Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Is Nintendo headed the wrong way? (As a developer)

Bodhesatva that is sad reality in my opinion. It is like Nintendo still has the Stigma of kiddy, family friendly or second choice system. Come on. If EA is concerned that its major franchises do not sell well in the Gamecube maybe the problem is the franchises aging and not the system itself. Mortal Kombat is just a pale shadow of the phenomenon it was in the past. You can only milk your franchises for a limited time. I never though I would say that but even I am tired of Megaman now. That does not mean giving up on the franchise or sticking to new trends. Game development needs some spice and freshness sometimes (if that is even a word).
On the other hand I still miss some big names on the DS (real FF games not remakes). Seems like developers try to mimic what works with Nintendo and only make half assed clones. Why not real FF instead of Chronicles? Leave brain training to doctor Kawashima we do not need some crappy clone. Catz, Horsez, Hamterz are not Nintendogs might I say. Some companies should stick to what they do better while trying to improve their abilities. Just look to SquareEnix attempts at action games or Capcom at RPG`s.



Satan said:

"You are for ever angry, all you care about is intelligence, but I repeat again that I would give away all this superstellar life, all the ranks and honours, simply to be transformed into the soul of a merchant's wife weighing eighteen stone and set candles at God's shrine."

Around the Network
Bodhesatva said:
ckmlb said:
Bodhesatva said:
ckmlb said:
Bodhesatva said:
ckmlb said:
Bodhesatva said:


 


 


 


Yeah, I can agree with that. The same is true of the DS. As HappySquirrel pointed out, though, this doesn't need to be the case; games like New Super Mario Bros, Pokemon, Mario Kart DS, and now for the Wii Zelda: Twilight Princess clearly can sell, and can sell well. The market for "core" gamer games on the Nintendo systems is there, but no one has really capitalized on it except Nintendo themselves.

The DS in particular absolutely astounds me, since its been out so much longer. Where are the major third party titles? They're finally coming around I suppose -- Square has delivered a new Final Fantasy, Ninja Gaiden is on the way -- but the DS has been dominating for well over a year now, and until then, we basically had nothing. There has been no Metal Gears, no Grand Theft Autos, no Kingdom Hearts, no Resident Evils... up until now, the only thing to speak of was a Final Fantasy Remake. None of the major established 3rd party franchises have touched the system, despite its market dominance, and despite the clear evidence that core games can sell well.


Core games when it comes to Nintendo stuff yes, but 3rd party still nothing impressive. Also I think NG on DS will not be a big seller. 3rd party core games still doing poorly relatively speaking on DS and especially on Wii so far, the future we'll see what happens.



That's my point though, Ck. There are no impressive "core" third party sales on the DS because... there are no impressive "core" third party titles developed. Let's go over the list of major third party franchises that have sold over 3 million copies on any platform in the last 6 years:

Tekken
Need for Speed
Metal Gear Solid
Grand Theft Auto
Devil May Cry
Kingdom Hearts
Final Fantasy
Rogue Squadron
Resident Evil
Madden
Medal of Honor
Ninja Gaiden

Of that list, the DS currently has one FF remake, a Need for Speed port and Madden. That's it. By comparison, the PSP has seen Need for Speed, Tekken, an MGS, a GTA, a Final Fantasy, a Medal of Honor, and a Madden.

There aren't even any new IPs that have gotten large budgets, to my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong).

A system with 70 percent market share (and growing) and a comparatively cheap development cost has basically no major third party franchises or major new third party IPs, even while first party "core" titles sell like gangbusters. It's pretty amazing.


 The DS is getting Dragon Quest, which isn't on your list. As for large budgets, that's hard to say, since the DS is much less to develop for than any other major system right now.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Bodhesatva said:
ckmlb said:
Bodhesatva said:
ckmlb said:
Bodhesatva said:

I think that's a fair point, Ck, but I do feel like you go too far the other way. Fishing is a mini-game? Poker as a mini-game? If Fishing and Poker are mini-games, then they're pretty crappy ones, because it's basically the only mini-game on the disc :p

I think realistically the total amount is somewhere in between what I put (which includes games no one has ever heard of) and what you have (again, Fishing isn't really a mini-game. I think you're just including any game that fits in a genre you don't care much about). Something like 20 percent, perhaps?


They aren't exactly your traditional video game either they are those casual games for non gamer types.


Okay, that definitely makes a difference. Rather than just saying "mini game" types, how about "games for more casual players?" Then I think we're getting somewhere.


Ok the Wii is being dominated by casual games with traditional ones being lower than ever. Fishin and card games are the kind of stuff you can play on your PC for free they don't count in the same category as Mario or anything traditional...


 Yeah, I can agree with that. The same is true of the DS. As HappySquirrel pointed out, though, this doesn't need to be the case; games like New Super Mario Bros, Pokemon, Mario Kart DS, and now for the Wii Zelda: Twilight Princess clearly can sell, and can sell well. The market for "core" gamer games on the Nintendo systems is there, but no one has really capitalized on it except Nintendo themselves.

The DS in particular absolutely astounds me, since its been out so much longer. Where are the major third party titles? They're finally coming around I suppose -- Square has delivered a new Final Fantasy, Ninja Gaiden is on the way -- but the DS has been dominating for well over a year now, and until then, we basically had nothing. There has been no Metal Gears, no Grand Theft Autos, no Kingdom Hearts, no Resident Evils... up until now, the only thing to speak of was a Final Fantasy Remake. None of the major established 3rd party franchises have touched the system, despite its market dominance, and despite the clear evidence that core games can sell well. 


I think the DS hasn't been getting many big games becuase it isn't a big system. Even with the Gameboy line that sold amazingly well there were never big titles on it. I think developers are a bit iffy when it comes to putting big names on a tiny console. That and the system has always been a side of little kids(for the most part, or atlease seen that way).

Also, i think this may only be a perseved problem(with lack of hardcore games). We haven't seen Nintendo's line up for the futute. So, it's possible we have a Pikmin, Starfox, Mario Kart oranother big hitter in the future. As I said(and others as well) we'll have to wait till E3 to really judge. Also, while most 3rd parties are going casual, there are still hardcore games coming out. Square-Enix announcced Chocabo's Dungon resently along with Crystal Bearer, No More Heros, Red Steel 2(which is hopefully good) and Nights. The big titles are going to come later. They take longer to develop. Also, with Smash and Galaxy going to sell well, i wouldn't be surprised if some developers started up some more Hardcore games.

Also, I think it would be in Nintendo's best interest if they focus on easy to learn, hard to master games. With Brawl using the wiimote, it seems like trying to get non-0gamers to try and feel more confertable with the game. I think Nintendo needs to be doing this. Smash and Mario kart have mastered it the best. It's not hard to learn how to play them, but there is enough depth that you'll keep playing it. I assum a lot of games can be like this. Pit Staffox in the 64 like setting(simpler, staight foward) and make controlls easy. Us only A, B and the controller pad. A is shoot, B Bomb, up is boost, down Break, left is summersult, tilt it to turn better and twist it back and foth to do a barrel roll. Simple(but you' have to callibrate the barrel roll better). Not complex at all. i think Nintendo has plenty of properties that can do this and do it well. Makes everyone happy amnd maximises sales.



Double post!



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

LordTheNightKnight said:
Bodhesatva said:
ckmlb said:
Bodhesatva said:
ckmlb said:
Bodhesatva said:
ckmlb said:
Bodhesatva said:


 


 


 


Yeah, I can agree with that. The same is true of the DS. As HappySquirrel pointed out, though, this doesn't need to be the case; games like New Super Mario Bros, Pokemon, Mario Kart DS, and now for the Wii Zelda: Twilight Princess clearly can sell, and can sell well. The market for "core" gamer games on the Nintendo systems is there, but no one has really capitalized on it except Nintendo themselves.

The DS in particular absolutely astounds me, since its been out so much longer. Where are the major third party titles? They're finally coming around I suppose -- Square has delivered a new Final Fantasy, Ninja Gaiden is on the way -- but the DS has been dominating for well over a year now, and until then, we basically had nothing. There has been no Metal Gears, no Grand Theft Autos, no Kingdom Hearts, no Resident Evils... up until now, the only thing to speak of was a Final Fantasy Remake. None of the major established 3rd party franchises have touched the system, despite its market dominance, and despite the clear evidence that core games can sell well.


Core games when it comes to Nintendo stuff yes, but 3rd party still nothing impressive. Also I think NG on DS will not be a big seller. 3rd party core games still doing poorly relatively speaking on DS and especially on Wii so far, the future we'll see what happens.



That's my point though, Ck. There are no impressive "core" third party sales on the DS because... there are no impressive "core" third party titles developed. Let's go over the list of major third party franchises that have sold over 3 million copies on any platform in the last 6 years:

Tekken
Need for Speed
Metal Gear Solid
Grand Theft Auto
Devil May Cry
Kingdom Hearts
Final Fantasy
Rogue Squadron
Resident Evil
Madden
Medal of Honor
Ninja Gaiden

Of that list, the DS currently has one FF remake, a Need for Speed port and Madden. That's it. By comparison, the PSP has seen Need for Speed, Tekken, an MGS, a GTA, a Final Fantasy, a Medal of Honor, and a Madden.

There aren't even any new IPs that have gotten large budgets, to my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong).

A system with 70 percent market share (and growing) and a comparatively cheap development cost has basically no major third party franchises or major new third party IPs, even while first party "core" titles sell like gangbusters. It's pretty amazing.


The DS is getting Dragon Quest, which isn't on your list. As for large budgets, that's hard to say, since the DS is much less to develop for than any other major system right now.


 It's also getting Ninja Gaiden and already HAS a new Final Fantasy (it just hasn't been released in the States). I know they're coming, I'm just saying it's amazing that they haven't already arrived. The DS isn't a 6 month old phenomenon-out-of-nowhere like the Wii is. It's predecessor owned the market, the DS has been out for over 3 years, and it has dominated the market for almost a 18 months now. How can a system be that popular for that long and get no major support from third parties? 



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

Around the Network

Wow I have a lot to respond to. First I'd just like to say something about me, I'm always easy going and lax and at times I even make a casual almost sacrastic, more so freindly goofy joking comments. (Thank you mancandy for picking up on that) Even when my text here comes off aggressive I can assure you that's not my intent. I'd like to say that only because alot is lost in typing.

Now onto the responses:

Bodhesatva: first off it's a little much too call 1,000 healthy recipes a game, sure cooking Mama is, this other one is not, it's a digital cook book, you don't call a cookbook a game. There are other programs designed to prepare you for major tests and such, again the equvialnet to test prep course not really a game.(that'd be like calling a math test in school a game).  if this was sold for the computer it would sit next to Word, Excel, Photoshop and other application that are not called games. 

Then you say this:

hey aren't video games you personally like. That's fine. I probably think many of the games you like are garbage, too.

I never said I personally didn't like these "games" in fact in that same post I said myself I'd be buying some of those games if and when they come out in America.

And about me speaking for everyone comment well I never said I'm speaking for everyone. I said this is what I think all gamers are afraid of. I guess I'm not entitled tomy own thoughts? I guess you don't take such broad statements with a grain of salt? Come on, it'd be like you saying, "I think everyone bought the Wii because the controls are fun!" and I say, "how dare you! Your don't represent me, I never said the controls were fun."

So I hope you see where I'm coming from. And My point really was to say: anyone who's concerned with a loss of traditional games is most likely concerned with the volume of these new titles slowing traditional development. Sorry if my loose interpretation of that statement offended you. But what I find funny is that we have more in common as gamers then you may think. I own Brain Age, Big Brain Acadamy, and cooking Mama(for both the Ds and Wii) as I've stated. I love these casual games, I own plenty of them. I don't even like Gears of War or God of War and I hate Killzone.

But in the end I could never truly represent you as a gamer primarily because I don't accept Snuggles as currency.

 Mancandy: about the multimedia comment, you win, again my description of the DS wasn't to rank the DS above other systems in the multimedia battle. If someone were to ask me whats more of a multimedia device the DS or the PSP, I'd answer: the PSP. I should have never used the word multimedia, it's really multifunction.  I was just making an observation of all the new versital software the DS has, it seems to carry more and more additional functions other then gaming, and they've expanded this concept and carry more of this software then any other device. Hence my calling it more multimedia(But as you brought out multimedia isn't the right word, becauce despite the various software it still uses the same media to perform these tasks.)

 

I hope that clarifies a few things. 



@Bodhesatva... A lot of those DS titles seem to be more like software, which is enjoyable, but we're really pushing the term game... Not saying all or even the majority, but a lot... hell if they can do a cookbook, where is the Bartender's Bible, it could even quiz you on recipes, that would be really cool.... imagine it listed on someone's job app, then they're like a scene from Cocktail LOL



Alacrist said:
Escape from Bug Island is not out yet I'm waiting to buy it.

 Don't do it man... it might actually kill you with how awful it is.



Thanks to Blacksaber for the sig!

i would really like to use my ds as a recipe book. yes im a gamer who also likes cooking ;). im not that concerned about it though. if the movie industrie is a good indication i think there will still be a lot non-casual games. the ratio might be different : more casual then hardcore. but my gues is both markets will grow only the casual will grow a lot faster. it doesnt matter as long there will be enough hardcore games (and gamers to buy them).



First off, we are attacking the intelligence of people who are "afraid" of education and mental exercise. I don't go crazy for em, but I like 'em when they amuse me.

Second, Project Hammer (no periods for me) looked pretty but lacks/ed depth from the start. Alien Syndrome isn't as pretty, but seems much more fun. Games from third parties can also be the cause of cancelations, Nintendo might not want to compete with itself.

Third, can we stop with the emotional posts that count off like my ex-girlfriends.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.