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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Mario and Zelda must go.

spdk1 on 04 December 2008
Soriku said:
nordlead said:
midwinter said:

Maybe when they say, "must go". They mean that they should go and be fruitful and multiply and make many more baby games for us to enjoy.

I'm going to go back to eating my Nintendo Cereal from the 80's.

that must taste pretty nasty. I don't think the amazing flavor lasts 20 years.

I so hope Nintendo dominates so bad that they reintroduce all the Nintendo stuff like the cereal and soda and all the other really cool things.

 

 

They'd casualize the ceral. I want my hardcore cereal D:

cereal that is 12 sdhades of grey, with bullet shaped marshmallows, and makes the milk turn blood red

 



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thetonestarr on 04 December 2008

Final Fantasy XIII (around 80th release in the series), Metal Gear Solid IV (around 20th release in the series), and GTA IV (sixth release in the series) say hey.



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The Ghost of RubangB on 04 December 2008

The other day I typed in "metal gear solid" to compare the sales of what I thought were only 4 games, and the 20+ results blew me away.  I really had no idea.  Graphic novels and shit?  Damn.  That's hardcore.

swyggi said:
Because in many respects it's true. Zelda and Mario use a lot of the same concepts, gameplay and formulas for every one of their major games. Zelda dungeons have a lot of repeats: Forest, Ice, Water and fire dungeons have been used several times over in Zelda games. Same z-targeting system in 3-D Zelda's, several of the same items and the storyline doesn't generally change much at all. You always seem to get either the boomerang or the bow and arrow during the beginning too.

Super Mario Sunshine however was something new and refreshing I'll admit because of the water pack, however you still collected stars in a linear fashion just like SM64 and SMG.

That doesn't mean anything bad or good. It just depends on how you look at it.

Are you complaining about Z targeting?  That was a huge revolution in gameplay that allowed 3rd-person melee and missile fighting to work in Ocarina of Time, and Nintendo isn't the only company still using it to this day.  You still do that in hardcore GTA games when you fight pimps and run over hookers and all that other awesome hardcore stuff.  You play GTA with Nintendo's control schemes and don't you forget it.

And I see in another post you're complaining about getting a small key to open a door?  What would you prefer?  No locked doors?  You blow the door up?  You pull a lever?  You press a button?  You step on a pressure switch?  There is a finite amount of ways to open doors, and they've all been done to death in video games.  I don't see why you'd complain about keys though, considering they're the only way to open doors that actually makes sense in the real world, where we all actually use keys.  Or do you have tripwires and heat sensors to open doors where you live?



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Phoenix_Wiight on 04 December 2008

thats how I feel about most games on the 360. FPS, FPS, FPS, 3rdPS, 3rdPS, 3rdPS, FPS.... etc



ClaudeLv250 on 04 December 2008
swyggi said:
ClaudeLv250 said:
swyggi said:
Because in many respects it's true. Zelda and Mario use a lot of the same concepts, gameplay and formulas for every one of their major games. Zelda dungeons have a lot of repeats: Forest, Ice, Water and fire dungeons have been used several times over in Zelda games. Same z-targeting system in 3-D Zelda's, several of the same items and the storyline doesn't generally change much at all. You always seem to get either the boomerang or the bow and arrow during the beginning too.

Super Mario Sunshine however was something new and refreshing I'll admit because of the water pack, however you still collected stars in a linear fashion just like SM64 and SMG.

That doesn't mean anything bad or good. It just depends on how you look at it.

That's washing it down with too much simplicity. The genius of these games is that they use similar concepts to craft completely new experiences.

Saying that Mario gets the star means absolutely nothing, because Galaxy is completely different from Sunshine and 64. In Sunshine and 64, the game dropped you into large environments and let you explore of your own will to actually find the star, often times providing multiple paths and tricks to get there. Galaxy is more like the 2D games in that the levels are actually linear and the challenge is getting across the preset obstacle course. You're going from point A to point B in Galaxy, but not in its predecessors.

Similarly, Zelda having similar themed dungeons is where the similarity ends. The only thing that Fire Temple and Goron Mines have in common is location and the lava theme. The actual layout, puzzles, ect. are completely different. In the Fire Temple you're moving blocks geysers and avoiding walls of flame, in the Goron Mines you're using the Goron machines to walk across magnetic strips. Same goes for the "water" themed dungeons. In the Water Temple, you're raising and lowering the water level to navigate different floors (an extension of LttP's water dungeon), but in the Lakebed Temple you use the momentum of flowing water to start machinery that'll get you around.

People shouldn't have much to complain about when the end result is completely different.

 

 

Yes, I am making it simple.  Which is the point, because while there are different puzzles and obstacles in each dungeon they still feel like the same dungeon.  Not because of the name fire dungeon or water dungeon, but because each dungeon has too many similar concepts like small keys, using the item in the dungeon to beat the boss, and having a compass and map in treasure chests in the dungeons.  It would be nice if they were mixed up and instead maybe find the map or compass in a village or something, maybe even complete a fun battle quest against a few enemies attacking villagers on your horse to get the map and compass. 

 

 

It can't "feel" like the same dungeon if you just admitted that the puzzles and obstacles are completely different. Having a little bit of water in a dungeon doesn't make it feel the same.

Dungeon items in dungeons are that way because it makes sense. Why oh why would you need to go do a quest to save people and get a compass for a dungeon on the other side of Hyrule? It makes no sense from a storyline or gameplay perspective. In an arbitrary attempt to "shake it up" you're just making something mediocre. Now, having Link do the Spirit Temple as a child and an adult makes more sense both in a gameplay and storyline sense. They made that work. But apparently that doesn't count because you still get a boss key and use the Mirror Shield in a boss fight.



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FishyJoe on 04 December 2008

It's probably the same people who hype every FPS, even though modern FPS gameplay isn't a whole lot different from Doom.



Khuutra on 04 December 2008
FishyJoe said:

It's probably the same people who hype every FPS, even though modern FPS gameplay isn't a whole lot different from Doom.

You know, it's easy to say that, but when you play an FPS for which that is actually true (like Painkiller) and them compare it to another modern FPS (say, Call of Duty 4) you can see where FPS fans make their arguments.



tabsina on 04 December 2008
Khuutra said:
FishyJoe said:

It's probably the same people who hype every FPS, even though modern FPS gameplay isn't a whole lot different from Doom.

You know, it's easy to say that, but when you play an FPS for which that is actually true (like Painkiller) and them compare it to another modern FPS (say, Call of Duty 4) you can see where FPS fans make their arguments.

 

same applies to when you actually play each of the games from the super mario and zelda series, rather than comparing the names and genres... oh both titles say super mario xxxxxxx in the title.. stupid rehashes



Khuutra on 04 December 2008
tabsina said:
Khuutra said:
FishyJoe said:

It's probably the same people who hype every FPS, even though modern FPS gameplay isn't a whole lot different from Doom.

You know, it's easy to say that, but when you play an FPS for which that is actually true (like Painkiller) and them compare it to another modern FPS (say, Call of Duty 4) you can see where FPS fans make their arguments.

 

same applies to when you actually play each of the games from the super mario and zelda series, rather than comparing the names and genres... oh both titles say super mario xxxxxxx in the title.. stupid rehashes

Oh no I agree, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Sunshine, and Super Mario 64 are all fundamentally different experiences. I would never argue otherwise. It's just that I don't think it can be contrasted with First Person Shooters. They're about "shooting" in the same way Mario is about "jumping", if you get my meaning.



tabsina on 04 December 2008
Khuutra said:
tabsina said:
Khuutra said:
FishyJoe said:

It's probably the same people who hype every FPS, even though modern FPS gameplay isn't a whole lot different from Doom.

You know, it's easy to say that, but when you play an FPS for which that is actually true (like Painkiller) and them compare it to another modern FPS (say, Call of Duty 4) you can see where FPS fans make their arguments.

 

same applies to when you actually play each of the games from the super mario and zelda series, rather than comparing the names and genres... oh both titles say super mario xxxxxxx in the title.. stupid rehashes

Oh no I agree, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Sunshine, and Super Mario 64 are all fundamentally different experiences. I would never argue otherwise. It's just that I don't think it can be contrasted with First Person Shooters. They're about "shooting" in the same way Mario is about "jumping", if you get my meaning.

yep.. i agree, but i believe that was the point the fishyjoe was making (or i thought it was).. i thought he was saying that saying that all super mario games are the same is equivilant to saying all fps games are the same, which they obviously are not, as you pointed out.. its just the fundamentals, which are, well, fundamental