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Forums - Sony Discussion - Tretton on BC and other things

TheRealMafoo said:
Kasz216 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
It's not the price of the PS2 hardware, it's the price of the PS3 hardware.

They are keeping the PS2 out of it to force people to buy PS3 games, and thus offset the loss of the console.

it was why they removed it in the first place, and why they have not brought it back.

My guess is when the thing cost next to nothing to make, they will add it then, so they can sell PS2 games on PSN.

I guess the not going back line was a bold faced lie then? He was honest about why even though it might lose some fans since it was money oriented against the players best needs... then goes out of his way to lie?

Doesn't make sense.

 

I am not making it up. That's what Sony said when they removed it :)

http://gamernode.com/News/4697-The-real-reason-for-no-BC-on-the-40GB-PS3/index.html

According to the WSJ: "Mr. Tretton conceded that removing that capability [backwards compatibility], along with a few other features, isn't dramatically reducing Sony's cost of manufacturing the console but will instead encourage buyers of the entry-level PlayStation 3 to purchase more games designed specifically for the new system."

 

 


No I mean the it coming back part.  He's saying it isn't coming back.  So why would you expect it to?



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I need to post this before someone request that the thread is closed because folks will consider our comments bashing and whupping up on the PS3. I'll leave that to the nuts in suits on Planet Sony.

From a GamePro article:

... On Backwards Compatibility

[The PS3 will have] almost perfect backwards compatibility. There will be some exceptions, but we believe those will be even less than we saw from PSOne to PS2."Backwards compatibility, as you know from PlayStation One and PlayStation 2, is a core value of what we believe we should offer. And access to the library of content people have created, bought for themselves, and accumulated over the years is necessary to create a format. PlayStation is a format meaning that it transcends many devices -- PSOne, PS2, and now PS3."

"If the developer wrote the game according to our technical requirements checklist, we will have what we believe will be almost perfect backwards compatibility. There will be some exceptions, there always are, but we believe those will be very few and far between. Even less so than we saw from PSOne to PS2."

...On Microsoft's Difficulties with Xbox 360 Backward Compatibility

"I don't believe that was backwards compatibility."

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=55108

Lies, lies, lies. You can't spin this crap no matter what you say. It came out of a Sony exec's mouth and to delete the feature to FORCE folks to buy PS3 only games? WOW. I've got this article bookmarked to keep reminding me of what a liar does, says and is.



Kasz216 said:


No I mean the it coming back part.  He's saying it isn't coming back.  So why would you expect it to?

 

Oh. Money. It's gone right now for reasons of revenue (force people to buy PS3 games). At some point, I think the revenue generated with BC will outweigh the revenue generated without it.

If that day comes, they will look at putting it back in, most likely to sell PS2 games on the PSN. Also, once it reaches a casual market price (sub $200), BS will help sell a lot more consoles, as they will reach the price point where most of there PS2 owners sit, and they would be more inclined to upgrade if it meant not loosing there library.

I an not saying they are thinking of adding it now, I am saying that before the PS3 stops being produced, I would not be surprised if all of them were BC. Never say never :)

To be honest, I think if it was in from day one, they would have made more money, but hind sight is always 20/20.



madskillz: What is the lie? That Sony thought BC was important at first and then lost alot of money overall on PS3 and they are reducing the cost by taking out things like BC and making owners buy more ps3 games? They made bad financial decisions and they are trying to correct them. They have changed strategy few times this generation so you should not be suprised.



 
madskillz said:

I need to post this before someone request that the thread is closed because folks will consider our comments bashing and whupping up on the PS3. I'll leave that to the nuts in suits on Planet Sony.

From a GamePro article:

... On Backwards Compatibility

[The PS3 will have] almost perfect backwards compatibility. There will be some exceptions, but we believe those will be even less than we saw from PSOne to PS2."Backwards compatibility, as you know from PlayStation One and PlayStation 2, is a core value of what we believe we should offer. And access to the library of content people have created, bought for themselves, and accumulated over the years is necessary to create a format. PlayStation is a format meaning that it transcends many devices -- PSOne, PS2, and now PS3."

"If the developer wrote the game according to our technical requirements checklist, we will have what we believe will be almost perfect backwards compatibility. There will be some exceptions, there always are, but we believe those will be very few and far between. Even less so than we saw from PSOne to PS2."

...On Microsoft's Difficulties with Xbox 360 Backward Compatibility

"I don't believe that was backwards compatibility."

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=55108

Lies, lies, lies. You can't spin this crap no matter what you say. It came out of a Sony exec's mouth and to delete the feature to FORCE folks to buy PS3 only games? WOW. I've got this article bookmarked to keep reminding me of what a liar does, says and is.

 

We can all point to where people lie in the name of PR. Bill Gates himself said the 360 will be the most reliable gaming console on the market. He said it because he needed to counter the fact that it sucked. The Sony people emphasized this because the 360's BC sucked, and they used it as a talking point as to why the PS3 would be a better choice.

If you are just now learning that any company will lie to you to get your money, you have bigger problems then worrying about Sony execs. :)



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madskillz, that article is 2 years old, made from a different sony exec when they had a totally different outlook on this generation. losing 3.3 BILLION DOLLARS will have you looking for ways to save every penny. they did that with the 40gb system and people responded, so now they are going to go down that road. when the ps4 comes out and has similar hardware to the ps3 (instead of the radically different hardware from ps2 to ps3) I'm sure they will bring it back, and I'm sure they will not sell a console for a big loss also or any loss at all.

btw, home isn't coming out in 2 years, that was an example. and we already knew that the psp had massive piracy, but is still doing fairly well for itself.



Bladeneo said:
Of course BC was a financial decision..."still selling PS2 software to PS2 customers", basically saying they want as many people buying PS2's as possible, so to do that they take away the only other option to play PS2 games, a BC PS3. Purely financial.

 

Except it makes absolutely no sense. If they can get someone to buy a PS3 instead of a PS2 (which backwards compatibility does), then they open up the possibility of that person buying software for both systems instead of just one, and greatly increase their profit potential from that sale in the future. Because of course, PS2 software sales will dry up in a couple years, while PS3 sales will begin to bloom. There's no reason at all for Sony to prefer a PS2 sale to a PS3, unless they're looking at the ultra short term -- and if they're afraid of losing a couple bucks on the initial PS3 sale, then they shouldn't be in this business to begin with.

The original quote makes no sense as written either:

Hardware / software for backwards compat wasn't all that expensive. ... but we're selling PS2 software to PS2 customers, and selling PS3 software to PS3 consumers."

What difference does it make who's buying the software, or what console it's for? Their cut is the same regardless.

None of this adds up. Either there's another reason they're not telling us, or they really are clueless. Jack does make it sound like he was overruled on this one...



Yojimbo said:
madskillz: What is the lie? That Sony thought BC was important at first and then lost alot of money overall on PS3 and they are reducing the cost by taking out things like BC and making owners buy more ps3 games? They made bad financial decisions and they are trying to correct them. They have changed strategy few times this generation so you should not be suprised.

A core value is a core value, no matter how you slice it. Google the phrase and see what comes up - words like integrity, underpinning. If a company states core values, I am gonna listen. If they renege, they've lost a customer, hence why I only bought a 20gb or 60gb with full BC. I never considered buying any of the other impostors.

It doesn't matter if you think I am trolling, or you don't agree with my views - I could care less. But before supporting a company that states a feature is a core value and then drops it to generate sales has lost my business. Seriously, are you so much of a bot that you blindingly, like sheep to a slaughter, a company that is fairweather on a core value? I could see if MS flat out lied - sure, I would call them out on it. However, this new tactic will ruin Sony.

Take a gander at what other comanies say about core values:

The following list of core values reflects what is truly important to us as an organization. These are not values that change from time to time, situation to situation or person to person, but rather they are the underpinning of our company culture. Many people feel Whole Foods is an exciting company of which to be a part and a very special place to work. These core values are the primary reasons for this feeling, and they transcend our size and our growth rate. By maintaining these core values, regardless of how large a company Whole Foods becomes, we can preserve what has always been special about our company. These core values are the soul of our company. - Whole Foods

"Our Core Values, Integrity first, Service before self and Excellence in all we do, set the common standard for conduct across the Air Force. These values inspire the trust which provides the unbreakable bond that unifies the force. We must practice them ourselves and expect no less from those with whom we serve."  - Air Force

Texas A&M University Core Values

Texas A&M University Purpose Statement:
To develop leaders of character dedicated to serving the greater good.

Our purpose statement carries with it the responsibility, the traditions and the forward thinking of Texas A&M University exemplified by all who are associated with the university — its faculty and staff, and its current and former students. This can be defined by six core values.

Loyalty - Acceptance forever.

Integrity - Character is destiny.

Excellence - Set the bar.

Leadership - Follow me.

Selfless Service - How can I be of service?

Respect - We are the Aggies, the Aggies are we. - Texas A&M

 

 



madskillz said:

A core value is a core value, no matter how you slice it. Google the phrase and see what comes up - words like integrity, underpinning. If a company states core values, I am gonna listen. If they renege, they've lost a customer...

Of all the things you have ever said MadSkillz, this one takes the cake.

How in holly hell are you a MS fan, if things like core values, and integrity are a requirements for your patronage. That company should be at the top of your "go fuck off and die" list within the software/electronics arena.

Wow...



The excuses here are horrendous. Backwards compatibility is always a nice feature when working properly. But who in here in their right minds think that SONY is forcing you to buy PS3 games??? Who??? Last time I checked, if I want to play Mario Galaxy I'd buy me a Wii and Mario Galaxy. Did Nintendo forced me to do so? I don't think so. If I didn't care for the Wii software line up, why would I buy a Wii? Why for $250? Why??? So why would a person buy a PS3 if they didn't care much for it's software line up as a game console? So what concrete way is SONY forcing a person to buy PS3 games??? Also, the exclusion of BC in the new 80GB is being made known NOW so the consumer is made aware of it for another six weeks until release. So there is no surprise here. And also of course SONY cares about money because they have their stockholders to account for first in a public company. Did this not occur to some of you? Did it also not occur to some of you that Microsoft and Nintendo also do not care about you? And this whole issue of "values" is pathetic. These are business models in which they ALWAYS change according to the market. It has nothing to do with institutes of higher learning and Biblical morals. "Values" in the context of a business model is dependent on the market itself whether it's worth investing or not as a prodcut for the general consumer. What wrong with some of you people??? Actually, I know what's wrong, but I'll save it to be nice.



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