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Forums - Sales Discussion - Is it just me or for all the Wii hype do the PS360 sell more software?

Majin-Tenshinhan on 05 November 2008
Gamerace said:
Chrizum said:
Ail said:
The Wii hype isn't making the HD console sell more software.
But for the first time the success of one console isn't actually affecting the catalog of games of the other 2 consoles.

If Wii hadn't happened, HD consoles would be getting exactly the same games lol...
So we can safely go back to ignoring it and playing our favorite games..

That's where you're wrong. Monster Hunter 3, Fatal Frame 4 and the Tenchu series would've stayed on PS3 (or maybe also on the 360) if it weren't for the Wii. In fact, most Japanese centric franchises will probably shift to the Wii instead of the HD consoles. Only the western developers are ignoring the Wii.

And while it pains me to say it, FF4 and Tenchu 4 have suffered saleswise because of it. Hopefully MH3 sells 2m like it's PSP versions. Of course while FF4 and Tenchu 4 may have had better sales on PS3 it'd be at a much higher cost and even greater loss. For Japan, developers still seem best off developing for PS2.

 

 

Tenchu I'll give you, but Fatal Frame 4 sold better than the other games in the series iirc... So, no, I don't think it suffered.



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dib8rman on 05 November 2008

Sorry TWroo

I posted that very late, I was on this page when Mr. Stick Ball's post was the last post. ^_^



I'm Unamerica and you can too.

The Official Huge Monster Hunter Thread: 



The Hunt Begins 4/20/2010 =D

Ail on 05 November 2008
sparkit34 said:
PS360 always lead the software chart, but rarely does any software may it in the top 10 2 months in a row. Many Nintendo games however have made the top 10 many months (some even years) in a row.

Look at nintendogs. Probably never made the top 10 NPD, and yet it has outsold every P360 game in the top 10 ever. Same as Wii Fit and Mario Kart Wii btw.
Lets be honest. Fable II sold almost a million copies worldwide last week and will probably make the NPD top 3 for the month, and yet it will probably be outsold by Wii Music, which possibly won't even ever make the NPD top 10.

 

That proves three things :

- HD console games have bad legs compared to Wii games

- HD console actually have new releases on a regular basis ( it's not the same old same old on top of the chartz every month).

- Wii hasn't released any big title Since Mario Kart and Wii Fit..

You can argue all week long that titles like Mario Kart, SSBB and Wii Fit rocks the house, noone is going to deny it. But if you happen to game a lot those 3 titles only get you so far... 



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

Chrizum on 05 November 2008
Gamerace said:
Chrizum said:
Ail said:
The Wii hype isn't making the HD console sell more software.
But for the first time the success of one console isn't actually affecting the catalog of games of the other 2 consoles.

If Wii hadn't happened, HD consoles would be getting exactly the same games lol...
So we can safely go back to ignoring it and playing our favorite games..

That's where you're wrong. Monster Hunter 3, Fatal Frame 4 and the Tenchu series would've stayed on PS3 (or maybe also on the 360) if it weren't for the Wii. In fact, most Japanese centric franchises will probably shift to the Wii instead of the HD consoles. Only the western developers are ignoring the Wii.

And while it pains me to say it, FF4 and Tenchu 4 have suffered saleswise because of it.  Hopefully MH3 sells 2m like it's PSP versions.  Of course while FF4 and Tenchu 4 may have had better sales on PS3 it'd be at a much higher cost and even greater loss.  For Japan, developers still seem best off developing for PS2.

 

Tenchu? Yes. Fatal Frame? Not so much. FF4 is the best selling game in the series. Well, in Japan anyway. It's true Sony at least let it release in the west. Nintendo insists in keeping it Japan only.

 



Gamerace on 05 November 2008
Chrizum said:
Gamerace said:
Chrizum said:
Ail said:
The Wii hype isn't making the HD console sell more software.
But for the first time the success of one console isn't actually affecting the catalog of games of the other 2 consoles.

If Wii hadn't happened, HD consoles would be getting exactly the same games lol...
So we can safely go back to ignoring it and playing our favorite games..

That's where you're wrong. Monster Hunter 3, Fatal Frame 4 and the Tenchu series would've stayed on PS3 (or maybe also on the 360) if it weren't for the Wii. In fact, most Japanese centric franchises will probably shift to the Wii instead of the HD consoles. Only the western developers are ignoring the Wii.

And while it pains me to say it, FF4 and Tenchu 4 have suffered saleswise because of it.  Hopefully MH3 sells 2m like it's PSP versions.  Of course while FF4 and Tenchu 4 may have had better sales on PS3 it'd be at a much higher cost and even greater loss.  For Japan, developers still seem best off developing for PS2.

 

Tenchu? Yes. Fatal Frame? Not so much. FF4 is the best selling game in the series. Well, in Japan anyway. It's true Sony at least let it release in the west. Nintendo insists in keeping it Japan only.

 

Are you sure Nintendo is preventing it from releasing elsewhere?  They are not publishing it outside of Japan but I havn't heard anything Nintendo blocking anyone else from picking it up.   Even when it was with Sony there was a long wait between the Japanese release and NA. 

And it just better release in NA or I'll be pissed.  D:DoC is bad enough.

 



 

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sparkit34 on 06 November 2008
Ail said:
sparkit34 said:
PS360 always lead the software chart, but rarely does any software may it in the top 10 2 months in a row. Many Nintendo games however have made the top 10 many months (some even years) in a row.

Look at nintendogs. Probably never made the top 10 NPD, and yet it has outsold every P360 game in the top 10 ever. Same as Wii Fit and Mario Kart Wii btw.
Lets be honest. Fable II sold almost a million copies worldwide last week and will probably make the NPD top 3 for the month, and yet it will probably be outsold by Wii Music, which possibly won't even ever make the NPD top 10.

 

That proves three things :

- HD console games have bad legs compared to Wii games (i agree)

- HD console actually have new releases on a regular basis ( it's not the same old same old on top of the chartz every month). Or the exact opposite, PS360 has a lot less releases and so less titles are competing for consumer budgets!!

- Wii hasn't released any big title Since Mario Kart and Wii Fit.. (No, but thats because all big games have been announced for release in the next 6 months. It is also mainly because third party developers underestimated the Wii and therefore most AAA games are only nearing completion now.Nintendo on the other hand will have released 5 million sellers this year on the Wii alone, not many developers can boast that on any console)

You can argue all week long that titles like Mario Kart, SSBB and Wii Fit rocks the house, noone is going to deny it. But if you happen to game a lot those 3 titles only get you so far... (Legend of Zelda, Wii Sports, World of Goo, Super Mario Galaxy, Guitar Hero, No More Heroes, Okami, de Blob, Zack and Wiki, Boom Blox, Metroid Prime 3, Resident Evil, Paper Mario, Tiger Woods,  not to mention at least 10 must have VC games, thats about 2000 hours worth of gaming there. And thats only what is already out!!!! Thats more games that about 90 percent of all gamers will ever buy, and that does not include about 10 AAA titles already announced for next year. I can't believe people are still saying there are no good games on the Wii.  )   


I think the main point i was trying to make is that the Wii has brought into play a new dynamic whereby games sell over extended periods of time. Games may not make the top ten, but will spend months in the top 40.

As Wii games don't sell huge amounts at release, there are no articles about first week sales, so people think games on the Wii don't sell, when in fact, the Wii sells more games than any other console this generation at the moment, and will probably continue to do so for some time to come. 

 

 



Member of the Pikmin Fan Club

Oyvoyvoyv on 06 November 2008
TWRoO said:
famousringo said:
mrstickball said:
famousringo said:

But this point isn't really as interesting as you make it out to be. Consoles which sell less hardware usually have a higher software attach ratio.

Wrong. No console in history has ever proved it.

The Playstation 2 (highest selling system of all time) has had a global attatch ratio of over 10 software units to 1 hardware unit. The Gamecube didn't even reach that.

If anything, it's the inverse: A console that leads usually has the better attach ratio since software titles are more abundant, and as the system has a longer lifespan, it gets a better attach ratio, since users still have a reason to play on the old system.

Even the DS is breaking away from the standard handheld mold thanks to the overwhelming support the console has received. Normally, handhelds move a mere 5.0 software units when they are lucky. According to Nintendo (and someone can correct me on this if I'm wrong), the DS has already moved 500,000,000+ units of software on 80,000,000 Nintendo DSes - which would be above a 6.0 attach ratio.

 

It was my understanding that these effects largely kick in towards the end of the generation, and early on the slow sellers end up with a higher attach ratio. Or am I wrong about that, as well as being insufficiently specific in my previous post?

Kind of true, although if you check PS2 WW ratio for the last week it was less than 10:1 for games:consoles (which implies the LTD ratios are decreasing) this could be due to the less reliable data for older systems, PS2 will be missing more titles still selling weekly than the other consoles.

What you can do is check shipment data of Wii vs. PS2 though (ok PS2 is "production shipments" which is a little misleading but it will have to do)

PS2 production shipments after September 2002:
(This puts the launches for Europe and America rouhgly aligned with Wii, but gives PS2 a 7-8 month advantage in Japan)

HW - 41.56 million (likely about 36 to 38 million sold to retail)
SW - 229.0 million (I have no idea... perhaps ~220 million to retail)

Wii sales (shipment to retail) after September 2008

HW - (My estimate is ~ 41 million produced) 34.55 million sold
SW - (??? dunno, maybe ~ 235 million produced) 229.85 million sold

-------

It's hard to say given the differences in the reporting method.... but ratios using the same type should be ok

PS2 ratio - 5.51

Wii ratio - 6.65 (doesn't include Wii Sports)

Of course the shipments to retail favour a higher attach ratio slightly because games generally won't need to be stored away for long after they are produced.
So for arguments sake:

PS2 ratio estimate - 5.79 to 6.11

Wii ratio estimate - 5.73 (again, not including Wii Sports)

-------

Thus I think it is fair to say the Wii is selling more software than the PS2 was at the same point in it's life, I even gave the PS2 an advantage of some extra time in Japan (although that won't have made too much of a difference to the total)

 

This post is gold. Great analysis, and a shocking conclusion.

 



http://www.vgchartz.com/games/userreviewdisp.php?id=261

That is VGChartz LONGEST review. And it's NOT Cute Kitten DS

scottie on 06 November 2008

Hey sharky, I can show you a few of the useful tools VGChartz has to offer.

If you go here
http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly.php

You can see the weekly software sales, total software sales and attach ratios (these figures aren't fully acurate, but they're close)

Total software sales
Wii - 177 mill
360 - 157 mill
PS3 - 82 mill

So no, they don't infact sell more software



Ail on 06 November 2008
sparkit34 said:
Ail said:
sparkit34 said:
PS360 always lead the software chart, but rarely does any software may it in the top 10 2 months in a row. Many Nintendo games however have made the top 10 many months (some even years) in a row.

Look at nintendogs. Probably never made the top 10 NPD, and yet it has outsold every P360 game in the top 10 ever. Same as Wii Fit and Mario Kart Wii btw.
Lets be honest. Fable II sold almost a million copies worldwide last week and will probably make the NPD top 3 for the month, and yet it will probably be outsold by Wii Music, which possibly won't even ever make the NPD top 10.

 

That proves three things :

- HD console games have bad legs compared to Wii games (i agree)

- HD console actually have new releases on a regular basis ( it's not the same old same old on top of the chartz every month). Or the exact opposite, PS360 has a lot less releases and so less titles are competing for consumer budgets!!

- Wii hasn't released any big title Since Mario Kart and Wii Fit.. (No, but thats because all big games have been announced for release in the next 6 months. It is also mainly because third party developers underestimated the Wii and therefore most AAA games are only nearing completion now.Nintendo on the other hand will have released 5 million sellers this year on the Wii alone, not many developers can boast that on any console)

You can argue all week long that titles like Mario Kart, SSBB and Wii Fit rocks the house, noone is going to deny it. But if you happen to game a lot those 3 titles only get you so far... (Legend of Zelda, Wii Sports, World of Goo, Super Mario Galaxy, Guitar Hero, No More Heroes, Okami, de Blob, Zack and Wiki, Boom Blox, Metroid Prime 3, Resident Evil, Paper Mario, Tiger Woods,  not to mention at least 10 must have VC games, thats about 2000 hours worth of gaming there. And thats only what is already out!!!! Thats more games that about 90 percent of all gamers will ever buy, and that does not include about 10 AAA titles already announced for next year. I can't believe people are still saying there are no good games on the Wii.  )   


I think the main point i was trying to make is that the Wii has brought into play a new dynamic whereby games sell over extended periods of time. Games may not make the top ten, but will spend months in the top 40.

As Wii games don't sell huge amounts at release, there are no articles about first week sales, so people think games on the Wii don't sell, when in fact, the Wii sells more games than any other console this generation at the moment, and will probably continue to do so for some time to come. 

 

 

 

I've bought more games than you listed in the last 12 months and some of those were Warhawk or DMC4 which both occupied me each for 250 hours+...

You had to dig into every title released on the Wii to come up with that list  and none of those with the possible exception of the new Guitar hero came within the last 6 months. I stand by my point, Wii releases have been poor recently and there are not enough of them to satisfy a gamer...



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

Chrizum on 06 November 2008
Ail said:
sparkit34 said:
Ail said:
sparkit34 said:
PS360 always lead the software chart, but rarely does any software may it in the top 10 2 months in a row. Many Nintendo games however have made the top 10 many months (some even years) in a row.

Look at nintendogs. Probably never made the top 10 NPD, and yet it has outsold every P360 game in the top 10 ever. Same as Wii Fit and Mario Kart Wii btw.
Lets be honest. Fable II sold almost a million copies worldwide last week and will probably make the NPD top 3 for the month, and yet it will probably be outsold by Wii Music, which possibly won't even ever make the NPD top 10.

 

That proves three things :

- HD console games have bad legs compared to Wii games (i agree)

- HD console actually have new releases on a regular basis ( it's not the same old same old on top of the chartz every month). Or the exact opposite, PS360 has a lot less releases and so less titles are competing for consumer budgets!!

- Wii hasn't released any big title Since Mario Kart and Wii Fit.. (No, but thats because all big games have been announced for release in the next 6 months. It is also mainly because third party developers underestimated the Wii and therefore most AAA games are only nearing completion now.Nintendo on the other hand will have released 5 million sellers this year on the Wii alone, not many developers can boast that on any console)

You can argue all week long that titles like Mario Kart, SSBB and Wii Fit rocks the house, noone is going to deny it. But if you happen to game a lot those 3 titles only get you so far... (Legend of Zelda, Wii Sports, World of Goo, Super Mario Galaxy, Guitar Hero, No More Heroes, Okami, de Blob, Zack and Wiki, Boom Blox, Metroid Prime 3, Resident Evil, Paper Mario, Tiger Woods,  not to mention at least 10 must have VC games, thats about 2000 hours worth of gaming there. And thats only what is already out!!!! Thats more games that about 90 percent of all gamers will ever buy, and that does not include about 10 AAA titles already announced for next year. I can't believe people are still saying there are no good games on the Wii.  )   


I think the main point i was trying to make is that the Wii has brought into play a new dynamic whereby games sell over extended periods of time. Games may not make the top ten, but will spend months in the top 40.

As Wii games don't sell huge amounts at release, there are no articles about first week sales, so people think games on the Wii don't sell, when in fact, the Wii sells more games than any other console this generation at the moment, and will probably continue to do so for some time to come. 

 

 

 

I've bought more games than you listed in the last 12 months and some of those were Warhawk or DMC4 which both occupied me each for 250 hours+...

You had to dig into every title released on the Wii to come up with that list  and none of those with the possible exception of the new Guitar hero came within the last 6 months. I stand by my point, Wii releases have been poor recently and there are not enough of them to satisfy a gamer...

Actually, Boom Blox, de Blob and World of Goo did get released within the last 6 months. In fact, World of Goo just came out this month. Man, you keep making a fool out of yourself, how hard can it be to just check your facts before opening your big mouth?