn't a perfect world, very far from it. Adolescents will continue to have sex no matter what others say or do, and that will be that, condemning them for it will not help the situation in any way shape or form. I wish we lived in a perfect world where everything is in order and everyone follows our current set of morals and we can all hold hands and sing kumbayah, but it's not and we're the ones who have to adapt to it instead of trying to force the world to adapt to us.

Speaking of morals, they are extremely subjective. What your morals are may be completely different, and at odds, with someone else's. Are your morals better than theirs? Absolutely not. Are theirs better than yours? Absolutely not. Even the simple existence of the word immoral offends me. It's just a phrase of used to try to belittle other's opinions. If you want an example, by the Aztec's morals, sacrafice was perfectly acceptable, even honorable. In their religion you were guaranteed to go to hell unless you died in a few very special ways, sacrafice being one of them. By today's standards that's barbaric. Who's right? Neither one is, they are both right.

With today's morals, we have basically put a stop to natural selection, and as arsenicazure has pointed out we are facing a severe overcrowding problem on this planet. Even if I agree with murder being condemned and the other most basic of morals, I will also admit that they may ultimately lead humanity to huge problems down the road. In the grand scheme of things way may be condemning to humanity to near extinction, but who gives a damn as long as we have order right now?

All that said, I wish people would stop using their morals as an excuse to go and meddle with people's lives. It's just as bad as using god and religion. Moral is a sophisticated way of saying opinion, and nothing more, so please stop using that as a valid argument.

 

1) There are morals that are better than others. Not all, but some. If some tribe (like one in the Amazon Forest) believes that the parents have the right to starve to death their babies who were born with birth defects (I am talking about small things, like one more finger in their hand, for example), you don´t say: "oh, morals are subjective". You go save that kids life even if they object.

2) If the world is reaching overpopulation, why don't you kill yourself? I am not saying that you should do that, but it is easy for you to think that other people get to die or not be born so the world is fine, cause that doens't afect you directly.

PS - It is ironic, but telling other people that they shouldn't tell others how to do things, is telling others how to do (or not do) things.

So, even you believes some morality - subjective morality.  But it is still morality and you want everyone to think like you.

And there is nothing wrong with that (I disagree about subjective morality, but I have no problem with you trying to get me to see things your way).

 

1) That's exactly what I'm saying, because you were raised with those morals you think you are superior to their morals and you just go in and save the child. I'd go do the same thing but that doesn't mean I have the right to go and interfere with what they believe in. Also, following natural selection "laws," which is the argument I actually used so let's stick with that, there is absolutely no reason for me to go kill myself, it would also affect me directly so please stop assuming you know anything about me, your arguments would be more valid then.

2) You can find it ironic as much as you like, that doesn't change the fact that morals are subjective and based solely on one's childhood and the way they were raised/taught by their parents.

1) You don't think it is right, but you would do it anyway? Why? Because you know that you are right and they are wrong? That is having a superior morality, you just worded it in a different way.

2) There is one crucial problem with your way of thinking:

"All morality is subjective" --> the phrase "All morality is subjective" is a moral stance --> But, if the phrase is true, then "All morality is subjective" is also subjective --> Therefore, there are exceptions to the phrase --> Then, there are certains morals that are not subjective --> Your phrase is wrong. it contradicts itself.

 

 

1) No, only because I want to save the child, whether right or wrong I'd still do it. I don't get what's so hard to understand about doing something that may be wrong but I feel should be done. Another great example would be if I had a choice of my family over another million people. It'd be wrong to go save 3 people and let a million die, but I'd still do it without even thinking twice about it.

2)There is morality and there's pure simple fact. It's a fact that a person's morality is determined by the way they are raised, it's not my opinion, or moral stance as you call it.

 

I think you agree with me, but you won't accept the label.

1) Saving the child is a moral choice. There is no other way about it. Describe it anyway you want, in that case, you thought that the morality of that tribe was wrong and yours right, because how can you define wrong if you don't have a pre-made sense of right to see the difference?

You went there and because it is a serious matter (the life of a child), you saved the child, even if it meant disrespecting or confronting the tribe´s morality. Your morals was right and theirs was wrong, because you knnew that that child should not die because of a simple birth defect.

2) You say potato, I say potata. Yes, morality is something learned from our families, and some people change theirs (a little or alot) as they go on living. But, some of those morals (taught and learned) are right and some of those are wrong.

1) I never argued that I wasn't morally driven to save the child, in fact I admitted right to it. But what my moral is does not make it either right or wrong, I do it for my own comfort otherwise I'd face a serious cognitive dissonance problem if I just let the child die needlessly. My argument is that because I believe it, it doesn't make it the right choice, because in other people's eyes it might be outright wrong for me to intervene at all.

2) Just like there are no right or wrong opinions there are no right or wrong morals, your whole view of "right" is simply what is filtered by your own set of morals, which are based on the way you were raised. To others your set of morals can be just as wrong when looked through their own filters. Ultimately the trully "right" set of morals would be the ones that enable the human race as a whole to survive, and not just temporarily provide us with prosperity. Like I pointed out, our current "right" set of morals has set us on a collision path wwith a huge overpopulation problem.

 

"Just like there are no right or wrong opinions there are no right or wrong morals"

and

"Ultimately the trully "right" set of morals would be the ones...."

 

Tell me how one doesn´t oppose the other. You say no morals are right and in the next paragraph you are telling me what is right. I know you used "" but you still see it as the OBJECTIVE right way of thinking. And if you believe that all morals are subjective, then you can't say it.

 

 

Because no set of morals I have seen yet are right or wrong, and I doubt we'll ever see a set of morals that I define as "right," and I mean ever. Then again my definition of "right" is completely subjective and another person's definition of right could be completely different from my own.

I think we will never completely agree because of that. I believe some morality is subjective and some are objective.

You don't.

Now, here is a question: Do you believe that "right and wrong" does not exist or do you believe that us, humans, can never be sure if our "right and wrong" is the correct one?

 

 



www.jamesvandermemes.com

marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
marciosmg said:
vlad321 said:
I like the people that can just sit here and start blaming mothers and irresponsible girls and how they shouldn't go around having sex. I hate to break it to you, but this isn't a perfect world, very far from it. Adolescents will continue to have sex no matter what others say or do, and that will be that, condemning them for it will not help the situation in any way shape or form. I wish we lived in a perfect world where everything is in order and everyone follows our current set of morals and we can all hold hands and sing kumbayah, but it's not and we're the ones who have to adapt to it instead of trying to force the world to adapt to us.

Speaking of morals, they are extremely subjective. What your morals are may be completely different, and at odds, with someone else's. Are your morals better than theirs? Absolutely not. Are theirs better than yours? Absolutely not. Even the simple existence of the word immoral offends me. It's just a phrase of used to try to belittle other's opinions. If you want an example, by the Aztec's morals, sacrafice was perfectly acceptable, even honorable. In their religion you were guaranteed to go to hell unless you died in a few very special ways, sacrafice being one of them. By today's standards that's barbaric. Who's right? Neither one is, they are both right.

With today's morals, we have basically put a stop to natural selection, and as arsenicazure has pointed out we are facing a severe overcrowding problem on this planet. Even if I agree with murder being condemned and the other most basic of morals, I will also admit that they may ultimately lead humanity to huge problems down the road. In the grand scheme of things way may be condemning to humanity to near extinction, but who gives a damn as long as we have order right now?

All that said, I wish people would stop using their morals as an excuse to go and meddle with people's lives. It's just as bad as using god and religion. Moral is a sophisticated way of saying opinion, and nothing more, so please stop using that as a valid argument.

 

1) There are morals that are better than others. Not all, but some. If some tribe (like one in the Amazon Forest) believes that the parents have the right to starve to death their babies who were born with birth defects (I am talking about small things, like one more finger in their hand, for example), you don´t say: "oh, morals are subjective". You go save that kids life even if they object.

2) If the world is reaching overpopulation, why don't you kill yourself? I am not saying that you should do that, but it is easy for you to think that other people get to die or not be born so the world is fine, cause that doens't afect you directly.

PS - It is ironic, but telling other people that they shouldn't tell others how to do things, is telling others how to do (or not do) things.

So, even you believes some morality - subjective morality.  But it is still morality and you want everyone to think like you.

And there is nothing wrong with that (I disagree about subjective morality, but I have no problem with you trying to get me to see things your way).

 

1) That's exactly what I'm saying, because you were raised with those morals you think you are superior to their morals and you just go in and save the child. I'd go do the same thing but that doesn't mean I have the right to go and interfere with what they believe in. Also, following natural selection "laws," which is the argument I actually used so let's stick with that, there is absolutely no reason for me to go kill myself, it would also affect me directly so please stop assuming you know anything about me, your arguments would be more valid then.

2) You can find it ironic as much as you like, that doesn't change the fact that morals are subjective and based solely on one's childhood and the way they were raised/taught by their parents.

1) You don't think it is right, but you would do it anyway? Why? Because you know that you are right and they are wrong? That is having a superior morality, you just worded it in a different way.

2) There is one crucial problem with your way of thinking:

"All morality is subjective" --> the phrase "All morality is subjective" is a moral stance --> But, if the phrase is true, then "All morality is subjective" is also subjective --> Therefore, there are exceptions to the phrase --> Then, there are certains morals that are not subjective --> Your phrase is wrong. it contradicts itself.

 

 

1) No, only because I want to save the child, whether right or wrong I'd still do it. I don't get what's so hard to understand about doing something that may be wrong but I feel should be done. Another great example would be if I had a choice of my family over another million people. It'd be wrong to go save 3 people and let a million die, but I'd still do it without even thinking twice about it.

2)There is morality and there's pure simple fact. It's a fact that a person's morality is determined by the way they are raised, it's not my opinion, or moral stance as you call it.

 

I think you agree with me, but you won't accept the label.

1) Saving the child is a moral choice. There is no other way about it. Describe it anyway you want, in that case, you thought that the morality of that tribe was wrong and yours right, because how can you define wrong if you don't have a pre-made sense of right to see the difference?

You went there and because it is a serious matter (the life of a child), you saved the child, even if it meant disrespecting or confronting the tribe´s morality. Your morals was right and theirs was wrong, because you knnew that that child should not die because of a simple birth defect.

2) You say potato, I say potata. Yes, morality is something learned from our families, and some people change theirs (a little or alot) as they go on living. But, some of those morals (taught and learned) are right and some of those are wrong.

1) I never argued that I wasn't morally driven to save the child, in fact I admitted right to it. But what my moral is does not make it either right or wrong, I do it for my own comfort otherwise I'd face a serious cognitive dissonance problem if I just let the child die needlessly. My argument is that because I believe it, it doesn't make it the right choice, because in other people's eyes it might be outright wrong for me to intervene at all.

2) Just like there are no right or wrong opinions there are no right or wrong morals, your whole view of "right" is simply what is filtered by your own set of morals, which are based on the way you were raised. To others your set of morals can be just as wrong when looked through their own filters. Ultimately the trully "right" set of morals would be the ones that enable the human race as a whole to survive, and not just temporarily provide us with prosperity. Like I pointed out, our current "right" set of morals has set us on a collision path wwith a huge overpopulation problem.

 

"Just like there are no right or wrong opinions there are no right or wrong morals"

and

"Ultimately the trully "right" set of morals would be the ones...."

 

Tell me how one doesn´t oppose the other. You say no morals are right and in the next paragraph you are telling me what is right. I know you used "" but you still see it as the OBJECTIVE right way of thinking. And if you believe that all morals are subjective, then you can't say it.

 

 

Because no set of morals I have seen yet are right or wrong, and I doubt we'll ever see a set of morals that I define as "right," and I mean ever. Then again my definition of "right" is completely subjective and another person's definition of right could be completely different from my own.

I think we will never completely agree because of that. I believe some morality is subjective and some are objective.

You don't.

Now, here is a question: Do you believe that "right and wrong" does not exist or do you believe that us, humans, can never be sure if our "right and wrong" is the correct one?

 

 

Neither actually. Everyone has their own definition of right and wrong and everyone is sure that theirs is the right one, and what is right to some is wrong to others. Therefore right and wrong doesn't exist simply because we, humanity as a whole, will never be sure of what right and wrong is.

 

Edit: P.S. Why the hell does every time I have tests/project due the morning I end up in a philosophical argument in VGC? Maybe that explain my grades this semester....



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Sorry for killing yet another thread....



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835