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Forums - Nintendo - Has Nintendo Lost the Hardcore Gamer? article by IGN

BengaBenga said:
KichiVerde said:

Wii is too limited to appeal to most hardcore gamers. Crappy graphics and crappy online alone makes me not want to buy their games. Throw in the fact that 80% of their titles are geared towards kids, and Im left with scant pickings. I have had a Wii for almost two years and the only games I have bought are Zelda, SSBB and Umbrella Chronicles. They are decent games compared to the many disappointments I have rented for Wii. But even those titles I eventually sold back. With my Xbox360 I have bought probably a dozen games in the same amount of time and kept half because of their online replay value.

I grew up with Mario and Zelda, but they didnt grow up with me. The Wii is for kids and casual gamers. The Xbox360 is for people like me. But I wont rip on the Wii. Those casual gamers will one day mature in to hardcore gamers and they will expand the hardcore market. It is what happened with all of Nintendo's previous systems. Video gaming owes a great debt to Nintendo. However, it doesnt mean I have to like their every console.

lol, a nice narrowminded post.

I would actually say that most hardcore gamers need a Wii next to a HD console to get the most out of this generation. The graphics are hardly crappy if devs put some effort in it. Galaxy was a stunning looking game, also compared to HD games. Everytime someone mentions crappy graphics I wonder if they can still enjoy PS2/PS1/SNES games.

Zelda is a great game that easily matches most (if not all) adventure games of this gen. I really wonder what games you are playing on 360 if you can't find anything on Wii. Metacritic has 40 games over 80% rating. If it's only FPS I think you're right that Wii doesn't hold a lot, but I would call you a hardcore FPS gamer, not a hardcore gamer.

Online certainly is limited, but can still be great (Mario Kart is imo the best online experience there is). At the very least you won't be bothered with all kinds of immature kids telling you you suck. Besides a lot of core gamers like single player experiences.

 

 

 

Im sorry but you have to understand something about us old timers.  We are all total graphic whores.  From the days of the original Super Mario Bros. gaming was all about two things, visuals and controls. Nintendo excelled at both. And with each system they upped the ante. Their controllers were always the best, as were their graphics, even if the other systems were superior in terms of hardware (The exception being the N64 era). The selling point was always those two things, and not just them but all the consoles.

 

And then comes the Wii and something changed. First the controls. The Wii mote is innovative yes, but it is only good for a very limited number of games. Othwerwise it is a disadvantage or tiresome for long play.  And hardcore gamers crack out for a long time. Luckily they have backwards controller compatibility for some games but those are far and few between. 

Next the graphics.  You can claim that Mario Galaxy and Mario Kart Wii, or any of their other games look good, but they are still inferior.  The Xbox360 and PS3 are vastly superior machines not only capable of producing a higher polygon count but also placing those 3-d images in a more physically complete environment.  The result is a whole another world of gaming that is quickly distancing itself from the Wii.

Wii can only compensate with improved gameplay which they have been successful at with certain games, even with pitiful online play. However, were they to also have the same level of visuals as their competitors they would be amazing. And that is how it used to be with their previous systems. However this time they opted to go with cheaper hardware and it shows.

 

In any even the vast majority of their games are also targeted towards kids or casual gamers. They have basically conceded the hardcore market. And sure some mature titles are in the line up but those are for teens. For anyone over 21 who has been a gamer for years and has extensively played the PS3 or Xbox360,  I cant see them being very interested in the Wii. Maybe a game here or there may be of value, but its not enough to justify the price of the console.

 

And dont even make the old school game argument.  All the great oldies were great at the time and are deserving of their status. That is why we played them and enjoyed them, but in that context.  And occasionally it is fun to go back and replay something or get one of those games we missed, but never would I consider giving up on the new games just to play old ones. Gaming has evolved.  It has gotten better with each passing year and will continue to do so.  Perhaps in time the Wii will somehow manage to redeem itself in my eyes, but not today or tomorrow.  It is an inferior piece of equipment that does not appeal to a gamer of my stature.





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MaxwellGT2000 said:
senortaco said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Since I'm sure my comments on IGN will fall on deaf ears here's what I replied on the comments section of this article.

"I do agree that 2008 fell a little flat compared to 2007 and will be flat compared to 2009 but I don't agree with all of the hate Wii has gotten this year. I mean everyone says "Oh look at what PS3 and 360 are getting" but forget the fact that in 2007 it wasn't that way sure there was CoD4 and Bioshock (which didn't hit PS3 until 2008) but other then those few gems Wii was the one throwing out the core titles that everyone had to play, early 2008 was nearly as great with Smash and Kart so close to each other and are still titles I'm playing now, you can't expect Nintendo to push titles out all the time as they give them good full development cycles so this is a time period where 3rd parties could have stepped up and shown how their titles can sell on Wii but they didn't.

To bitch and complain about not having a major core game for one holiday season is jumping the gun a bit, many of the normal crowd have a backlog of titles to catch up on in times like this I myself have about 5 Wii titles, 3 rare gamecube titles I found, and some DS and PSP titles I need to play, not to mention things like LBP I co-op with my friend and such, but there was times both Matt and Bozon discussed last year around this time on the Voice chat (Wiik in review at the time) where they said things like "I like my PS3 but there's nothing to play on it right now" and that happened for PS3 for over a year, yet it's horrible that Wii does it for one holiday season. GAH *slaps a cup off the table as I leave the room*"

HA! I read your comment on there pretty good. I was going to make a thread for this article, but I'm glad I searched to see if someone else did...anywho to your comment.

...To me the Wii is being held to a harsher standard then the other home consoles on the market. Cause alot of articles you read it's as if Nintendo didn't release ANY games this year. Yes the 2008 Holiday season has been light for the Wii, but as Denise Kaigler noted just because they didn't release a bunch of games this Holiday season doesn't mean they have abandoned the core gamer. Also, as Matt mention the lineup for the Wii going into 2009 is VERY promising.

But I agree with the overall tone of this article that waiting sucks ass. =D

 

Waiting does suck ass but that has been apart of this business since day 1, it's all because a great game gets announced and unlike movies it can run into major issues and be delayed over 2 years at times.  The real issue I have at the moment is with people jumping on the Wii ever since it came out and now they feel they finally have a legit argument to hate the Wii, first it was a fad or it wasn't good enough with graphics or then the whole "I don't want to move when playing video games" and then you get the shovelware argument when every leading console gets shovelware... so in saying it's getting shovelware is admitting it's beating your all mighty gaming machine/company that can do no wrong.

Really what I'm saying is people are stupid/biased and cannot see any real facts.  Waiting sucks ass but every console has a period of waiting for games, I mean all of 2006 for 360, all of 2007 for PS3, and now Wii has a waiting period at the end of 2008... and will have a shorter wait time for great releases then other consoles... so it's really stupid for people to complain and I mean it's total meltdown bitching I mean no one acted like this for any other console...

I think it's that "left out" feeling that some in the "hard" core gaming community feels. I think it's why the Wii is looked at more critically. Also, like the article pointed out, those "hard" core gamers will never come back, and more then likely or the one that hold the biggest biase toward the Wii.

...Like you mentioned, some of the false negatives that said are dated like a man perm.

 



The Interweb is about overreaction, this is what makes it great!

...Imagine how boring the interweb would be if everyone thought logically?

KichiVerde said:
BengaBenga said:
KichiVerde said:

Wii is too limited to appeal to most hardcore gamers. Crappy graphics and crappy online alone makes me not want to buy their games. Throw in the fact that 80% of their titles are geared towards kids, and Im left with scant pickings. I have had a Wii for almost two years and the only games I have bought are Zelda, SSBB and Umbrella Chronicles. They are decent games compared to the many disappointments I have rented for Wii. But even those titles I eventually sold back. With my Xbox360 I have bought probably a dozen games in the same amount of time and kept half because of their online replay value.

I grew up with Mario and Zelda, but they didnt grow up with me. The Wii is for kids and casual gamers. The Xbox360 is for people like me. But I wont rip on the Wii. Those casual gamers will one day mature in to hardcore gamers and they will expand the hardcore market. It is what happened with all of Nintendo's previous systems. Video gaming owes a great debt to Nintendo. However, it doesnt mean I have to like their every console.

lol, a nice narrowminded post.

I would actually say that most hardcore gamers need a Wii next to a HD console to get the most out of this generation. The graphics are hardly crappy if devs put some effort in it. Galaxy was a stunning looking game, also compared to HD games. Everytime someone mentions crappy graphics I wonder if they can still enjoy PS2/PS1/SNES games.

Zelda is a great game that easily matches most (if not all) adventure games of this gen. I really wonder what games you are playing on 360 if you can't find anything on Wii. Metacritic has 40 games over 80% rating. If it's only FPS I think you're right that Wii doesn't hold a lot, but I would call you a hardcore FPS gamer, not a hardcore gamer.

Online certainly is limited, but can still be great (Mario Kart is imo the best online experience there is). At the very least you won't be bothered with all kinds of immature kids telling you you suck. Besides a lot of core gamers like single player experiences.

 

 

 

Im sorry but you have to understand something about us old timers.  We are all total graphic whores.  From the days of the original Super Mario Bros. gaming was all about two things, visuals and controls. Nintendo excelled at both. And with each system they upped the ante. Their controllers were always the best, as were their graphics, even if the other systems were superior in terms of hardware (The exception being the N64 era). The selling point was always those two things, and not just them but all the consoles.

 

And then comes the Wii and something changed. First the controls. The Wii mote is innovative yes, but it is only good for a very limited number of games. Othwerwise it is a disadvantage or tiresome for long play.  And hardcore gamers crack out for a long time. Luckily they have backwards controller compatibility for some games but those are far and few between. 

Next the graphics.  You can claim that Mario Galaxy and Mario Kart Wii, or any of their other games look good, but they are still inferior.  The Xbox360 and PS3 are vastly superior machines not only capable of producing a higher polygon count but also placing those 3-d images in a more physically complete environment.  The result is a whole another world of gaming that is quickly distancing itself from the Wii.

Wii can only compensate with improved gameplay which they have been successful at with certain games, even with pitiful online play. However, were they to also have the same level of visuals as their competitors they would be amazing. And that is how it used to be with their previous systems. However this time they opted to go with cheaper hardware and it shows.

 

In any even the vast majority of their games are also targeted towards kids or casual gamers. They have basically conceded the hardcore market. And sure some mature titles are in the line up but those are for teens. For anyone over 21 who has been a gamer for years and has extensively played the PS3 or Xbox360,  I cant see them being very interested in the Wii. Maybe a game here or there may be of value, but its not enough to justify the price of the console.

 

And dont even make the old school game argument.  All the great oldies were great at the time and are deserving of their status. That is why we played them and enjoyed them, but in that context.  And occasionally it is fun to go back and replay something or get one of those games we missed, but never would I consider giving up on the new games just to play old ones. Gaming has evolved.  It has gotten better with each passing year and will continue to do so.  Perhaps in time the Wii will somehow manage to redeem itself in my eyes, but not today or tomorrow.  It is an inferior piece of equipment that does not appeal to a gamer of my stature.

 

Sorry I didn't read your wall of text cause of your first statement being 100% bullshit.  True old school gamers would know that PC users looked down upon Nintendo players because their PCs had way better graphics and controls, and said time and time again Nintendo users didn't know the difference cause they were all kids.  So you sir failed before you started.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

senortaco said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
senortaco said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Since I'm sure my comments on IGN will fall on deaf ears here's what I replied on the comments section of this article.

"I do agree that 2008 fell a little flat compared to 2007 and will be flat compared to 2009 but I don't agree with all of the hate Wii has gotten this year. I mean everyone says "Oh look at what PS3 and 360 are getting" but forget the fact that in 2007 it wasn't that way sure there was CoD4 and Bioshock (which didn't hit PS3 until 2008) but other then those few gems Wii was the one throwing out the core titles that everyone had to play, early 2008 was nearly as great with Smash and Kart so close to each other and are still titles I'm playing now, you can't expect Nintendo to push titles out all the time as they give them good full development cycles so this is a time period where 3rd parties could have stepped up and shown how their titles can sell on Wii but they didn't.

To bitch and complain about not having a major core game for one holiday season is jumping the gun a bit, many of the normal crowd have a backlog of titles to catch up on in times like this I myself have about 5 Wii titles, 3 rare gamecube titles I found, and some DS and PSP titles I need to play, not to mention things like LBP I co-op with my friend and such, but there was times both Matt and Bozon discussed last year around this time on the Voice chat (Wiik in review at the time) where they said things like "I like my PS3 but there's nothing to play on it right now" and that happened for PS3 for over a year, yet it's horrible that Wii does it for one holiday season. GAH *slaps a cup off the table as I leave the room*"

HA! I read your comment on there pretty good. I was going to make a thread for this article, but I'm glad I searched to see if someone else did...anywho to your comment.

...To me the Wii is being held to a harsher standard then the other home consoles on the market. Cause alot of articles you read it's as if Nintendo didn't release ANY games this year. Yes the 2008 Holiday season has been light for the Wii, but as Denise Kaigler noted just because they didn't release a bunch of games this Holiday season doesn't mean they have abandoned the core gamer. Also, as Matt mention the lineup for the Wii going into 2009 is VERY promising.

But I agree with the overall tone of this article that waiting sucks ass. =D

 

Waiting does suck ass but that has been apart of this business since day 1, it's all because a great game gets announced and unlike movies it can run into major issues and be delayed over 2 years at times.  The real issue I have at the moment is with people jumping on the Wii ever since it came out and now they feel they finally have a legit argument to hate the Wii, first it was a fad or it wasn't good enough with graphics or then the whole "I don't want to move when playing video games" and then you get the shovelware argument when every leading console gets shovelware... so in saying it's getting shovelware is admitting it's beating your all mighty gaming machine/company that can do no wrong.

Really what I'm saying is people are stupid/biased and cannot see any real facts.  Waiting sucks ass but every console has a period of waiting for games, I mean all of 2006 for 360, all of 2007 for PS3, and now Wii has a waiting period at the end of 2008... and will have a shorter wait time for great releases then other consoles... so it's really stupid for people to complain and I mean it's total meltdown bitching I mean no one acted like this for any other console...

I think it's that "left out" feeling that some in the "hard" core gaming community feels. I think it's why the Wii is looked at more critically. Also, like the article pointed out, those "hard" core gamers will never come back, and more then likely or the one that hold the biggest biase toward the Wii.

...Like you mentioned, some of the false negatives that said are dated like a man perm.

 

 

Yeah it really sucks that people act like a few broader titles make them feel left out, I mean I embraced Wii Sports and Wii Fit they're both fun and get some of my non gamer friends to come hang out when they used to want me to come to their house, then my gamer friends love coming over to play Smash and Kart or play some of my single player games while I help them get through them, plus they'll play the Wii Fit and Wii Sports with me cause it's good fun.  I mean me and my friend played Wii Sports boxing for 3 hours one night until our arms were dead cause we got way to into it. 

I've got a couple of friends that love playing Wii Fit with me cause we want to do yoga without going to a gym and doing yoga classes with a bunch of girls and those feminine male instructors >_>



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

True.  PC games in many ways were superior to the Nintendo, and home consoles.  I know. Ive played PC games starting with Atari and floppy disks (Archon, BurgerTime, Wavy Navy, etc.) and havent stopped since. But for arguments sake Im talking about console gaming here, specifically the 7th generation.  And that makes me think of something else. MS and to a lesser extent Sony, have made strides at bridging the gap between console and PC gaming. Another area Wii has failed.





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@ kichiverde - Please don't catagorize all us old timers as graphic whores. For myself, many others on this site and for many of my friends (all late 30's and up) Wii is the system that has either brought us back into console gaming or the one we prefer.

And for those that are, as always, PC is the way to go. No console, ever has had graphics that can beat a PC.



 

bdbdbd said:


@KichiVerde: For those of us who are older, Wii offers so much more than the HD consoles. It features new and traditional gameplay. It features gameplay where you're supposed to achieve something, instead of just beating the game.
Brawls online didn't work that well, but Mario Kart had the perfect online system (well, communicating in friendmatches, or atleast in the waiting room could have been there).

You had the wrong analogy with Wii, it's not the Bud, it's like Pringles; Once you pop, you can't stop.

I am sorry, but I have to call bs there! I am one of those older gamers, yet wii offers me practically nothing. ;)



Gamerace said:
@ kichiverde - Please don't catagorize all us old timers as graphic whores. For myself, many others on this site and for many of my friends (all late 30's and up) Wii is the system that has either brought us back into console gaming or the one we prefer.

And for those that are, as always, PC is the way to go. No console, ever has had graphics that can beat a PC.

 

 

Yeah you're right. Im just one type of gamer, one who has been disappointed with the Wii.

 

And I like PC games. And they are superior too to the consoles in terms of graphics. But you cant gauge computers like you can a console because they evolve quicker.

Well, Ive had enough and its past my bedtime.





@Esa-Petteri: Well, that's your problem. For me, Wii was the only option.

@KichiVerde: If you were talking about specifically 7th generation of consoles, why in the first place did you mention NES and the 3rd generation?
7th generation isn't that different from the 3rd, Nintendo hits the market with a console, that features last gen tech, new simple control method and a new brand. Nintendos competition in the market was the gaming computers, which were "more than just consoles" with a lot more horsepower.

Ok, so you argue for arguments sake without any factual basis?



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

RolStoppable said:
KichiVerde said:

True.  PC games in many ways were superior to the Nintendo, and home consoles.  I know. Ive played PC games starting with Atari and floppy disks (Archon, BurgerTime, Wavy Navy, etc.) and havent stopped since. But for arguments sake Im talking about console gaming here, specifically the 7th generation.  And that makes me think of something else. MS and to a lesser extent Sony, have made strides at bridging the gap between console and PC gaming. Another area Wii has failed.

And that's precisely why so many people like the Wii.

Defintely one of the reasons I like it.