so your cool with killing the development of future developers in your platform. you dont have to publish any game made, they could test them, or heck even distribute them for free paying the developer off of a % of ad based revenue from distribution, or some other scheme ...

any time you cut developers out you are hurting yourself. 

I still disagree. I agree with your reasoning, but Sony is synonymous with quality. That would be like expecting them to release an arcade PS3, or a cheap crappy HDTV - it's not going to happen. I stand by their philosophy - quality over quantity. Even when it comes to games.

Net Yaroze. That's what it is called. Trying to remember that the other day when thinking that some of the games I played on the OPM demo disc were quite good, most probably rubbish but the "Black" Playstation as it was known cost a lot so wasn't for people just casually trying.

they should re-release some of those on PSN. don't need any new stuff though

I disagree with your post.

Firstly, when I said I hope it leads to some quality XBLA releases, I meant only the diamonds in the rough, MS doesn't release crappy games on the XBLA. Games developed on XNA will not be released directly into the XBLA...what I'm hoping is that a developer will design something impressive enough to make it to the XBLA. Kinda like Braid. The quality to get a game released on XBLA is very strict. Check metacritic and see that some XBLA games are rated very highly. In fact, MS earlier this year was removing all underperforming games from the XLBA. http://www.edge-online.com/features/exclusive-interview-ms-delist-xbla-titles

I'm sure that PSN has a form of quality control on their games, but I think XBLA has the advantage with higher quality games.

But back on original topic. I don't see what the problem would be to release these tools to the little guy. Through using them, they can become experienced and work their way up. Everyone's gotta start somewhere.

at least in my experience sony abandoned quality sometime around 2002. I had 2 flat trinitron tvs fail with in six months (the first one i took back and swapped the second one i took back and got my money back) I have had one sony computer battery warp and destroy a laptop (there was a recall latter, but a lot of good that did me). I dont hold ps2s dying against them as all consoles suffer that fae if you play them long enough (drive burnt out knows all makers). had a in dash cd player die too (the whole thing fired no radio no nothing)... ate the cd 

this series of events really ercked me as i had bought and used for years several sony products... the only one out side of the ps2&psp i still use is a digital surround system receiver which has worked very well for me since i bought it in 2001.

and honestly as far as hdtvs, and lcds go samsung is ahead of them. you can get very nice units for much less then either of them too Ive been very happy with my 47" phillips, and was sad to hear they were leaving the north american market as i had planned on buying a second from them

This guy is right. Sony did experiment with something similar to XNA called Net Yaroze back in 1997 for the PS1. But it didn't suceed mainly due to its own shortcomings. 

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/08/14/will-xbox-360-xna-succeed-where-sony-failed/

thats a pretty cool project its ashame they didnt push it

side note, in a lot of developing nations sony has decded that they will not take royalties for developed ps2 games to be put out in those regions... sine they can not do the ps2 on the ps3 yet  (they might still figure out a full software emulation), why not let ps1 development tools with appropriate adapter software act as xna for the ps3, it would be cheap, and sony could cut down royalties for it to encourage developers to try new things 

Wow.. I can't believe people are bashing MS for giving tools to independent developers to create games.

@Dbot
Community games are not forced on to us... I visit it once a week to see if anything good as been released. 360 = Choices

@Griffin
Agree, the games so far are crap, I'm so dissapointed in the fact that no strategy or RPG games where evened released on day one.

@ Phrancheyez
Xbox Live has those same standards, XNA community games doesn't.
It might take a year, but that diamond (or maybe two or three!) in a rough will come!

$5 for homebrew doesn't seem like MS is doing you any favors.  As long as it makes you happy. 

To each his own, I suppose.  I've never had a fraction of the problems with Sony products as you have, so I can only go off of personal experience.  Had I experienced those attrocities, maybe I'd feel the same.

Also, regardless of whether Samsung is considered better or not, there are a lot of companies that make HDTVs, and to be considered even 2nd best is a true testament to your quality.  I personally own a Vizio which I've had for about 3 years now and I've never had a single problem with it - it worked beautifully when I got it and still does.  That being said, even knowing that now, the only reason I didn't buy a Sony HDTV was because of price - I think they're worth paying a little more for, but that doesn't matter if you don't have a little more money to spend.

You can get good quality TVs that are almost as good as Sony's for cheaper, but you're never going to find a Sony product that they gimped on the features.  Whether that's a TV, stereo equipment, a PS3, a Blu-Ray Player, whatever.  All I'm saying is, I like that the same philosophy carries onto their games.  I'd LOVE to be able to mess around with Sony's PSN dev tools, but I'm not upset that I can't.  The way I see it is it gives me something to look forward to.

@ymeaga1n
I strongly disagree with the game quality of PSN vs Live.  I'm not saying Live has no good games - don't interpret me wrong.  But they still don't have many downloadable games the caliber of Warhawk, Burnout Paradise (yes multiplat, but you can still download it), Wipeout HD, PixelJunk Monsters, Socom, Crash Commando, Fat Princess, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, NFL Head Coach, PixelJunk Eden, Siren Blood Curse, Tekken 5 Ressurection..I think you get the point.  A lot of these games developed for and downloadable on the PSN are the same quality as a lot of disc-based games out there.  Braid is good, but it's not on the scale of a disc-based game.

That being said, people who use XNA can release any game they want at any price.  MS just lowered some of their restrictions pertaining to those aspects of game development as recently as last month - I don't know where you get your info or if you even use XNA.  Because of this, they're also taking a smaller % of the profits of the games released as well.  And I'm also not certain if that necessarily means theres a different medium in which to get some of these games, where say only the good ones are added to XBLA, but you can still download any game anyone decides to release.  I haven't 'released' a game yet, I'll know more when that time comes.  I only know what MS representatives are relating to me over phone conversations and emails.

You guys don't get what I'm saying.  It's nice that these platforms like the XBOX 360/XNA are open to first-time and small developement groups, but every platform can't do that.  There has to be a platform that holds some sort of standard who doesn't bother with the uncertain.  PSN may miss out on the occasional 'diamond in the rough,'  but they're also going to miss out on all the grains of sand with which you have to dig through to find that diamond.  I applaud MS and XNA, because without them I wouldn't be able to be doing anything right now.  But I also want something to look forward to.  If I have nothing to work towards, I'm not going to get better at the same rate as if I know I have to reach a certain caliber to be able to use a certain platform, whatever that platform is.  In this case, we just happen to be talking about the PSN.  I relate Sony to quality, therefor I feel like if I can work up the credentials to be able to use their platform, that means I've arrived.  

I guess if you don't try to develop games, it might not mean the same to you.  And even some developers might disagree with me.  I don't exactly consider myself a 'developer' more than an 'experimenter', but I prefer to have something to look forward to.  And looking forward to retail disc-based developement is a very unrealistic goal when you're in the stages that I'm in; looking forward to the PSN and the scale of games they allow you to develop is a smaller step in the right direction.  Otherwise, you're waiting around forever, going from 'anyone can try it!' to full sized retail developement is a huge leap.  Going from Braid to Wipeout HD is not so much.  

I don't know..maybe I'm crazy?  I just like it how it is.