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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Is DVD-9 enough this generation?

FJ-Warez on 15 June 2007
windbane said:
Gballzack said:
Blue3 said:
Gballzack said:
Blue3 said:
Br = no load times in Uncharted, the whole world is streamed of the disk.

ahh can your dvd-9 do it, um NO.

More importantly, does my DVD-9 need to do that, um NO.


it CANT do it, cause of its lack of space.

no one wants loads times.

But is it an absolute necessity at this point in gaming that there be no load time what-so-ever? No. A luxury is a luxury, not a necessity. And while we'd all like faster loading games, I think most gamers can live with DVD-9. The real issue here isn't what Blu-Ray can do better but whether or not Blu-Ray is an absolute necessity or just an expensive luxury.


Is a wiimote really a necessity? No. Please stop diminishing great features.

But is boosting the sales, making people happy, helping to reach more audience, and has been acclaimed for several developers.

 

Is the Blu-ray a great HD format?? Maybe, but right now is open wound for the PS3 and the consumers.

 

Edit: Even Sony has found a way to acclaim the Wii-mote. 



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windbane on 15 June 2007
Gballzack said:

While Sony and 9 other companies are involved as oppossed to just Sony themselves it doesn't change the fact that it still increases Sony's strangle hold on the media markets. And while there is actually one Porno on Blu-Ray already, Sony is still fighting it and doing everything they can to make sure no more appear. The fact Sony is fighting it is what is the problem, the fact that they are showing a willingness to attack genres and try and impose restriction on content. Don't give me, "Who watches porn on DVD anymore?" That's not the damn point! And I seriously doubt that's why Sony is fighting it. They tried fighting it on Beta-Max too, Sony's ideals of content censorship is a trend that's not going away. I don't need my media provider forcing their moral decisions on me regardless whether those decisions infringe on my immediate personal interests or not. It's the principal, not the practicality.

You all paint these pretty technophile pictures of a utopian disc format, yet fail to take into consideration whether or not Sony actually will actually utilize the format in 1. Any of the ways you claim it can, 2. Any of the ways they claim it can, 3. Any way that will benefit the market or consumer. With Sony pushing ever onward in their excessively paranoid agenda of piracy protection at the cost of the consumer, I don't want them having anything to do with a dominant disc format irregardless its potential or promise.

It's plain and simple naivity to look at the situation and ignore Sony's track record in favor of your technophile wet dream called Blu-Ray. As of now there are no problems with DVD-9 that need immediate resolution in favor of a new format. There is nothing to justify a new disc format except HD-TVs which only have a less than 10% market penetration. Blu-Ray isn't a technological Messiah, its a Trojan Vehicle in a Gaming System, its a step towards an even greater format and industry Monopoly, its a marketing scheme to increase the demand of HD-TVs which surprise surpise Sony and its 9 constituants have a great deal of resources invested in. Most damning of all is that its another weapon in the arsenal of a malicious international company that has showed us time and time again it can't be trusted and will sell out the consumer for the sake of their convenience at the drop of a hat. Yet you just cover your ears and pretend none of this happening why you try and brag about how technologically wonderful Blu-Ray is...

P.S. Don't you dare try and pull a, "but all companies look out for themselves.". That's not the same damn thing as what Sony's doing. Of course a Company looks out for its own interests, but most Companies recognize the welfare of the consumer as the greatest key to the longevity of their success. While Companies like Nintendo respond to market trends and try to enable new audiences within a market, Sony tries to make, force and enforce trends at the cost of whoever gets in their way. I can think of no other media company that has been accused of or caught so many times of participating in maliscious, illegal or unethical business practices to further their own ends. Sony stands out above and beyond the scope of any other company ever involved in multi-media or gaming in terms of its maliscious acts against the consumer and the market as a whole, to deny this is asinine at its finest, to call this bias is dellusional, to argue it is an argument against reality.


Considering I'm morally against porn, I really don't care if Sony tries to block it.  I'm sure you are in favor of friend codes, though, because Nintendo is always trying to "protect kids."  Which is worse?  Friend codes.  Oh, and protecting kids from third parties having the same access to online kits.  Much worse.

The greatest features are already in use for blu-ray:  video, audio, scratch proof, more space.  Movie studios all want copy protection.  They would not support a format that didn't at least try to stop piracy.

I think Sony has a great optical format track record.  The CD and DVD worked out great.  There many problems with DVD-9:  it doesn't provide the best audio, it has inferior video quality for HDTVs, it doesn't have the space neccesary for that audio and video, and it's easily damaged.  HD-TV is going to be there no matter what movie format we use, because in 2009 every station much broadcast in HD.  People want HD because it looks better.  Blu-ray is the best format to move forward with HDTVs.  Also, I want a quote stating the actual penetration.

"While Companies like Nintendo respond to market trends and try to enable new audiences within a market, Sony tries to make, force and enforce trends at the cost of whoever gets in their way."  I know you are a hopeless Nintendo fanboy, but Nintendo certainly wants money as much as any other company.  They tried to charge way too much for cartridge use for generations and lost third party support for the N64 and Gamecube.  Sony is trying to advance the market to HD to make money.  Of course they want to make money, but if consumers didn't enjoy the products they wouldn't keep buying them.  Saying Sony is forcing people to buy HDTVs is just ignorance.  Nintendo is trying to expand the videogame market because they want to make money.  All 3 console companies have screwed over fans at many points.  Btw...responding to market trends?  I think Nintendo is a little late on that internet thing... 



Blue3 on 15 June 2007

I must say Sony never screwed me over, of all electronics i ever had theirs were always the best, pricey yes.

But you get what you pay for, and i dont mind paying for top end hardware and quality.



FinalEvangelion on 15 June 2007

As long as they can do multiple discs, it's ok. I just hope not too many developers are concerned of cramming to a single disc just for the sake of an ego.

All this blu-ray bashing - reminds me of the 90s when DVD was competing with VHS. Soon enough we'll see players for $50 that include DVD/BD/HD-DVD. Prices are already falling so much for high def players.



"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."  --Hermann Goering, leading Nazi party member, at the Nuremberg War Crime Trials 

 

Conservatives:  Pushing for a small enough government to be a guest in your living room, or even better - your uterus.

 

Legend11 on 16 June 2007
Gballzack said:
Legend11 said:
nicomcm said:
gballzack, Sony in "everything" they do arent as "monopolistic" as Microsoft. Sony do Electronic products, movies, music, video games... and we all know that there's great competition everywhere... They dont make huge profit like Microsoft who has already killed the competition and use it to kill other competitor in other market... Look at Microsoft history... there's much to say too.

Nicomcm since you're new to posting here I'll fill you in on the situation here.  Gballzack is a *major* Nintendo fan(girl?) who obviously thinks Nintendo can do no wrong while Microsoft and Sony (damn them!) can do no right.  So no worries that she's letting Microsoft off the hook since you'll likely see her try to rain on the parade of any new 360 release by claiming it's either:

a) A boring uncreative first person shooter played by potty mouthed boys and other immature people.

or 

b) That it looks like crap (even if it is gorgeous) and that artisic designed games look better and she'll no doubt mention one of the Zelda games from the gamecube and hold it's graphics up as superior.

or

c) That it's not a new IP so it's just rehashing old stuff (don't bother mentioning Mario Party 8, Super Mario 22, Zelda 11 and Pokemon 18 since they're from Nintendo so they get a free pass).

Anyways welcome to the forum!

Oh look, a shallow attack on my character. Isn't that much easier than actually responding to anything I have to say and proving the validity of your claims anyway in the slightest? :) Funny, last time you and I had a debate you ended up erasing all your replies in the debate (despite the fact they had all been quoted) and dissapeared from the forum for two weeks.


It wasn't any debate with you that made me delete my old posts although feeling like I was mocked in the posts I made in the "Picture Yourself" thread really got under my skin.  And there were other reasons including an email warning I got but in the end I came back because there are some decent people who post here.



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akuma587 on 16 June 2007

Apparently GBallzack thought everything in my last post was a direct reply to (or attack on) him, not one that also replied to Dryden and other people. Seriously, GBallzack, don't take things personal, and don't make things personal. It is pretty childish and I really don't think, and can tell that other people think, you add little if anything to these forums.

Does anyone else think Sony killed GBallzack's parents? Maybe he is just a rabid fanboy.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

cousinwes on 16 June 2007

HEY DUDES, read this article a couple of months ago, i think it answers the question about whether we will have enough space on a dvd 9, it says new compression technology ALREADY being used for xbox live downloads can compress game data down to 90% (if i read that right) of its original size!!

its called PROCEDURAL TEXTURING.....the future, so its looking increasing likely that we WONT need expensive blue ray.....or will we?

heres the link;  

http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2006/11/09/Procedural_Textures_Future_Gam/1

cousinwes on 16 June 2007

sorry just read post above who mentioned it already..but have a read..its quite interesting........



SleepWaking on 16 June 2007

i'm covering GBallzack on this on, she is right it we don't really need BD, not for gaming at least i wouldn't care if i have to change my disc every 12 hours of gameplay. I like the ps3, but i don't like sony at all. Root-kit, liksang and there psychotic war against hackers really put me off. they also fucked me over with my HDTV and that really learned me how much sony is giving about there customers. they used to have very good service. (never as good as phillips though). i hope they don't win the war between BD and HD-dvd. they should do equally. and be replaced by a better media solution.



nicomcm on 16 June 2007

Thank you windbane and legend11 =)

I think the blu ray is not the real problem... the problem behind this is that a lot of people cant buy the PS3 and cant wait for a price drop ... They want everything now... And so they justify their choices for the lower specs systems....
All this is just a problem of price and patience... Because there's not a single doubt that a silent bd drive who support 50go in the PS3 is better than the simple DVD drive in the Wii/360 , 1 stage in Lair takes a couple of Go I've heard and with the size of the map and details, I believe it...( streamed textures and 3D )
The PS3 is the real HD next gen console in this generation, the only system that offers to everyone Online + Hard Drive + HDMI 1.3 + High Density drive... And all that without the cheap look of the 360... and yes it has a price.

I dont want a half generation change for the PS3 because people cant be patient for price drop or cant wait with the PS2 who has a great support... You dont buy a console for 2 or 3 years, it takes more than that to take the mass market... It's a complex generation because there's SD and HD-TV... and the best position for the long term was to look in the futur with a single offer ready to have a good price when HD really begin to be mainstream.
So for the futur, full experience of quality and HD content, the best way is Blu Ray and the cheap way in the short term is DVD-9... I prefer pay something strong at the begining and be happy with the technology with years, than pay less and be behind in some years and have to pay again and more in total...
Dont forget that in the 200$ more there's not just blu ray... with all the features it can represent 70$ of it... how long to wait to have a BD player with Wifi for BD Live features at 70$ ? Or do you want multiple ethernet cable behind your TV ? The fusion of a player and videogame machine is a great deal.

For the liksang story.. it's Nintendo who has take the more money from liksang... something like 3 times what they had to pay for Sony.... So it's their illegal business that killed them slowly... not Sony.

And for hackers... sony gives linux on the PS3 for homebrew and are very open with developement... That's more than Nintendo + Microsoft... how can you say when you see how much games are hacked on the PSP that they dont have the right to ask for something ? It's an utopist point of view to have everything for free... it's far from justice and fair relation.

It's scary how much people can be lost with blogs and story on the web and media... It's like there's conspiration everywhere, that your in danger.... There's the Evil Sony that hates you, dont respect you, and want to make your life worst...
They have an offer, you dont like it you dont buy it it's as simple as that, no need to be so full of hate about it... It's an entertainement business some people take's things to much personnal to be honnest... Consumer with only PS1/PS2 since 1996 were happy, these systems had great lifes with great games... I know like everyone that it was a greater deal than Sega, Nintendo and Microsoft consoles... so why hate the leader ? that makes you cool ? You prefer the big profit of games and hardware of Nintendo ? Or pricey addons, pay to play online,multiple sku, and red ring with the 360 ?
At the last GDC all I remember was that it was only Sony that were pushing the industry in great directions... They are not affraid to push game like Flow, Calling all Car, or Locorocoo, Eye Toy games,singstar, make games like Ico or Shadow of the colossus and at the same time make games like Killzone and God of War... They deserve their position.. they always takes risk with hardware and push doors with software...
I dont like the vision of simple is better, less powerfull is better....you can have creativity and technology at the same time... So the Nintendo way of gaming dont work for me... and if the Wii sells fine its also because it's a bundle of a 200$ console with a 50$ games... that mean nothing.. a PS3 at 250$ with a game will sell so much better than the Wii... Maybe outside japan but it's really cultural...

Nintendo makes a lot a profit in hardware and games... if it cost them 10$ they will sale you the thing for 30$... Is this more consumer friendly thant what's Sony is doing with the PS3 ? With multi millions budget games not far from Wii games Price ?
Well... I suppose I can do nothing.. but I hope in 2 years the systematic fear and negativity around Sony will disapear. It's important to look at the potential and project that are in work... more than just take the easy way of "now".

Again sorry for my english :s