ClaudeLv250 said:
swyggi said:
ClaudeLv250 said:
swyggi said:
Because in many respects it's true. Zelda and Mario use a lot of the same concepts, gameplay and formulas for every one of their major games. Zelda dungeons have a lot of repeats: Forest, Ice, Water and fire dungeons have been used several times over in Zelda games. Same z-targeting system in 3-D Zelda's, several of the same items and the storyline doesn't generally change much at all. You always seem to get either the boomerang or the bow and arrow during the beginning too.
Super Mario Sunshine however was something new and refreshing I'll admit because of the water pack, however you still collected stars in a linear fashion just like SM64 and SMG.
That doesn't mean anything bad or good. It just depends on how you look at it.
|
That's washing it down with too much simplicity. The genius of these games is that they use similar concepts to craft completely new experiences.
Saying that Mario gets the star means absolutely nothing, because Galaxy is completely different from Sunshine and 64. In Sunshine and 64, the game dropped you into large environments and let you explore of your own will to actually find the star, often times providing multiple paths and tricks to get there. Galaxy is more like the 2D games in that the levels are actually linear and the challenge is getting across the preset obstacle course. You're going from point A to point B in Galaxy, but not in its predecessors.
Similarly, Zelda having similar themed dungeons is where the similarity ends. The only thing that Fire Temple and Goron Mines have in common is location and the lava theme. The actual layout, puzzles, ect. are completely different. In the Fire Temple you're moving blocks geysers and avoiding walls of flame, in the Goron Mines you're using the Goron machines to walk across magnetic strips. Same goes for the "water" themed dungeons. In the Water Temple, you're raising and lowering the water level to navigate different floors (an extension of LttP's water dungeon), but in the Lakebed Temple you use the momentum of flowing water to start machinery that'll get you around.
People shouldn't have much to complain about when the end result is completely different.
|
Yes, I am making it simple. Which is the point, because while there are different puzzles and obstacles in each dungeon they still feel like the same dungeon. Not because of the name fire dungeon or water dungeon, but because each dungeon has too many similar concepts like small keys, using the item in the dungeon to beat the boss, and having a compass and map in treasure chests in the dungeons. It would be nice if they were mixed up and instead maybe find the map or compass in a village or something, maybe even complete a fun battle quest against a few enemies attacking villagers on your horse to get the map and compass.
|
It can't "feel" like the same dungeon if you just admitted that the puzzles and obstacles are completely different. Having a little bit of water in a dungeon doesn't make it feel the same.
Dungeon items in dungeons are that way because it makes sense. 1)Why oh why would you need to go do a quest to save people and get a compass for a dungeon on the other side of Hyrule? It makes no sense from a storyline or gameplay perspective. In an arbitrary attempt to "shake it up" you're just making something mediocre. 2Now, having Link do the Spirit Temple as a child and an adult makes more sense both in a gameplay and storyline sense. They made that work. But apparently that doesn't count because you still get a boss key and use the Mirror Shield in a boss fight.
|
1) I never said it had to be on the other side of Hyrule. Just in a village, it could be anywhere. That was a small example, no need to get riled up about that.
I'm talking about the pacing of the Zelda games. You can add all the variety in those dungeons that you want, it's still the same pacing if you keep all of those (keys, item in dungeon to beat the boss, mini boss for item) the same. Therefore it still feels like the same game as a previous 3-D or 2-D zelda (depending on which one's we're talking about). I'm not arguing the gameplay is completely the same, it's the overall feel of each Zelda game.
2) Now if only they would have kept doing interesting things like that throughout the game.
Why not try cities as the dungeons? You could walk around town solving puzzles and fighting monsters protecting people while still keeping the keys, miniboss, item and boss combo. You go through a bunch of obstacles and then out of the blue a huge boss comes out of the ground; maybe there doesn't need to be a boss key.
