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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Myth of Metal Gear Solid 4 being too much for xbox 360 to handle...

TheRealMafoo on 16 June 2008
starcraft said:
TheRealMafoo said:
 

I have no idea how MGS4 is developed, but I would guess that many of the lighting and texture passes were done in the CELL before handing them off to the RSX (similar to R&C). When you look at the quality of most of the textures, lighting, and resolution all this is rendered at, with never a slowdown, I don't think it's posable on the 360. At least I have never seen a game on the 360 that achieves it, so I have no reason to think it's posable.

The game also has a huge draw distance and incredible sound (sound is not cpu free, great sound takes cycles to produce).

The opening to act 2 I thought was a live action movie, until snake showed up. It's just incredible.

That first line is what you need to focus on.

Someone, I think it was Selnor, was saying that the game actually uses some last-gen textures, I think he used some glass breaking as an example.  As the OP of this thread said, the lighting isn't particularly dynamic.  If there is one thing Halo 3 showed us, its that the Xbox 360 can do lighting like its nobodies business.  Come to think of it, it also showed us that draw distance isn't a problem for the Microsoft console.

But you have highlighted ONE area where its likely sacrifices would have to be made on the Xbox 360.  7.1 audio would come down to 5.1

I don't doubt that MGS4 is incredible to a fan of the genre/series, but thats no reason to run off on an irrational tangent and start declaring the PS3 is the only console that could do it.  The main thing we have seen this generation (besides the fact Nintendo's still got it) is that there is no signficant differential between the power of the PS3 and the power of the Xbox 360.

IF we see any differential, it will be small, will show up at the end of the generation, and will only be seen in the first party/second party titles put out by Sony, due to the PS3's lack of viability RELATIVE to the PS2 shortening its tail. 

 


hahahaha, I forgot you work for Microsoft. I am done arguing with you.

Anything done on the PS3... ANYTHING, can be done on the 360... that's what your saying, and only an idiot would actually believe that. You are not an idiot, so you are obviously being paid by MS. That, or I miss judged your intelligence.

it's 2:15AM here, and I have to go to work tomorrow. Good night everyone.



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HeroeDeLeyenda on 16 June 2008

This may be old but here it is anyways:

According to a 1up.com video post, Hideo Kojima has admitted that the Xbox 360 is capable of running the Metal Gear Solid 4 real-time demo. Despite the PlayStation 3 propaganda on display throughout the demo, Kojima's comments reaffirm many gamers' opinions that the two next-gen consoles aren't separated by much in terms of sheer graphical power. Today's lesson: Don't be a victim of hype.

http://www.joystiq.com/2005/11/16/kojima-mgs4-demo-could-run-on-the-xbox-360/



"I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all- you live in the heart of the beast." 

Ernesto "Che" Guevara.

starcraft on 16 June 2008
TheRealMafoo said:
starcraft said:
 

That first line is what you need to focus on.

Someone, I think it was Selnor, was saying that the game actually uses some last-gen textures, I think he used some glass breaking as an example. As the OP of this thread said, the lighting isn't particularly dynamic. If there is one thing Halo 3 showed us, its that the Xbox 360 can do lighting like its nobodies business. Come to think of it, it also showed us that draw distance isn't a problem for the Microsoft console.

But you have highlighted ONE area where its likely sacrifices would have to be made on the Xbox 360. 7.1 audio would come down to 5.1

I don't doubt that MGS4 is incredible to a fan of the genre/series, but thats no reason to run off on an irrational tangent and start declaring the PS3 is the only console that could do it. The main thing we have seen this generation (besides the fact Nintendo's still got it) is that there is no signficant differential between the power of the PS3 and the power of the Xbox 360.

IF we see any differential, it will be small, will show up at the end of the generation, and will only be seen in the first party/second party titles put out by Sony, due to the PS3's lack of viability RELATIVE to the PS2 shortening its tail.

 


hahahaha, I forgot you work for Microsoft. I am done arguing with you.

Anything done on the PS3... ANYTHING, can be done on the 360... that's what your saying, and only an idiot would actually believe that. You are not an idiot, so you are obviously being paid by MS. That, or I miss judged your intelligence.

it's 2:15AM here, and I have to go to work tomorrow. Good night everyone.

Actually I said nothing of the sort..........

I said that the PS3 and the Xbox 360 are very close in terms of power, and that its only towards the very end of the generation that the PS3 will show its slight power advantage, far too late to have any effect on sales. 

 



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

DOATS1 on 16 June 2008

at the end of the day, mgs4 is on the ps3, it's terrific, it sold ALOT on day one, and has moved a lot of hardware. i see no down side to the effect of this game, so i don't know why there is so much negativity around it. with sales like this, it's almost certainly NOT going to the 360 at all in my opinion.

they tried to put it on an ms console with mgs2, but sales sucked, so mgs3 never got released on it. neither will mgs4 to be honest. what idiot would wait around a year (i presume) to play a metal gear game of this quality if they wanted to? after a year, like any other fast selling, huge game, people who want it would have got it already.




*bleu-ocelot* on 16 June 2008
starcraft said:
Feylic said:
Producer Ryan Payton says that mgs4 is using almost all the space on a dual layer disc in this interview, at about 3:30

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/35170.html . Just to clear it up.

HE didn't explain how a game that had a four year development cycle switched to dual layer six months ago and somehow managed to double in size in that small period of time.........

Actually at the end of the interview he says something interesting.  "We love the Xbox 360 and we think its a great machine, you know, Microsoft's a great company.  Its just our focus was to get this out on the PS3, take advantage of the hardware and get this out as quickly as possible."  

Like I said.  We don't have to debate whether there are any technical obstructions to a 360 port, we need to debate whether Konami will spend enough on the port to overcome them. 

 


Even the president of Konami hints at exclusivity.Saying that people will buy a PS3 just for this game,and he was right. 1.3million first day,with all the bundles(75k) sold out.So if MGS4 bombs,then maybe....oh wait it didn't.Try again. http://kotaku.com/366736/konami-president-thinks-people-are-waiting-for-mgs4

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Blaiyan on 16 June 2008

oh boy




Lone_Canis_Lupus on 16 June 2008
starcraft said:
TheRealMafoo said:
 

I have no idea how MGS4 is developed, but I would guess that many of the lighting and texture passes were done in the CELL before handing them off to the RSX (similar to R&C). When you look at the quality of most of the textures, lighting, and resolution all this is rendered at, with never a slowdown, I don't think it's posable on the 360. At least I have never seen a game on the 360 that achieves it, so I have no reason to think it's posable.

The game also has a huge draw distance and incredible sound (sound is not cpu free, great sound takes cycles to produce).

The opening to act 2 I thought was a live action movie, until snake showed up. It's just incredible.

That first line is what you need to focus on.

Someone, I think it was Selnor, was saying that the game actually uses some last-gen textures, I think he used some glass breaking as an example.  As the OP of this thread said, the lighting isn't particularly dynamic.  If there is one thing Halo 3 showed us, its that the Xbox 360 can do lighting like its nobodies business.  Come to think of it, it also showed us that draw distance isn't a problem for the Microsoft console.

But you have highlighted ONE area where its likely sacrifices would have to be made on the Xbox 360.  7.1 audio would come down to 5.1

I don't doubt that MGS4 is incredible to a fan of the genre/series, but thats no reason to run off on an irrational tangent and start declaring the PS3 is the only console that could do it.  The main thing we have seen this generation (besides the fact Nintendo's still got it) is that there is no signficant differential between the power of the PS3 and the power of the Xbox 360.

IF we see any differential, it will be small, will show up at the end of the generation, and will only be seen in the first party/second party titles put out by Sony, due to the PS3's lack of viability RELATIVE to the PS2 shortening its tail. 

 


 Listen, starcraft, both are VERY close in power. This is true, but the hardware of both are COMPLETELY different from each other. If you utilize a feature of one, it's going to be hard to duplicate that effect on the other. 

 Take the processors. The 360 has 3 general purpose cores...so it can run a lot of processes at once. The PS3 has 1 general purpose core, and several other cores used for specific processing. The PS3 can process very quickly with all of it's cores...but since it only has 1 general purpose core(the main one that controls everything), it can only process so much at one time. The 360, while it may not be able to process some things as quickly as the PS3 would, it can run many processes at once unlike the PS3.

 I'm not the most tech-savvy person in the world, but from that you'd think the 360 would be able to handle sandbox-type games better than the PS3...and the PS3 would be able to handle linear games better than the 360 would. At least that's what I seem to gather from the processors abilities. If I got this all wrong, someone smart correct me please. xP



PSN: Lone_Canis_Lupus

MikeB on 16 June 2008
HeroeDeLeyenda said:
This may be old but here it is anyways:

According to a 1up.com video post, Hideo Kojima has admitted that the Xbox 360 is capable of running the Metal Gear Solid 4 real-time demo. Despite the PlayStation 3 propaganda on display throughout the demo, Kojima's comments reaffirm many gamers' opinions that the two next-gen consoles aren't separated by much in terms of sheer graphical power. Today's lesson: Don't be a victim of hype.

http://www.joystiq.com/2005/11/16/kojima-mgs4-demo-could-run-on-the-xbox-360/

But that's 2005 and now is 2008. They certainly made some improvements, like Resistance 2 will be based on an improved engine compared to Resistance 1 and demands far more power. Just wanted to point that out, comments from 2005 do not per se mean much today.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

macross on 16 June 2008

http://www.logic-sunrise.com/releases-7586-metal-gear-solid-4-guns-of-the-patriots-pal-ps3-dnl.html

http://www.logic-sunrise.com/releases-7583-metal-gear-solid-4-guns-of-the-patriots-jpn-ps3-caravan.html 

From what I have been googling so far!

Pal version is 65 X 500MB= 32500 MB= 31.74 GB(Yes, far more lower than everyone's thought)
Jap version is 324 X 100MB= 32400 MB= 31.64 GB
No information for US version so far.

1 Dual layer of DVD = 8.54 GB
4 DL DVD = 34.16 GB

So, it is just like Lost Oddyssey, which is totally possible.
Mr. Kojima was quite disappointed with PS3.
I believe some of that were Graphical Power, nothing has been super-realistic so far. Uncharted is way better than this in my opinion and many other Xbox 360 titles too.



Poor PS3 Sales Means Smaller Losses

"Actually, because the number of units sold was not as high as we hoped, the loss was better than our original expectation," Quotes from Sony’s CFO Nobuyuki Oneda.

Ail on 16 June 2008
macross said:
http://www.logic-sunrise.com/releases-7586-metal-gear-solid-4-guns-of-the-patriots-pal-ps3-dnl.html

From what I have been googling so far!

Pal version is 65 X 500MB= 32500 MB= 31.74 GB(Yes, far more lower than everyone's thought)
Jap version is 324 X 100MB= 32400 MB= 31.64 GB
No information for US version so far.

1 Dual layer of DVD = 8.54 GB
4 DL DVD = 34.16 GB

So, it is just like Lost Oddyssey, which is totally possible.
Mr. Kojima was quite disappointed with PS3.
I believe some of that were Graphical Power, nothing has been super-realistic so far. Uncharted is way better than this in my opinion and many other Xbox 360 titles too.

There's a lot of false assumptions made in this thread about installs.

Some 360 SKUs have no HDD so the game would have to be made to support this.

If you go the way of several discs ( which would be a necessity for the 360) you're going to have to replicate a lot of information on each discs, because you can't write it on the HDD. A lot of the graphics and stuff is the same accross every act. On PS3 that stuff only has to be once on the Blue Ray.

If you go the way of several discs you suddenly have to replicate that data on every disc and that reduces a lot the amount of new data you can put on every disc.

I have no clue how much size that data  is but it could easilly reach 1Gb.

Second assumption is that a Dual Layer DVD for the 360 is 8.54 Gb, there is only 7Gb useable for game content on a 360 DVD ( Google, it, wikipedia search it, it's easy to verify). So lets do the maths now :

 7 Gb per disc : 31.5Gb total : 5 discs.

Factor the data that has to be replicated on every disc ( lets guess 1 Gb) and you now have 6 discs...

That's about double than what has been speculated on this thread... 

 

 



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !