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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Pre-owned market is "defrauding the industry"

DMeisterJ on 30 October 2008
rocketpig said:
Blah blah blah, wah wah wah.

I guess we're all lucky that Detroit and Tokyo don't expect us to crush our cars when we're done with them. God knows how much the used car market eats into their bottom line.

Some of these developers need to pull their heads out of their asses and realize that if you make a good product, charge a fair price for it, and don't try to screw the customer at every turn, you'll get sales and make money. The used game business is no different than any other used business; it serves a great purpose for those that don't have enough money to buy every game brand new while it also puts money back into the system as people who buy new games sell their old games and use that money to purchase another new game.

The short-sighted nature of some people is really appalling.

But developers don't have any control over the price.

Used games and cars are different.  With a used dealership car, you still give the maker money, and with a used car from a lot, you pay a lot less, and your car generally is broke down in a couple of seconds.  Used games on the other hand are used again, and again, and again, fifteen times while gamestop makes 55 dollars each time.  That sucks for developers and people who can spend 5 dollars to buy a new game, but can't, bcuz GS wants to make a few bucks. 

@ Final-Fan

What about stores that should be carrying new games carrying used games just to make money?  Should we not be mad at them?



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Godot on 30 October 2008

The used game market as always been there. In fact, it's there in all markets that are not offering services as opposed to products.

What about craigslist, ebay? I got a lot/sold a lot of used games using those services.



How many cups of darkness have I drank over the years? Even I don't know...

 

Ail on 30 October 2008

Can't compare used cars and used games.
A car like any physical object looses value over its use( especially something like a car that has a definitive average lifetime defined by its mileage).
A game doesn't.

You don't get the same value buying a 5 year old car and a brand new one, you do for games...



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

rocketpig on 30 October 2008
DMeisterJ said:
rocketpig said:
Blah blah blah, wah wah wah.

I guess we're all lucky that Detroit and Tokyo don't expect us to crush our cars when we're done with them. God knows how much the used car market eats into their bottom line.

Some of these developers need to pull their heads out of their asses and realize that if you make a good product, charge a fair price for it, and don't try to screw the customer at every turn, you'll get sales and make money. The used game business is no different than any other used business; it serves a great purpose for those that don't have enough money to buy every game brand new while it also puts money back into the system as people who buy new games sell their old games and use that money to purchase another new game.

The short-sighted nature of some people is really appalling.

But developers don't have any control over the price.

Used games and cars are different.  With a used dealership car, you still give the maker money, and with a used car from a lot, you pay a lot less, and your car generally is broke down in a couple of seconds.  Used games on the other hand are used again, and again, and again, fifteen times while gamestop makes 55 dollars each time.  That sucks for developers and people who can spend 5 dollars to buy a new game, but can't, bcuz GS wants to make a few bucks. 

@ Final-Fan

What about stores that should be carrying new games carrying used games just to make money?  Should we not be mad at them?

Then developers should learn to make games that fit the business model better. Look at Rock Band... You get 20 extra songs for buying the game new. That's a pretty huge incentive. If you buy it used, you still get a shitload of songs on the disc... Win-win for everybody.

There are ways to keep new sales up while keeping the used market flourishing. Developers shouldn't get pissed when their offline, 7 hour game gets recycled through used bins for two years and they lose money from it. They offered a product that customers didn't feel was worth their $60 investment on launch day. That's their fault, not the savvy consumer who walks into a store and pays $20 less for the game used two months after launch.

Secondly, where are the complaints about how consumers are getting fucked through digital distribution? No disc, no packaging, no retailer to split profits... Yet we get charged the same price for it. In typical form, these business owners are profiting from the new business model through digital distribution and then complaining that 100% of things aren't going their way because they also lose money from used sales.

Cake - Eating = STFU, you whiny developers.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

rocketpig on 30 October 2008
Ail said:
Can't compare used cars and used games.
A car like any physical object looses value over its use( especially something like a car that has a definitive average lifetime defined by its mileage).
A game doesn't.

You don't get the same value buying a 5 year old car and a brand new one, you do for games...

Then change that to CDs, DVDs, books, or any other product that has been sold on the used market since time began.

 




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

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Gamerace on 30 October 2008

It's a difficult situation to be sure.

People can easily buy used movies, books, furniture, cars, etc. too so this is no novelty to the games industry. What is different is the condition of the used copy. It's 99% as good as getting it new and used games are available within days of release, instead of weeks/months for dvds. Also you can return that used game a week later for a near full refund. It's like a $5 rental.

But I don't think added content for 'new' copies will help - much. It just means the used version will sell for $10 less instead of $5 less.

Nintendo again has the right idea. Make the game so damn fun and addictive you just don't ever want to part with it. And then don't make a new edition every year. Problem (mostly) solved.



 

Ail on 30 October 2008
rocketpig said:
DMeisterJ said:
rocketpig said:
Blah blah blah, wah wah wah.

I guess we're all lucky that Detroit and Tokyo don't expect us to crush our cars when we're done with them. God knows how much the used car market eats into their bottom line.

Some of these developers need to pull their heads out of their asses and realize that if you make a good product, charge a fair price for it, and don't try to screw the customer at every turn, you'll get sales and make money. The used game business is no different than any other used business; it serves a great purpose for those that don't have enough money to buy every game brand new while it also puts money back into the system as people who buy new games sell their old games and use that money to purchase another new game.

The short-sighted nature of some people is really appalling.

But developers don't have any control over the price.

Used games and cars are different.  With a used dealership car, you still give the maker money, and with a used car from a lot, you pay a lot less, and your car generally is broke down in a couple of seconds.  Used games on the other hand are used again, and again, and again, fifteen times while gamestop makes 55 dollars each time.  That sucks for developers and people who can spend 5 dollars to buy a new game, but can't, bcuz GS wants to make a few bucks. 

@ Final-Fan

What about stores that should be carrying new games carrying used games just to make money?  Should we not be mad at them?

Then developers should learn to make games that fit the business model better. Look at Rock Band... You get 20 extra songs for buying the game new. That's a pretty huge incentive. If you buy it used, you still get a shitload of songs on the disc... Win-win for everybody.

There are ways to keep new sales up while keeping the used market flourishing. Developers shouldn't get pissed when their offline, 7 hour game gets recycled through used bins for two years and they lose money from it. They offered a product that customers didn't feel was worth their $60 investment on launch day. That's their fault, not the savvy consumer who walks into a store and pays $20 less for the game used two months after launch.

Secondly, where are the complaints about how consumers are getting fucked through digital distribution? No disc, no packaging, no retailer to split profits... Yet we get charged the same price for it. In typical form, these business owners are profiting from the new business model through digital distribution and then complaining that 100% of things aren't going their way because they also lose money from used sales.

Cake - Eating = STFU, you whiny developers.

EA tried, you got more install for buying Spore new than used, you guys bitched like mad lol ;)

The new product clearly had more features than a used one though !

 



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

rocketpig on 30 October 2008

I didn't bitch, Ail. I think that's a fair trade-off. Give the new purchase more content (though don't start sacrificing core content and bitch out on the process) and people who really want the game will buy it. There will still be a used market, but the price will be lower - cutting into Gamestop's ridiculously fat margins - and incentive to wait and purchase used will largely be gone.

This kind of whining reminds me of the MPAA in the late 90s. They were making money, got fat, and didn't change to cater to the market. When the market changed without them and they started suffering, they started kicking and screaming and tried to change laws to suit their old, fat business model.

Life doesn't work that way. Evolve with the times or get left behind. How much better shape would the recording industry be in right now if they had set up an iTunes-esque model in 1998?




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

theprof00 on 30 October 2008
rocketpig said:

I didn't bitch, Ail. I think that's a fair trade-off. Give the new purchase more content (though don't start sacrificing core content and bitch out on the process) and people who really want the game will buy it. There will still be a used market, but the price will be lower - cutting into Gamestop's ridiculously fat margins - and incentive to wait and purchase used will largely be gone.

This kind of whining reminds me of the MPAA in the late 90s. They were making money, got fat, and didn't change to cater to the market. When the market changed without them and they started suffering, they started kicking and screaming and tried to change laws to suit their old, fat business model.

Life doesn't work that way. Evolve with the times or get left behind. How much better shape would the recording industry be in right now if they had set up an iTunes-esque model in 1998?

I completely agree.

All games need to avoid overuse of Preused/pirating is

new content for new games / DLC by a code.

 



Ail on 30 October 2008

Easy, only ship 90% of the game on the DVD and require the user to download the last 10% !

I should patent this !



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !