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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - I Believe..The End Of The 360 - A 360 Fanboy's Point Of View

ckmlb said:
Man if you are this depressed as a 360 owner/fan I think you would have committed suicide if you were a PS3 owner/fan...

 I almost did, thank god I got alien syndrome for Wii today.  Surprisingly it's turning out pretty good.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

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carlos710 said:
Diomedes:

The ps3 already dropped his prince in japan as far as i know.

And lol at saying that Nintendo doesn't have the developing power of sony... i hope you are joking.

The PS3 hasnt had any price drop since it was launched in Japan .It was launched at a lower price that announced in E3 2006 ,for sure ,but that isnt a price drop while in the stores .

 Second ,I am not joking about developer power .Right now Sony has nearly 100 developer teams worlwide ,let alone all those engineers doing the firmware updates ,those others helping for example Epic with the optimization of the Unreal engine ,plus all the others charged of the online section such as the PSN and developing Home .

 Nintendo has barely any of this .I would be hard pressed to name more than 4-5 second parties of Nintendo .Most of their work seems to be done by Miyamoto with the help of some internal developers here and there.Even long time second parties as Camelot and Rare arent related to Nintendo anymore ,and Silicon Knights and Factor 5 have changed their work to MS and Sony respectively  .

What are exactly Nintendo  developing righ now ?Well we know Miyamoto is working in Mario Galaxy ,the occidental second party they have charged for Metroid is developing Metroid Corruption ,then they are doing Wii Fit where Miyamoto will be involved ,Mario Kart with some internal developer under Miyamoto supervision ....they didnt announce nearly anything for the DS in E3 ,then they are doing baby steps in their online system and channels at a pace that if it was sony we would say is desperating slow ...and thats about it.Most of the product they have released is only ports from the Cube transferred to the Wii and DS conversions  .I forgot Mario Smash Bros ...ok .That gives some 5 games in development right now ,4 of them under direct control of Miyamoty .Where is that much touted talent and developing capability of Nintendo ?Aside Miyamoto they dont seem to be anything .

On the other hand , Sony is right now developing at the same time the Home system ,the PSN ,the firmware updates ,helping Epic with engineers ,and then developing games as Ratchet and Clank ,Heavenly Sword ,Uncharted ,Wipeout HD ,Gran Turismo 5 ,Infamous ,Pain ,Hot Shots Golf 5 ,Folklore (just released ) ,Lair ,Killzone 2 ,Afrika ,8 Days ,Getaway ,SOCOM COnfrontation ,Warhawk ,God of War 3 ,The Agency, Jak and Daxter Lost Frontier, Loco Roco for PS3  ,Little Big Planet ,Eco Chrome ....whatever Team Ico is developing ....plus all the games for the PSP  

 Nintendo has a developing genius as Miyamoto ,but aside him they just dont have a ton of developing muscle ,let alone talent .Sony ,like it or not ,right now has as first or second party people like Guerrilla ,Incognito ,Insomniac ,Team Ico ,Sony Online ,Evolution ,Game Republic ,Factor 5 ,Clap Hand ,Zipper ,Media Molecule ,Quantic Dreams ,London Studio ,Studio Liverpool ,Sucker Punch ,Ready at Dawn ,Santa Monica Studio (with David Jaffe ) ,Naughty Dog ,Polyphony ...etc etc they just have ton more man-power and talent in there  with a stellar first and second party lineup of developers .

 



And the games are showing off the talent of the devs.



End of 2014 Hardware Predictions (03/03/14)

PlayStation 4: 12-15million

Xbox One: 7-10 million

Wii U: 8-9 million (Changed 01/04/2014 from 7-9 --> 8-9 million)

NJ5 said:
dallas said:
NJ5 said:
dallas said:
I think that the 360 is in danger of falling to 2nd place once nintendo surpasses it, and will at some later point fall to third place once the PS3 passes it.

Well, you have to realize that the 360 is only going to have a good 6 years to do its thing, and after that it is going to cease to be a competitive player.

If it already has had 2 years where it has sold 10million, the best that it could do in the next 4 is another 20 million, however I will try to be conservative here and give it 17.5million.

The 360 just isn't going to be doing good for the short term b/c their games division is pretty cash-poor at this point, and hasn't had the money to woo developers to give it good games lately. Almost every game announced by the 360 or PS3 platforms has gone to the PS3, a big change from 4-5 months ago. Of course this will probably amend itself by early 2008 when microsoft will have had the time to fix its reliability issues for the 360 and won't have to waste all of that $$$$ on refurbishing 360s but by then, Sony and nintendo will have gotten stronger.


Why exactly would the Xbox 360 cease to be competitive after 6 years? Because it has no built-in HD disc reader?

 


No, consoles just have a limited life span, as consumers will demand a better game playing machine sooner or later.


But in that case, the same will happen to the PS3 and his argument becomes stale too...

 


Well, anything is possible given an analysis superficial enough.

 

 



Diomedes1976 said:
carlos710 said:
Diomedes:

The ps3 already dropped his prince in japan as far as i know.

And lol at saying that Nintendo doesn't have the developing power of sony... i hope you are joking.

The PS3 hasnt had any price drop since it was launched in Japan .It was launched at a lower price that announced in E3 2006 ,for sure ,but that isnt a price drop while in the stores .

 Second ,I am not joking about developer power .Right now Sony has nearly 100 developer teams worlwide ,let alone all those engineers doing the firmware updates ,those others helping for example Epic with the optimization of the Unreal engine ,plus all the others charged of the online section such as the PSN and developing Home .

 Nintendo has barely any of this .I would be hard pressed to name more than 4-5 second parties of Nintendo .Most of their work seems to be done by Miyamoto with the help of some internal developers here and there.Even long time second parties as Camelot and Rare arent related to Nintendo anymore ,and Silicon Knights and Factor 5 have changed their work to MS and Sony respectively  .

What are exactly Nintendo  developing righ now ?Well we know Miyamoto is working in Mario Galaxy ,the occidental second party they have charged for Metroid is developing Metroid Corruption ,then they are doing Wii Fit where Miyamoto will be involved ,Mario Kart with some internal developer under Miyamoto supervision ....they didnt announce nearly anything for the DS in E3 ,then they are doing baby steps in their online system and channels at a pace that if it was sony we would say is desperating slow ...and thats about it.Most of the product they have released is only ports from the Cube transferred to the Wii and DS conversions  .I forgot Mario Smash Bros ...ok .That gives some 5 games in development right now ,4 of them under direct control of Miyamoty .Where is that much touted talent and developing capability of Nintendo ?Aside Miyamoto they dont seem to be anything .

On the other hand , Sony is right now developing at the same time the Home system ,the PSN ,the firmware updates ,helping Epic with engineers ,and then developing games as Ratchet and Clank ,Heavenly Sword ,Uncharted ,Wipeout HD ,Gran Turismo 5 ,Infamous ,Pain ,Hot Shots Golf 5 ,Folklore (just released ) ,Lair ,Killzone 2 ,Afrika ,8 Days ,Getaway ,SOCOM COnfrontation ,Warhawk ,God of War 3 ,The Agency, Jak and Daxter Lost Frontier, Loco Roco for PS3  ,Little Big Planet ,Eco Chrome ....whatever Team Ico is developing ....plus all the games for the PSP  

 Nintendo has a developing genius as Miyamoto ,but aside him they just dont have a ton of developing muscle ,let alone talent .Sony ,like it or not ,right now has as first or second party people like Guerrilla ,Incognito ,Insomniac ,Team Ico ,Sony Online ,Evolution ,Game Republic ,Factor 5 ,Clap Hand ,Zipper ,Media Molecule ,Quantic Dreams ,London Studio ,Studio Liverpool ,Sucker Punch ,Ready at Dawn ,Santa Monica Studio (with David Jaffe ) ...etc etc they just have ton more man-power and talent in there .

 

Current First Party:

Brownie Brown — Software developer consisting of former members of Squaresoft. Responsible for the Magical Vacation (Magical Starsign outside of Japan) series, and for supporting Shigesato Itoi and HAL with Mother 3 (Japan only).

Intelligent Systems — Established in 1986 by former members of Nintendo Research & Development 1 to develop games. Responsible for Metroid, Fire Emblem, Paper Mario, and Nintendo Wars franchises.

NDCUBE — Developer of F-Zero: Maximum Velocity and various other Game Boy Advance and GameCube titles.

Nintendo Entertainment Analysis and Development (Originally "Nintendo Research & Development 4") — Largest division at Nintendo. Managed by Shigeru Miyamoto. Responsible for the Mario, Zelda, Animal Crossing, Wii Series, and other franchises.

Nintendo EAD Tokyo — The first in-house Nintendo studio to be located outside of Kyoto. Responsible for Donkey Kong Jungle Beat and Super Mario Galaxy

Nintendo Software Technology Corporation — Redmond-based studio responsible for Metroid Prime: Hunters and Project H.A.M.M.E.R., among others.

Retro Studios — Austin-based studio wholly owned by Nintendo. Developer of the Metroid Prime games excluding Hunters and Pinball.


Current Second Party:

AlphaDream — Developer of Tomato Adventure (Japan only), Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, and Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time.

Ambrella - Developers of Hey You, Pikachu!, Pokémon Channel, and Pokémon Dash.

Camelot Software Planning - Developer of Nintendo's Mario Golf and Mario Tennis series as well as the Golden Sun franchise.

Fuse Games — A British Pinball game company who made Mario Pinball Land and Metroid Prime Pinball.

Game Freak — Developer of the Pokémon video game series and Drill Dozer.

Genius Sonority — Newly formed developer; responsible for Pokémon Colosseum, its sequel, Pokémon XD, and the Pokémon puzzle game: Pokémon Trozei.

HAL Laboratory — Responsible for the Kirby franchise, Super Smash Bros. series, the Eggerland series (also known as the Adventures of Lolo series), the development of the e-Reader, and co-produced the EarthBound/Mother series.

Monolith Soft - Founded in 1999 by a former member of Square Co., the company was sold to Nintendo on 27 April, 2007 by Namco Bandai. Developer of the Xenosaga series, as well as Namco x Capcom, the upcoming Wii title Disaster: Day of Crisis, and the Baten Kaitos series.

Nexon Corporation - An MMO developer that was the creator of Maple Story and War Rock, NEXON recently announced that it has partnered with Nintendo, and will be bringing some of it's MMOs to Nintendo consoles.

Noise - Developers of the Custom Robo franchise.

skip Ltd. - Developers of the Chibi-Robo series, the bit Generations series (Japan only), and GiFTPiA (Japan only).

 

 

Basically, Nintendo has a lot of development resources; beyond that Nintendo has been the #1 or #2 game publisher in the world when it comes to game sales for roughly 20 years. Sony has a lot of development teams yet can't break into the top 5 consistently.



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Diomedes:

Im not sure if it is even worth arguing with you. Its obvious that you dont know what you are talking about if you think that nintendo is developing only "the big 5" (Mario galaxy/mario kart/wii fit/smash/metroid). I will leave it at that.



carlos710 - Capitán Primero: Nintendo Defense Force

"Wii are legion, for Wii are many"

NJ5 said:
dallas said:
NJ5 said:

Why exactly would the Xbox 360 cease to be competitive after 6 years? Because it has no built-in HD disc reader?

 


No, consoles just have a limited life span, as consumers will demand a better game playing machine sooner or later.


But in that case, the same will happen to the PS3 and his argument becomes stale too...

 


The Xbox wasn't available for sale 6 years after launch. The PS2 is available for sale right now, and still selling well outside of Japan. So while I don't think core gamers will really consider the PS3 a 10 year product, Sony will likely be selling them with respectable numbers up to and through their 10th year after launch. It's *extremely* unlikely that MS will do so with the 360. More likely, they'll release a new Xbox in 2011 or 2012 and cease production of the 360.

The PS3 hasnt had any price drop since it was launched in Japan .It was launched at a lower price that announced in E3 2006 ,for sure ,but that isnt a price drop while in the stores .

It had a price drop before release. As launch approached, it was obvious to Sony that it would not sell at the price they wanted, so they gave it a significant price drop in Japan in an effort to save face and have respectable sales numbers there. They didn't want Nintendo to run away with Japan.

Oh, and Sony cannot compete with Nintendo for first party development muscle.  Nintendo is huge and produces an insane amount of software.  It has been their bread and butter while their hardware was struggling.



Happysquirrel ,it seems I forgot some developers as the Pokemon games ones .Still ,in your list you include Camelot wich are no more related to Nintendo and have turned to develop games for mobile phones .In any case you can see from your own list that the difference in the teams between Sony and Nintendo is massive in Sonys advantage .Nintendo has their main team lead by Miyamoto ,Retro Studios and maybe Intelligent systems no one of their first party teams is a first line developer .And in the second party camp they have some 10 teams most one-trick pony as the ones responsible for the Pokemon and Kyrby games...maybe Monolith will prove themselves a top team but that remain to be seen .I would say that aside the Miyamoto team no one of the NIntendo teams have the talent or resources of teams as Team Ico ,Polyphony ,Naughty Dog ,Insomniac ,Guerrilla ,Evolution or Factor 5 just to name a few .I am not saying its games sell better or worse ,after all a no-game as Nintendogs has sold milllions of units ,what I am saying is that they dont have the technology ,the talent and the manpower to push this industry forward .It was pretty clear when seeing Miyamoto face when seeing games as Haze running .....he was like "what the fuck we could never do something like this with our tools and hardware this is another league lucky we sell way more than them !!" .Nintendo is putting themselves out of the top developers league .Once this generation finishes they will have a technology and know-how outdated so much that it will be hard for them to return to the first line .Well ,all the latest is pure speculation ,maybe one day they will finish breeding their money thirsty shareholders with their massive money and will put the money aside in investments in technology and manpower ....but for the time being they just seem to be in another venture .Be original ,market differently through a differentianting point ,invest the less possible in hardware and technology ,sell millions with established franchises and casual games ,then turn all that money to shareholders .



Xbox 360 isn't going to fail any time soon...and I don't even like Xbox very much.

The fact is, Microsoft has gotten a bit lazy and comfortable since it saw how badly Sony is screwing up. I think this is partially the games division protecting itself - it could be way ahead of PS3 if it had done a decent price cut earlier this year, but if it killed of Sony without ever making a profit, how would the division justify its existance to investors and executives?

Right now, they can say, "Oh, watch out for the Sony Set-Top Boogeyman!" If they achieve profitability they can say, "Oh, finally, a profitable MS product that isn't PC software!", but if they kill Sony off and never make any money in the process?

*CHOP*

On the other hand, Sony's two whole weeks of success don't mean anything in the big picture.  When Nintendo dropped the price of GameCube to $100 it sold like crazy, but we all know how that turned out.  I think a price cut, plus Microsoft's holiday lineup is enough to keep 360 well ahead of PS3. In the long run I think 360 will have trouble ever becoming a humongous hit, but the company has a noteworthy lead on Sony and I'm sure if Sony started making serious progress, Microsoft would become a LOT more aggressive.



TheBigFatJ said:
NJ5 said:
dallas said:
NJ5 said:

Why exactly would the Xbox 360 cease to be competitive after 6 years? Because it has no built-in HD disc reader?

 


No, consoles just have a limited life span, as consumers will demand a better game playing machine sooner or later.


But in that case, the same will happen to the PS3 and his argument becomes stale too...

 

 

 

.

Oh, and Sony cannot compete with Nintendo for first party development muscle.  Nintendo is huge and produces an insane amount of software.  It has been their bread and butter while their hardware was struggling.


Actually ,Sony produces more software than Nintendo .And ,more importantly ,aside from cheap handheld games ,of way better production values .Look at the games released this year by both developers ,the software announced at E3 for both ,and consider that most Wii software this year are simply Cube games released in the Wii instead and think again .