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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Gears Of War 2. GRAPHICS Diary. Watch!

MikeB said:
@ selnor

The PS3 has more bandwidth to its XDR and GDDR3 simultaneously than the 360 can access its shared GDDR3.

Maybe you are confusing yourself with the Xenos internal bandwidth, which would be like using the Cell's bigger internal bandwidth for main memory bandwidth comparisons...

Umm LOL. No it doesnt buddy, Devs were horrified when they first saw the bandwidth speed of PS3 memory.

http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2006/06/05/ps3-hardware-slow-and-broken

If you dont know how the bandwidth works then it's completely useless me explaining this over the net. This is the most CRUCIAL part making the most out of a CPU ability. I believe the cell is more powerful than Xenos but the bandwidth holds it's potential back. That my friend id FACT.

 Also these are the figures of the overall system bandwisth for memory performance. After doing the necessary maths.

The memory system bandwidth in Xbox 360 exceeds the PS3's by five times.

PS3's Cell claimed advantage is on streaming floating point work which is done on its seven DSP processors.

Xbox 360 has 278.4 GB/s of memory system bandwidth. The PS3 has less than one-fifth of Xbox 360's (48 GB/s) of TOTAL memory system bandwidth.



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Selnor,
dude, why the hell did you turn this beautiful thread into a tech orgasmatron?Couldn't you just ignore them?
Mike B, for god's sake mate. I know how many things you know about this stuff. But honestly pal, this all thing with your GPU CPU Cell DRM RAM posts is ridiculous.
How many people have to say this to you?
Personally, I highly doubt that you even play enough goddamn games.



@ Selnor

I can't really argue from a technical standpoint as my knowledge of the respective architectures is very limited . I am confident however that when it comes to graphics the PS3 has set the standard through out this generation thus far Gears Of War 2 may possibly hold that crown momentarily (even though I don't think it looks all that special) but Killzone 2 then GoW3 (or possibly GT5) will continue the legacy in 2009.



epinefridis said:
Selnor,
dude, why the hell did you turn this beautiful thread into a tech orgasmatron?Couldn't you just ignore them?
Mike B, for god's sake mate. I know how many things you know about this stuff. But honestly pal, this all thing with your GPU CPU Cell DRM RAM posts is ridiculous.
How many people have to say this to you?
Personally, I highly doubt that you even play enough goddamn games.

 

 Dude I'm really sorry. He annoys me. He makes points like alot of people do and leave out one of the most important pieces of a system. Right MikeB make a different thread about this. I HAVE TOLD YOU THAT BEFORE. Now back to Gears of WAR.

 

It's gonna be AMAZING.



Imperial said:

@ Selnor

I can't really argue from a technical standpoint as my knowledge of the respective architectures is very limited . I am confident however that when it comes to graphics the PS3 has set the standard through out this generation thus far Gears Of War 2 may possibly hold that crown momentarily (even though I don't think it looks all that special) but Killzone 2 then GoW3 (or possibly GT5) will continue the legacy in 2009.

 

 I do agree. The PS3 can do better than Gears 2 and will do. And then the 360 will do the same. There is very little in it at the end of the day, but looking at the real crunching numbers if you look into it the 360 can actually perform better as a system. Anyway another thread about that and I'll show you why. Cell is better but that doesnt make a system.



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selnor said:
Jo21 said:
it does look better than resistance 2.

but resistance 2, have more color, art design its better imo,

now if you compare with Killzone 2. killzone wins hands down.

 

 LOL. Ok. I'm not gonna argue. I just strongly DISAGREE. Ive not seen this much detail in KZ2 or R2. My non fanboy PS3 friends were truly surprised by this. They say Gears 2> KZ2 and R2.

@MikeB. As I have pointed out a zillion times before (and you always ignore it) is this. It doesnt matter whether the info comes from HDD or BRD. All ifo has to go through the Ram before it hits the CPU and GPU. PS3 is able to have the GPU and CPU access at the same time. 360 has to access alternatively. What lets the PS3 down is the Bandwidth speed of the memory access. In the same time it takes the PS3 to access the memory once each for both CPU and GPU the 360 can access 3 CPU and 2 GPU or vice versa. You do math yourself. The bandwidth figures are out there for you to see.

No matter what you say to me, I'm not stupid. I have been building PC's for years, and always build far quicker machines for much less than my mates because I know what matters. ALL INFO THAT THE PROCESSORS PROCESS HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE RAM FIRST. That is what holds the PS3 back. Also FYI the 360 has 3 GPC (general purpose cores) and 3 secondary GPC.

The PS3 has 1 GPC and 7 SPE's (which can NOT do all processes that a GPC can do). Like I said in the time it takes the PS3 to do 2 read and writes from Ram (1 CPU and 1GPU) the 360 does 5 (3 CPU and 2 GPU or vice versa). The ram by respected devs have said this is an issue in PS3. When saying this they refer to the bandwidth and NOT the memory size.

Finally. PS3 fanboys continue to carp on about building engines that take advantage of the cell. Well Unreal engine 3.5 is an engine which takes advantage of the 360 as it runs much better with it's architecture. So the same applies. However from this latest video devs are getting more from the 360 enhanced engines. What we see here with gears is GENUINELY the most fully detailed game yet. Amazing.

 

whoa, you speak so much graphix and tech stuff that I do not know about. How come the 360 is not on the program with Stanford to do protein folding to find cure for cancer? Oh.......... thats right........its not capable of it.

 

"Starting in 2006, we began looking forward to another major advance in capabilities. This advance utilizes the new Cell processor in Sony's PLAYSTATION 3 (PS3) to achieve performance previously only possible on supercomputers. With this new technology (as well as new advances with GPUs), we will likely be able to attain performance on the 20 GigaFLOP scale per computer. With about 50,000 such machines, we would be able to achieve performance on the PetaFLOP scale. With software from Sony, the PlayStation 3 will contribute to the Folding@home project, pushing FAH another major step forward.

With these computational advances, coupled with new simulation methodologies to harness these advances, we will be able to address questions previously considered impossible to tackle computationally, and make even greater impacts on our knowledge of folding and folding related diseases such as Alzheimer's Disease, Huntington's Disease, and certain forms of cancer."

http://folding.stanford.edu/English/FAQ-PS3

 

but back on topic, I don't deny 360 has bad graphics, its really good. I just doubt its lack of cell power.



A wise man said -> it`s not the graphics,the processing power,the floating point...it`s the games that matter.

That man was working for Nintendo when Wii was sold out WW,now Nintendo is very rich and will continue to be.

360 and ps3 are great machines,the fact that one costs double than the other means nothing for someone and everything for someone else. It`s a matter of choice.



fayewong said:
selnor said:
Jo21 said:
it does look better than resistance 2.

but resistance 2, have more color, art design its better imo,

now if you compare with Killzone 2. killzone wins hands down.

 

 LOL. Ok. I'm not gonna argue. I just strongly DISAGREE. Ive not seen this much detail in KZ2 or R2. My non fanboy PS3 friends were truly surprised by this. They say Gears 2> KZ2 and R2.

@MikeB. As I have pointed out a zillion times before (and you always ignore it) is this. It doesnt matter whether the info comes from HDD or BRD. All ifo has to go through the Ram before it hits the CPU and GPU. PS3 is able to have the GPU and CPU access at the same time. 360 has to access alternatively. What lets the PS3 down is the Bandwidth speed of the memory access. In the same time it takes the PS3 to access the memory once each for both CPU and GPU the 360 can access 3 CPU and 2 GPU or vice versa. You do math yourself. The bandwidth figures are out there for you to see.

No matter what you say to me, I'm not stupid. I have been building PC's for years, and always build far quicker machines for much less than my mates because I know what matters. ALL INFO THAT THE PROCESSORS PROCESS HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE RAM FIRST. That is what holds the PS3 back. Also FYI the 360 has 3 GPC (general purpose cores) and 3 secondary GPC.

The PS3 has 1 GPC and 7 SPE's (which can NOT do all processes that a GPC can do). Like I said in the time it takes the PS3 to do 2 read and writes from Ram (1 CPU and 1GPU) the 360 does 5 (3 CPU and 2 GPU or vice versa). The ram by respected devs have said this is an issue in PS3. When saying this they refer to the bandwidth and NOT the memory size.

Finally. PS3 fanboys continue to carp on about building engines that take advantage of the cell. Well Unreal engine 3.5 is an engine which takes advantage of the 360 as it runs much better with it's architecture. So the same applies. However from this latest video devs are getting more from the 360 enhanced engines. What we see here with gears is GENUINELY the most fully detailed game yet. Amazing.

 

whoa, you speak so much graphix and tech stuff that I do not know about. How come the 360 is not on the program with Stanford to do protein folding to find cure for cancer? Oh.......... thats right........its not capable of it.

 

"Starting in 2006, we began looking forward to another major advance in capabilities. This advance utilizes the new Cell processor in Sony's PLAYSTATION 3 (PS3) to achieve performance previously only possible on supercomputers. With this new technology (as well as new advances with GPUs), we will likely be able to attain performance on the 20 GigaFLOP scale per computer. With about 50,000 such machines, we would be able to achieve performance on the PetaFLOP scale. With software from Sony, the PlayStation 3 will contribute to the Folding@home project, pushing FAH another major step forward.

With these computational advances, coupled with new simulation methodologies to harness these advances, we will be able to address questions previously considered impossible to tackle computationally, and make even greater impacts on our knowledge of folding and folding related diseases such as Alzheimer's Disease, Huntington's Disease, and certain forms of cancer."

http://folding.stanford.edu/English/FAQ-PS3

 

but back on topic, I don't deny 360 has bad graphics, its really good. I just doubt its lack of cell power.

Replied in personal message. This thread should not be about hardware tech.

 



OK why can't we just say this:

Both consoles can produce pretty much the same graphics and you need a magnifying glass to even see a little difference between the two's graphics.



End of '08 predictions (made by theprof00): PS3: 20m, 360: 23.5m, wii: 42m

Now Playin':  PS3|Resistance 2, LBP, Uncharted and Fifa 09, PSP| Ratchet and Clank: Size matters, 360| Gears of war 2 and Fallout 3.

I wish people wouldn't try to derail threads. If you like (or dislike) the graphics shown in the Gears of War 2 video which selnor highlighted, feel free to include your comments. If you want to discuss the technical merits of the PS3 or about the great games coming to the PS3 this holiday season, start your own discussion.