senseinobaka said:
Timmah! said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
It's basically the job of campaigning politicians to exploit stupid idiots who are willfully ignorant. I mean, is it really so wrong to lie to a voter if you're 100% sure the voter will believe everything you say and never look up the facts? If somebody believes Obama is going to raise their taxes, and they don't go to Obama's web site and look at his whole tax plan and see that he's actually going to cut their taxes, then that person is an idiot who wants to be stupid and wants to be lied to, because it makes it easier for them to vote for McCain if they think Obama is the devil. This works both ways. Too many Americans are willfully ignorant, and it's really disgusting.
Now if taxes are the most important issue to that voter, and they don't do their own research, they're an idiot and they shouldn't be voting. But millions of these idiots who vote based on 1 or 2 buzzwords climb out of the woodwork every 4 years and decide our future for us. |
It works the same for both sides. I swear, if I hear somebody say McSame one more freaking time...
People on the left buy into stupid catch phrases, platitudes, and empty words just as badly as people on the right, it happens equally on both sides. I actually had a friend tell me he liked Bush because he's fiscally conservative. I LOL'd
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Catch phrases and slogans are effective because they are comforting and easy to remember. Really campaign managers are just good marketers and talented at brand positioning. Such "lowest common denominator" campaigning pays nice dividends at the polls, so that's never going to change.
@Ghost. The problem with your analogy is that Obama's website doesnt tell you the whole story. He doesnt tell you that people with 200k+ incomes are 99% of the time small business owners. He doesnt tell you what the consequences of raising taxes on the largest block of employers and job creators are. He doesnt tell you that large corporations pay taxes via their pricing structure. He doesnt tell you that raising taxes, or as he puts it "removing tax breaks", on corporations will result in higher prices for all consumers, especially poor and middle class. He doesn't paint a picture of what life would be like if consumer prices go up and unemployment goes up and payroll taxes increase and small businesses fold. SO McCain my be lying by saying Obama wants to raise your taxes, but Obama is omitting the terrible consequences his economic plan will wreak.
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Whats the terrible consequences to returning upper bracket taxes to what they were under Clinton? Will we be forced to suffer through 8 years of prosperity again? That WAS pretty bad. The recessions of supply side economies in the 80-92 era and the 2000-2008 era have been WAY better for....repo men and pawn shop owners!
Most small business owners incorporate. Those that do not incorporate are usually not making hundreds of thousands of dollars unless they are doctors/lawyers/dentists. If they incorporate then they are paying the corporate tax rate not the individual tax rate, they only pay the individual rate on what they take for personal salary after balancing the profit/loss on their books.
Most small business owners that would pay personal income taxes on their business income because they are sole proprietorships are tiny mom and pop businesses like a laundrymat or a diner and do not make any 200k paydays. If they DO make a 200k payday in actual take home pay then I see no reason they should not be taxed at the rate other people who make 200k are taxed self employed or not.
The big Bush mistake was actually removing the millionaire bracket from taxes. The big change in the 2001 tax plan was to make anyone making over a few hundred thousand the same, as if a guy pulling in 300k is the same as a guy pulling in 300 million. The most important thing to do is to raise taxes only slightly on those in the 200k range, and reintroduce the millionaire bracket so people making millions are taxed higher then people who are just barely upper income. Someone making 200k should not be taxed more then 40%, someone making 200 million should be.
If you want to take the "that CEO who makes 300 million earned every penny" route fine, but tell me how you can constructively spend 300 million dollars yourself (not on your company, since if you spent it on your company it WOULD'T be taxed as income, it would be a company expense with no taxes collected). Above 10 million tops you go into gold plated cell phones and 50 foot yacht teritory. There is no rational consumption possible above that range. Look at Bill Gates and his trampoline room in his nearly 200 room house or the endless private jets and giant yachts of the 10 million+ crowd. WTF does a family of 4 or 5 need a 200 room house for? Is flying 1st class really that onerous?
Noone earns more then 10 million dollars a year, noone. There is not a single person in the world who personally earns that kind of money. Once you get up there its ALWAYS at least partly money from someone elses pocket, someone who makes far less then you.
If a laywer is making 10 million its because he's the head of a law firm with a ton of lawyers and paralegals and he is heavily skimming off the top of their work (billing 500 dollars for an hour of work, paying the paralegal 20 bucks, it happens a ton, trust me as someone who's worked in such an office). If a business executive is making 10 million its because he's paying his employees less then they are earning pretty severely. If a CEO is making 10 million or more its because he's skimming off the top when it comes to stockholder equity and not giving enough of a dividend to the real owners of the company (the stockholders).
Every successful enterprise is a pyramid built on many people, to say that the person on the top deserves the most is fine, to say they deserve hundreds of millions of dollars in barely taxed income is insane. Beyond just the employees they are depending on the countless dollars the public is paying in taxes and in their purchases to keep them affloat. Microsoft doesn't make a dime if not for the rule of law. Without it you get China where noone pays for any software and the government doesn't care, where shady dealings happen all the time and noone does anything and where very few make enough to afford the things their country is producing for western consumption.
The top of the pyramid doesn't do that much, its the base that works and sweats the most to make the wealth we as Americans all enjoy. The truly "self made man" is a myth. The "self made man" is only made with the help of the workers in his employ.
