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Forums - PC Discussion - So why do people hate the dreaded Spore DRM (or any DRM) again?

The laws we have prevents you from trying to make money on the intelectual property and specificly intended to stop bigscale copyright infringment not personal copies.

Yeah, making money on someone`s intellectual property is called piracy in my country too.
Copying/Sharing - NOT.



Every 5 seconds on earth one child dies from hunger...

2009.04.30 - PS3 will OUTSELL x360 atleast by the middle of 2010. Japan+Europe > NA.


Gran Turismo 3 - 1,06 mln. in 3 weeks with around 4 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Gran Turismo 4 - 1,16 mln. with 18 mln. PS2 on the launch.

Final Fantasy X - around 2 mln. with 5 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Final Fantasy X-2 - 2.4 mln. with 12 mln. PS2 on the launch.

 

1.8 mln. PS3 today(2008.01.17) in Japan. Now(2009.04.30) 3.16 mln. PS3 were sold in Japan.
PS3 will reach 4 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 25k.

PS3 may reach 5 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 50k.
PS2 2001 vs PS3 2008 sales numbers =) + New games released in Japan by 2009 that passed 100k so far

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vaio said: 

 Well it´s within your right to care more about a companies right to make more money then your own right to do what you want with a property you bought and own. Your laws (germany and france those are the major countries that are harsh) about a bought game are very similar to the rights you have to rentals here.

You just have to accept that your way isn´t nececary the right way (neither is ours) and your laws aren´t the final word other then your country. We have laws that protect our right to own what we bought and you have to accept that.

Maybe in the future we will get your kind of laws or you will get ours but untill then acceptanc of eachothers difference is the only key.

Didn´t want to start a disscusion but I thought that if you were aware of the difference in your countries then maybe this wouldn´t get out of hand which I am afraid it will.

 I wonder if you know much about what the laws actually entitle you to here. Fair use allows for a lot of really open use that companies attempt to restrictsuch as the ability to create back-ups and play them instead of the original. Technically speaking downloading a game off the internet that you have bought is entirely legal in the US. I am dead serious when I say most American eulas are not actulally legal in America.

 I also don't see how thinking a company should be paid for their work is such a terrible thing. Would you willingly work for free for your bosses friend because your boss has paid you? Why do you think developers should? I am not for the route the developers are taking which often massively over steps their legal right but why wouldn't you support someone providing you entertainment? They need that funding to provide you with more entertainment!



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

vaio said:

So do we, but for us they don´t prohibit you from using it in a privat mutter like borrowing it to a neighbour/friend and letting them play the game or make copies of it so you don´t wear out the original. The laws we have prevents you from trying to make money on the intelectual property and specificly intended to stop bigscale copyright infringment not personal copies.

 

 Fair Use allows for exatly those abilities as well. This is why I am saying you don't know what you are talking about with respect to US laws. I am not trying to be mean with this, but you are clearly ignorant of some of the important laws in the US.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

CrazzyMan said:
The laws we have prevents you from trying to make money on the intelectual property and specificly intended to stop bigscale copyright infringment not personal copies.

Yeah, making money on someone`s intellectual property is called piracy in my country too.
Copying/Sharing - NOT.

 Lithuania has laws that provide for compensation for lost sales due to an infringement of a copyright. Copying the game and distributing it freely can be construed (and rightly so) as causing a loss of sales and thus make you vulnerable to legal action. In your country copying and sharing the game is very much illegal and would be equivalent to what we call piracy.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

greenmedic88 said:
Kasz216 said:

Has anyone yet to say how the 3 installs thing prevents piracy?

At all? How does this stop people from downloading a game and installing it. I'm not getting this.  Because... when you downlaod and pirate... it's basically 1 install.

The online features and the binding of the game to your EA account are the real piracy features.  The 3 install thing is a scam unless someone can actually explain to me how that stops piracy.

It totally doesn't.

No more than a disc key would.

It just makes using the game that much harder for the user over time. And it makes it pretty much impossible to transfer the game to another user.

So basically, it prevents the game from being loaned, shared, handed down, re-sold, etc. which is probably the real intent.

 

So in otherwords...  Twesterm's "Don't blame EA blame pirates about DRMs" is kinda like saying "Don't blame the US, blame Al Queda for the war on iraq."

 



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Gnizmo said:

greenmedic88 said:

But most countries do have copyright and IP laws, licensing laws, etc. While they may not be exactly the same from one nation to the next, there are legal boundaries/rights.

Somehow, I can't see any software company distributing software to a country completely devoid of copyright laws.

 

 Companies continue to release their software in China despite essentially no IP laws if you are not China. While I think there are a few on the books, they are not close to enforced unless you are directly owned by China.

That's one of the big problems for console video games entering the Chinese market. Virtually all legal software in China is digital distribution. It grew by something like 67% last year.

But they do actually have regular copyright laws, which have been adjusted to maintain favorable WTO status.

China has a patent office (State Intellectual Propery Office), and they are members of the WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organization). Its IPR laws have actually been in effect since 1979.

The myth that there are no IP laws in China is largely perpetrated by the common knowledge that China is home to some of the worst piracy worldwide.

>

>

To enforcement IPRs protection, an administrative system has been established within the government. After the reshuffle of the State Council in March 1998, the Patent Office became part of the State Intellectual Property Office. The Trademarks Office is still under the authority of the State Administration for Industry and Commerce. The Copyright Office falls within the State Administration for Press and Publication. A similar system exists at various levels of local government. Commonly, enforcement of IPRs will be carried out by local IPRs personnel, assisted by police from the local Public Security Bureau.

In order to handle cases of infringement of IPRs more efficiently, special intellectual property courts have been established in some cities and provinces. At the level of the Higher People's Court in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangdong, Fujian and Hainan, intellectual property courts have been separated from the economic division. Beijing, Shanghai and Tianjin have also established intellectual property courts within the Intermediate People's Court. In 1992, the Supreme People's Court established an intellectual property division.

Customs protection is another positivie mechanism in law enforcement with regard to IPRs. The Regulations on Customs Protection of Intellectual Property Rights (中华人民共和国知识产权海关保护条例), promulgated in June 1995, strengthened border control to stop counterfeited goods from coming into, or leaving, the PRC.



Gnizmo said:

vaio said:

So do we, but for us they don´t prohibit you from using it in a privat mutter like borrowing it to a neighbour/friend and letting them play the game or make copies of it so you don´t wear out the original. The laws we have prevents you from trying to make money on the intelectual property and specificly intended to stop bigscale copyright infringment not personal copies.

 

 Fair Use allows for exatly those abilities as well. This is why I am saying you don't know what you are talking about with respect to US laws. I am not trying to be mean with this, but you are clearly ignorant of some of the important laws in the US.

I know exacly what it used to say in every instruction book from games they all had your version of it printed in them. We used to use them in school to discuss the difference in our countries in regard to copyright laws and how much power the companies are allowed to have in the US over the consumer and our teacher was an american so I think I got enough covered to be able to discuss with you.

PS. I used the words used to  because now days the have changed the manualls and they instead include the laws of the specific countries in EU.

 



Vaio - "Bury me at Milanello"      R.I.P AC Milan

In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird.
Now the world is weird  and people take Prozac  to make it normal.

If laughing is the best medicine and marijuana makes you laugh

Is marijuana the best medicine?

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."

“If any creator has not played Mario, then they’re probably not a good creator. That’s something I can say with 100 percent confidence. Mario is, for game creators, the development bible.

Gnizmo said:
CrazzyMan said:
The laws we have prevents you from trying to make money on the intelectual property and specificly intended to stop bigscale copyright infringment not personal copies.

Yeah, making money on someone`s intellectual property is called piracy in my country too.
Copying/Sharing - NOT.

 Lithuania has laws that provide for compensation for lost sales due to an infringement of a copyright. Copying the game and distributing it freely can be construed (and rightly so) as causing a loss of sales and thus make you vulnerable to legal action. In your country copying and sharing the game is very much illegal and would be equivalent to what we call piracy.

 

 You are right but only if you distribute in a large scale enough to actually cause a pontentiall loss of sales and as long as you don´t do it in that big scale and keep it to friends/neigbours/family the laws are not applicable to you as it goes under private use.

When you buy a movie here they actually roll the laws that are in effect here before the movie and they clearly state that I can only make a copy for privat use and not for public use and monetary use. i am not allowed to play the movie in a public place or in a public place for monetary use but I am allowed to invite as many people I want to my house for a viewing of the movie or borrowing it to any one I want just as long as I don´t have a monetary gain from it.

 



Vaio - "Bury me at Milanello"      R.I.P AC Milan

In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird.
Now the world is weird  and people take Prozac  to make it normal.

If laughing is the best medicine and marijuana makes you laugh

Is marijuana the best medicine?

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."

“If any creator has not played Mario, then they’re probably not a good creator. That’s something I can say with 100 percent confidence. Mario is, for game creators, the development bible.

Kasz216 said:
greenmedic88 said:
Kasz216 said:

Has anyone yet to say how the 3 installs thing prevents piracy?

At all? How does this stop people from downloading a game and installing it. I'm not getting this.  Because... when you downlaod and pirate... it's basically 1 install.

The online features and the binding of the game to your EA account are the real piracy features.  The 3 install thing is a scam unless someone can actually explain to me how that stops piracy.

It totally doesn't.

No more than a disc key would.

It just makes using the game that much harder for the user over time. And it makes it pretty much impossible to transfer the game to another user.

So basically, it prevents the game from being loaned, shared, handed down, re-sold, etc. which is probably the real intent.

 

So in otherwords...  Twesterm's "Don't blame EA blame pirates about DRMs" is kinda like saying "Don't blame the US, blame Al Queda for the war on iraq."

 

Something like that.

Both arguments can go back and forth.

Don't blame Al Qaeda, blame the US for maintaining permanent military bases in Saudi Arabia.

Don't blame the US, blame Saddam Hussein for invading Kuwait.

Don't blame Saddam, blame the US for supporting his Baathist regime during and after the Iran/Iraq War.

Don't blame the US, blame Saddam for invading Iran.

Don't blame Saddam, blame the Iranian Islamic Revolution.

 



vaio said:

I know exacly what it used to say in every instruction book from games they all had your version of it printed in them. We used to use them in school to discuss the difference in our countries in regard to copyright laws and how much power the companies are allowed to have in the US over the consumer and our teacher was an american so I think I got enough covered to be able to discuss with you.

PS. I used the words used to  because now days the have changed the manualls and they instead include the laws of the specific countries in EU.

 

 I have said this at least two other times now so I am getting a little frustrated with you. Those are often not legal contracts. They are not always supported by actual US laws. Fair Use allows us to do everything you said we could not do. I am not trying to be an ass about this but when you say your laws are more lax because they allow you to do some of the exact same things you can do in the US then you clearly don't have all the information. In principle you are right in that European laws allow for much greater freedom on the end user in a lot of ways. The problem is you keep citing wrong examples of it.

 

You are right but only if you distribute in a large scale enough to actually cause a pontentiall loss of sales and as long as you don´t do it in that big scale and keep it to friends/neigbours/family the laws are not applicable to you as it goes under private use.

When you buy a movie here they actually roll the laws that are in effect here before the movie and they clearly state that I can only make a copy for privat use and not for public use and monetary use. i am not allowed to play the movie in a public place or in a public place for monetary use but I am allowed to invite as many people I want to my house for a viewing of the movie or borrowing it to any one I want just as long as I don´t have a monetary gain from it.

 This is essentially true in the US as well. The laws are worded much more harshly than they can be enforced. Everything in this post is true in the US. Fair Use laws are slightly eroded but still on the books meaning you can still fight anyone attempting to claim damages over an action that is covered by Fair Use.

 @Greenmedic88
Thats what I meant when I said they are essentially unenforced. The laws only exist on paper for the most part. It is getting better as more pressure is put on China, but it is still terrible currently.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229