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Forums - Sales Discussion - I am not a hater, but Wii is not moving software

Sqrl on 13 November 2008
DirtyP2002 said:

Talking about software, the Wii sold 3million units, the PS3 2.4 million and the Xbox360 4.4 million.

Okay, this week is not that representitive, because Gears was a great success for MS and the Xbox 360.

A single week is a terrible way to examine software sales, particularly when the 360 and PS3 both had anticipated games launch during the week you're looking at. You should be looking by quarter or by year, it's far more telling.

 

So checking Wii Software: Wii Sports sold 500k, that game is bundled with every sold Wii from the very first beginning. So you can't say Big N sold this software. Same for Wii Play, which "sold" 200k and is buindled with every controller. So the "real" amount of software sold is 2.3 million. That is less than the PS3 sold on a far lower Userbase. I know Mari Kart and Wii Fit are selling like crazy, but thats another point. Almost every successfull Wii game comes with hardware. The first Wii game that is just a game and NOT bundled with any kind of hardware is Wii Music and it is at 38... Always keep in my mind what amount of Software PS3 or even better Xbox360 would have sold an such a great Userbase.

You dead wrong on Wii sports and I'm really tired of explaining this to people =P 

First : Wii sports is bundled because it gets people to buy the system, not the other way around.  Official software bundles are done to help sell hardware by utilizing the appeal of the software title to their advantage.  Halo 3, MGS4, etc..etc..An official bundle is done by Nin/MS/Sony and their interest is in selling hardware when they bundle not just the software.  The un-official bundles from retailers are the bundles where they are trying to use the appeal of the hardware to sell the software.

Second : If Wii Sports was NOT included in the totals do you honestly believe that some 30 million people would simply have purchased no game to go with their console?  This is faulty logic, if Wii sports wasn't bundled then some other game would be accounted for, you're severely handicapping the Wii, and quite unfairly, by trying to remove this title from the comparison.

Wii sports needs to be included because it is in fact the ONLY fair way to do the comparison.

Things are not looking great for other publishers except Nintendo. Besides GH:WT (bundled with hardware) there is one (!!!) other game in the top 50, that is not published by Nintendo, ranked 50th.

The chart put out by nintendo was completely legitimate despite your dismissal of it.  They used NPD data in a standard launch aligned graph of software sales, it doesn't get much more straightforward.  3rd Parties are doing fine on the Wii, the fact that Nintendo is doing better doesn't automatically mean that the 3rd parties have to do terribly.  The software market is not a zero-sum game, both Nintendo and third parties can do well, and that is what is happening here.

Animal Crossing will sell like crazy, but mostly in Japan I guess. And just one game for a holiday-season is not that great. The hardware will keep on selling, but software is really behind my expectations. So this is not a "Wii is doomed thread!"

So in one breath you complain about Nintendo dominating the software too much then you complain that they aren't doing enough...uhm..what?

 

PS - More responses coming.

 
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Sqrl on 13 November 2008
DirtyP2002 said:

Another question, why does the Wii have 29 million sellers 15 (16 if you count Sonic / Mario) published by Big N and the Xbox 360 47 million sellers (11 published by MS). Of course the Wii has a 13.5 million (!!!) larger Userbase. They should have significantly more million sellers shouldn't they?

Please poit out, where I am wrong.

*edit* 5 of the 29 million seller are bundled with hardware in any form.

This one should be blatantly obvious honestly =P

But I happen to have the exact data to explain it, so give me one moment...

Ok, software sales are a function of two factors and you, like many others, are ignoring one in favor of the other. The two factors are installed hardware units and length of ownership for those installed units.  Simply looking at the installed units is akin to thinking that cooking involved getting the right temperature for the oven but ignoring the amount of time it has been in the oven.

The data reflects this as a quick check of my spreadsheet shows that the average 360 owner has owned his/her console for just shy of 70 weeks.  This compared to the Wii where the average owner has had their console for about 46 weeks. In short 360 owners have had their consoles about 50% longer. 

If you add into this the fact that the 360 had a much less competitive market for a full year as well it gives them another little boost and an advantage.

 
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Sqrl on 13 November 2008
DirtyP2002 said:
Leni said:
the Wii, selling software??

let's say Wii Play doesn't count:

Wii Fit: 10m

Mario Kart Wii : 9.5m

Super Smash Bros Brawl: 7.3m

Super Mario Galaxy: 7.3m

Mario and Sonic: 5.8m

Mario Party 8: 5.6m

Zelda: Twilight Princess: 4.9m

No Sony/Ms games on Ps3/Xbox360 sold like this, so it's really stupid to say the Wii doesn't sell software, it does, even during this period, with no big releases!!

Wii games are selling slow and steady, worthy 3rd parties like Resident Evil, Star Wars, Boom Blox, Tales of Symphonia and so on are selling well, i don't think there is a problem!!

also, 2009 is the year of the Wii!!

 

  • Halo3  8.4m
  • Call of Duty4  10.3m (PS360)
  • GTA IV  11m (PS360)
  • Gears of War 5.31m
  • Assassins Creed 6.94m

Well after such a star, what do u think GoW2 might sell?

And the period the Wii isn't selling software is the year 2008 so far... and to be continued? Well the Userbase is like PS3 and Xbox360 combined and the Wii is not selling the software like the PS3 and the XBox360 combined.

 

 

Out of curiosity what are you using to base your assumption on?  Your assumption is that the function of increased hardware sales necessarily demands a linear increase in software sales.  I've never seen this established so I was wondering if you had something to base this on?

In fact if you examine PS2 sales a larger installed base frequently meant games had smaller attach ratios.

 
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Sqrl on 13 November 2008
DirtyP2002 said:
shams said:

Firstly - there is NO correlation between install base and software sales. If anything, its almost the opposite. How much software did the PS2 sell this week? How about the GBA? And worldwide, the PSP has an install base almost 3x that of the PS3... and so what software-wise?

Secondly - if you are talking *specifically* for this week, then yes - you are right. But that is NOT enough data to extend that into a "Wii does not move software" theory - in fact, its completely incorrect.

Thirdly - its only *slightly* biased if you don't take into account the number of new releases that each platform has received over the last month or so. Slightly of course, in this case meaning "completely".

...

The current weekly charts say this:

Ratio
4,414,782 (+48%) 165,003,939 7.32
2,999,005 (-3%) 183,466,168 5.10
2,616,560 (+30%) 307,449,759 3.61
2,427,271 (+12%) 84,256,247 5.04

Note the bit about the "total software sales" - even if you subtract WiiSports & WiiPlay (which is not fair - firstly because Nintendo do SELL and make money off WiiSports - and even more so with WiiPlay) - the Wii is still considerably ahead of the PS3, and almost on par with the 360.

So... if the Wii doesn't move software, then the same theory applies 2x to the PS3. And considering that the 360 has had a year start - based on "per-year sales", the Wii is easily beating both the HD consoles.

Theory completely debunked.

 

You can't be serious with that part, right? you compare the sales of Last Gen software with sales of the current gen and take that as a proof, install base has nothing to do with software-sales? That made you look stupid. Yeah... the bigger the install base, the worse the software-sales... That's why everybody wanted to release the software on the DC a few years ago, right?

First of all: If you continue to say things like the bolded you will get a ban.  Stick to the substance of the issue or I will see to that.

Now, back on the issue:

The contention being made is not that a larger install base means less software sales, its that software sales do not increase linearly with installed hardware.  And this is absolutely the case. You asked for folks to explain what you're missing and we are, we can't help it if you won't accept the answer. Perhaps instead of insulting people and plugging your ears to the idea you should raise the issues you have with the concept so they can be addressed.

A good start would be actually reading Sham's post as it does a good job of explaining why your assertion of the Wii not selling software is plainly incorrect.

 

 
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Chadius on 13 November 2008

*emerges from hiding*

Good to see the site hasn't changed.



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kylohk on 13 November 2008

Most attach rate comparisons involving the Wii are inherently biased against it because many of them disregard Wii Sports/Play, when many people actually play those games and enjoy them, thus causing them to delay the purchase of a second game.



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Zucas on 13 November 2008
DirtyP2002 said:

Okay guys,

First of all: I like Nintendo. I had a N64 and had a great time with it. I love Zelda-games, but the Wii is not my type of console. I just don't like the controlls.

I know, the Wii is selling an insane amount of hardware and I am happy for Big N, but software is a whole other story.

Talking about software, the Wii sold 3million units, the PS3 2.4 million and the Xbox360 4.4 million.

Okay, this week is not that representitive, because Gears was a great success for MS and the Xbox 360.

So checking Wii Software: Wii Sports sold 500k, that game is bundled with every sold Wii from the very first beginning. So you can't say Big N sold this software. Same for Wii Play, which "sold" 200k and is buindled with every controller. So the "real" amount of software sold is 2.3 million. That is less than the PS3 sold on a far lower Userbase. I know Mari Kart and Wii Fit are selling like crazy, but thats another point. Almost every successfull Wii game comes with hardware. The first Wii game that is just a game and NOT bundled with any kind of hardware is Wii Music and it is at 38... Always keep in my mind what amount of Software PS3 or even better Xbox360 would have sold an such a great Userbase.

Things are not looking great for other publishers except Nintendo. Besides GH:WT (bundled with hardware) there is one (!!!) other game in the top 50, that is not published by Nintendo, ranked 50th.

Animal Crossing will sell like crazy, but mostly in Japan I guess. And just one game for a holiday-season is not that great. The hardware will keep on selling, but software is really behind my expectations. So this is not a "Wii is doomed thread!"

 

 

 

But Nintendo does sell Wii Sports. If no one bought the console then the game wouldn't sell either. Same with any bundled game. They are sold just not a lone. And Wii Play ISNT bundled. If you were going to make the relation the controller is bundled with the game not the game bundled with the controller. I mean if that's your argument then Guitar Hero game software sales don't count because obviously they are buying the shell of a guitar not the game.

Either way your argument is flawed and silly. No matter what condition software is sold, as long as it isn't free it is sold. It could be bundled with a console, peripheal, another game, ect. In the end it is being sold. Differentiating such as what they were buying in that bundle is speculation and assumption which we don't do in sales.

And now you are trying to say that Wii Music isn't doing well because it doesn't have hardware. Well Brawl and Galaxy have sold over 7 million and they don't have hardware. Mario Kart Wii would have sold just as well without the wheel. Wii Fit couldn't have worked without it's hardware. This argument not only doesn't make sense but it's childish you'd even bring it up. Like a meager understanding of sales by even suggesting that haha because it shows such a limited view on Wii software sales. Sure the 4 top selling games all have something bundled with them but easily take those bundles out and MK Wii, Wii Sport, and Wii Play all sell still pretty damn good. Wii Fit, of course, coudln't work without the balance board.

So now that you've presented easily one of the most silly arguments let's look at what you conclude. Publishers on Nintendo are not doing as well as they would do on the other consoles. I'd say there is 2 dominant reasons for this. First on PS3 or 360, 3rd parties DONT have to compete with Nintendo. It must be so great for 3rd parties to not have to compete with the biggest developer in the world. I mean MS and Sony games are in no way the same league of dominance as Nintendo franchises. That's just fact. Secondly, they don't give Wii the same content they give PS360. PS360 get the largest, most hyped, and biggest brand franchises every year while Wii gets the titles that fund them. And every now and then Wii will get a nice franchise but they won't advertise it like it. So it's amazing as it stands that Wii has been able to have more 3rd party million sellers than 1st party million sellers considering it shouldn't be like that. I guess they have to buy something after they finished buying the 1st party games.

So really I'd say software is not doing so bad but it could be so much better if early on Wii got what PS360 had. Might be too late to reverse that trend but we'll see what 2009 has to offer.



blazinhead89 on 13 November 2008

@shams. If install base has nothing to do with software sales, then why did Final Fantasy XIII, Tekken 6, DMC4, etc. go Multiplat? To get less sales, please explain. I Mean i know a certain few people say that's why they went Multiplat, because of the PS3 Limited userbase.



GlingGling on 13 November 2008

DirtyP2002 likes himself a good ol' fashioned CrazzyMan fight. If that's the way it's going to be then we should all leave right now. Our efforts of reason have no power here.



Shinlock on 13 November 2008

(note haven't read the entire thread, just the op's post)

The OP is insane.

wii does move software, the sales back that up. You _could_ argue it isn't so flash for 3rd party developers but 2 reasonings come to mind

- alot of the 3rd party software sucks
- Competing vs Nintendo's inhouse games = Big ask.