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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Julian Eggebrecht: Wii-developers are sloppy

Well, this is a no-brainer to many of you, but I just thought I could post this to show that there are developers who are honest too. Here's what Julian Eggebrecht from Factor 5 had to say: --- IGN: Resident Evil 4 was a beautiful GCN title. Rogue Squadron was doing things at launch [GC launch] that developers still haven't done on Wii. Why do you think that is? Are studios getting sloppy on Wii? Julian: Yes. I'm so disappointed knowing exactly what the Wii can do -- and I still think nobody knows it better than we (no pun intended) [laughs]. I really have to say, boy, am I disappointed! They all have finally figured out, five years into the hardware's life cycle, how to do at least basic shaders and a rim light, but that's what everybody does. But I still don't see enough bump and normal-mapping, if any. I still don't see enough post effects, although you would have insane fill-rates with Wii. I don't see any of that. I was digging out Rebel Strike the other day and was looking at it, and we had some people who were visiting ask, "Why isn't anybody else doing this on Wii?" And I am at a loss. I really am. -- http://wii.ign.com/articles/762/762984p1.html I like the Wii, but I also think that graphics matter. Some of the developers seem to think it's ok to just make games with bad audiovisuals. I don't mean only effects. Where's the cool art design in Elebits seen in the concept art? GT Pro Series and Far Cry must have been meant as utter jokes.



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Well this whole thing is an interesting argument. I think thatfor titles like Wii Sports, Elebits etc the argument doesn't apply - much like with Brain Trainings and so on. Titles like Mario, Mario Karts etc kind of fit in halfway - they have always had a fairly basic art / graphical style for their day - I really like Mario Galaxy, they have made it clean, sharp and typically Mario-like in terms of primary colours, simple shapes etc. This is also ok. Most games, though, fit into the third category. Certainly most games that are also on X360 / PS3 - graphically heavy games that benefit from, and are expected to look good. Games like Far Cry, Call of Duty should fit into this category and for these games I have to agree with the OP that many developers don't seem to be using the hardware enough. Need for Speed, Madden - these are the titles that as the generation goes on we will (unless they utilise and optimise more for the Wii hardware) see a growing disparity between the graphical quality on a PS3 / 360 and a Wii and this could be bad for Nintendo. Having said that, Nintendo has never needed the Maddens, Need for Speeds, Mortal Kombats etc to do well (right back to SNES) and with Wii they are persuing a totally different path and I'm sure that exclusive third party titles that use the hardware well will be strong on Wii and may be enough, along with Nintendo's own efforts, to make Wii a success. Nintendo have always said they want to leave Sony and Microsoft to battle it out on that front and take a totally different sector of the market for themselves...



Wii_gamer said: Well this whole thing is an interesting argument. I think thatfor titles like Wii Sports, Elebits etc the argument doesn't apply - much like with Brain Trainings and so on. Titles like Mario, Mario Karts etc kind of fit in halfway - they have always had a fairly basic art / graphical style for their day - I really like Mario Galaxy, they have made it clean, sharp and typically Mario-like in terms of primary colours, simple shapes etc. This is also ok.
I think the folks at Nintendo Tokyo have really paid attention to the visual design in Super Mario Galaxy and I like it ver much. Wii Sports is also nice and unique with it's Miis and shiny plasticy environment. However, I woudn't praise Elebits on the design, Konami even stated that they didn't focus on graphics (unlike the case with Dewy's adventure). There's of course games that don't need great visuals like brain teasers, but still the majority of genres benefit from it. By saying graphics do matter, I mean I wouldn't play an FPS with Wolfenstein 3D -kind of graphics on Wii, unless I want a retro experience. Nintendo really benefitted from games like Resident Evil 4, Rogue Squadron and Metroid Prime on GC so I think it's ok to make also pretty games for the Wii.



Yulegoat said: Wii_gamer said: Well this whole thing is an interesting argument. I think thatfor titles like Wii Sports, Elebits etc the argument doesn't apply - much like with Brain Trainings and so on. Titles like Mario, Mario Karts etc kind of fit in halfway - they have always had a fairly basic art / graphical style for their day - I really like Mario Galaxy, they have made it clean, sharp and typically Mario-like in terms of primary colours, simple shapes etc. This is also ok. I think the folks at Nintendo Tokyo have really paid attention to the visual design in Super Mario Galaxy and I like it ver much. Wii Sports is also nice and unique with it's Miis and shiny plasticy environment. However, I woudn't praise Elebits on the design, Konami even stated that they didn't focus on graphics (unlike the case with Dewy's adventure). There's of course games that don't need great visuals like brain teasers, but still the majority of genres benefit from it. By saying graphics do matter, I mean I wouldn't play an FPS with Wolfenstein 3D -kind of graphics on Wii, unless I want a retro experience. Nintendo really benefitted from games like Resident Evil 4, Rogue Squadron and Metroid Prime on GC so I think it's ok to make also pretty games for the Wii.
Definitely, and Capcom, Factor 5, Namco, Nintendo probably will in the shape of similar games to those. They have already shown that they have got to grips with the hardware on GC - it is the other developers (western devs generally) who seem to turn out poor ports on gc / wii and this needs to change



Definitely, and Capcom, Factor 5, Namco, Nintendo probably will in the shape of similar games to those. They have already shown that they have got to grips with the hardware on GC - it is the other developers (western devs generally) who seem to turn out poor ports on gc / wii and this needs to change
Hey, I agree entirely. BTW, Factor 5 is a western developer, but they are people that don't mock their customers (they've done one of the best old Amiga franchise, Turrican). It reminds me of several things. First, lots of people think (perhaps lead by trolls) that Nintendo said graphics don't matter. Of course, they never said that. They said that what was possible to do on the Wii was good enough, to let developers concentrate on the other important parts like gameplay, and not put all the money they have in graphics. And they also said they leave the best graphics race to the other two, as clearly, graphics alone don't sell games. But these graphics they talk about, are not on the Far Cry Wii level. They were talking about graphics better than RE4. When all games have at least this quality (better than RE4), then the devs will be able to dedicate most of their money in other areas of the game. I see why these western devs are surprised : they made crappy games, and they can't deny it. All this is my speculations, remember ! But I think they've done these crappy games to fill some quota, and then say that they abandon the Wii (that nearly none of them acknowledged before E3 2006) because their games don't sell. The thing is, people with a Wii bought even these crappy games. I know I won't : it's telling that the few games I plan to buy all come from japanese companies, most from Nintendo itself. So they were surprised even these crappy games sold, games that surely didn't cost them a lot to make. So you bet they're all tripping over themselves to develop for the Wii now. And Nintendo, as planned, leave them some months of mercy between its own game releases, so that 3rd party games aren't crushed by their (better) games. But I say all these western devs should be aware of the fact that once poor games are associated with their names, gamers won't buy their games anymore. And that their poor games won't fly once several good ones are out this year, because then, they will have no excuse to make poor games, as we will have something to measure their quality. Yes, I never liked all these western devs, as most are so lazy, and blame everything on Nintendo. When you see what Capcom pulled out on GC, or even Factor 5, the others just have no excuses, especially for the Wii. For now, I understand the PS2 ports too, as the devs can test what they can do with the Wii with this method, while still selling something decent. I think it's a good thing : it shows they know they won't be able to launch games graphically poor in the future. They know they have to put out games better than the end of life PS2 games. Which seems very easy to do, showing that of course, the Wii can do far better when used correctly. Concerning Red Steel, it isn't a bad game, but it's a bad launch game. A launch game has to be better than that. Finally, my only problem now with the Wii, is Nintendo Europe, with its prices and Wii games : they're just too expensive (60 €). They don't realise that this is yet another incentive for me to mod my Wii as soon as possible, so that I can buy japanese or USA Wii games. Even buying them in the USA with shipping, I can get the price of a mod chip by buying less than 5 games, and it's even better by buying japanese games. There is even more incentive, when french games aren't even dubbed in french when coming to France (I love RPG). They aren't even in the original japanese either, they're dubbed in english (crap). WIth a crappy black and white manual. I think this is plain unacceptable, but this is another matter entirely.



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Wii_gamer said: Well this whole thing is an interesting argument. I think thatfor titles like Wii Sports, Elebits etc the argument doesn't apply - much like with Brain Trainings and so on. Titles like Mario, Mario Karts etc kind of fit in halfway - they have always had a fairly basic art / graphical style for their day - I really like Mario Galaxy, they have made it clean, sharp and typically Mario-like in terms of primary colours, simple shapes etc. This is also ok.
You are right in pointing out design can be optional but with games like rogue squadren, RE4, Super mario sunshine, Starfox adventures and FF:crystal chronicles it goes to show that the ramp up for R&D should already be done for these types of games. There shouldn't have to be new R&D to implement these features so why are they not apparent in these games? Maybe he is right. devs are either being lazy or sloppy and the majority of fans are not expecting enough so they are content with what they get.



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You're right in pointing out that there are several gamecube games with decent graphics engines, but that only applies to a few companies in the current market. Remember Nintendo's current situation, if you had said they'd be in this current position a year ago, most gamers would laugh your face off. Now developers are in a slightly tougher spot, they can : 1) Ignore the Wii 2) Build/port a decent game to take advantage of it's current momentum 3) Take a risk and develop a top-notch game for Wii A lot of people are unsure how the Wii will do this generation, most people and developers simply presumed PS3 would be on top with maybe the 360 gaining mindshare due to it's online setup. Suddenly the Wii pops into the scene with some massive sales, and a control scheme that says "Take a chance!", a lot of developers are going to be very cautious, and you can't really blame them. I hope Square re-uses the FF:CC engine with some enhancements, as well as gameplay fixes, then focuses on the game itself. FF:CC had great potential, but some significant flaws killed it for most people.



Nobody is crazy enough to accuse me of being sane.

Julian Eggebrecht equal Captian Obvious on this one. I mean honestly his argument applies to the Gamecube just as much. (Outside of Factor 5, Capcom, Rare, Amusement Vision (Sega), Nintendo, and to a lesser extent Namco) Third party didn't even bother trying to harness the power of the Gamecube. It seems that a lot these developers, cough.Ubisoft..cough, are continuing the trend. It seems EA of call companies is starting to step up and use the Wii hardware. How would have thought that?



Tales of Symphonia for Gamecube was rather beautiful if you like the style. Here's hoping the next Tales game goes to Wii! :)



Nobody is crazy enough to accuse me of being sane.

There is a definite commercial argument that encourages publishers to re-release many PS2/Xbox titles on the Wii - with minimal upgrades. Most time will be spent working on control systems. As a result, I think there will be a lot of "sloppy" Wii ports - esp. in first year or two. Bigger budget Wii titles won't suffer from this at all - I think Wii Sports looks fantastic, as does most of Rayman, etc.



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