MontanaHatchet said: highwaystar101 said: Oh dear... All I can say is thanks to the Mod who banned Etech7 otherwise he would be spammeing this thread no-end. Oh, you are most welcome. To be honest, you can read Einstein's biography. He was fed thoughts of Anti-Semitism during his childhood. Naturally, anyone of his intelligence will have grown their psyche to an extent that an all-powerful and all-knowing god seems childish. And if there's no god, there's no way that Jews could be the chosen people. Try to keep this thread under control people.

Isn't that like saying 360 is the best, and the PS3 and Wii are worse then hitler.

Lets try not to have any irrational fanboy arguements in this thread people.

I mean, that's basically flamebait for anyone who believes in god... besides which, there were a great number of brilliant scientists who have and do believe in god. 

Strategyking92 said: Edge112 said: Moongoddess256 said: Thats not defending religion, thats being Agnostic. You know like, there's no way to confirm or deny the existence of god. I'm not religous but all I know is humans came from Evolution in Afira and migrated out into the world. The cosmic event: big bang made the universe. I am unsure about evolution, but that is the most ridiculous statement a person can make. How can something come from nothing? it can't. But, if there was a force that has always and forever will be here, then it had all intentions to create.

That's not what the big bang was.  It didn't start with nothing, according to the theory it started at a singularity, which is not the same thing. 

This is a topic where being too quick to call someone's thoughts, ideas or statements stupid is just going to end up in an unconscionable mess.

superchunk said: Religion should be your personal relationship. Not someone else's.

*rubs his DS*

Let's never fight again.

superchunk said: MrBubbles said: i dont know how anyone who can see israel at 60 years since its re-establishment and not see some sort of a divine hand at work. Logically there is no way they could have lasted so long surrounded by so many enemies. You are so wrong on so many levels. This thread isn't about the history of zionism and Israel so I won't dive into it too much, but you really need to study your history. Simply put though, how can you consider an nation that was trained in European militaries, has always had a larger force than all of this foes combined, and has always had better weapons some kind of miracle? There is no divine hand keeping them alive, it is the fact they are, and have always been, better trained, equiped, and larger than anyone else in the region. If you want to continue this off topic discussion please pm me. However, I couldn't leave this fallacy in this thread untouched.

 Larger force then all its foes combined, i guess you must of read the History books wrong.  Israel has always had a smaller force then its foes, and has continued to smash them in each war they have had.  During the Yom Kippur War this was what the Military was like.  Syria and Egypt were also buying and receiving top of the line Military from the USSR.  They had the best Anti-Tank and Anti-Air missiles they could get their hands on for this war.

isreal had
415,000 troops,
1,500 tanks,
3,000 armored carriers,
945 artillery units,
561 airplanes,
84 helicopters,
38 Navy vessels

Egypt:
800,000 troops
2,400 tanks 
2,400 armored carriers
 1,120 artillery units
 690 airplanes
161 helicopters
104 Navy vessels

Syria: 150,000 troops
 1,400 tanks,
 800–900 armored carriers,
600 artillery units
350 airplanes,
36 helicopters,
21 Navy vessels,
Iraq: 60,000 troops,
700 tanks,
500 armored carriers,
200 artillery units,
 73 airplanes,

at OP, Einstein didn't believe in Quantum Mechanics either.

Einstein was a great guy, but he is not infallible. Anyone recall the "Cosmological Constant"? So like Superchunk, my opinion is meh.

The cosmological constant came back into favour there a few years ago, they thought it might be the key to something or other, can't remember the details, haven't read any physics for a few years now.

But yes, of course he is fallible. Anyone who is using Einstein's letter as the arguement for the non-existence of God must have had a pretty weak belief or arguement to begin with.

Personally i think it's a storm in teacup, a man of science says he doesn't believe in God, stop the press....

hsrob said: Strategyking92 said: Edge112 said: Moongoddess256 said: Thats not defending religion, thats being Agnostic. You know like, there's no way to confirm or deny the existence of god. I'm not religous but all I know is humans came from Evolution in Afira and migrated out into the world. The cosmic event: big bang made the universe. I am unsure about evolution, but that is the most ridiculous statement a person can make. How can something come from nothing? it can't. But, if there was a force that has always and forever will be here, then it had all intentions to create. That's not what the big bang was. It didn't start with nothing, according to the theory it started at a singularity, which is not the same thing. This is a topic where being too quick to call someone's thoughts, ideas or statements stupid is just going to end up in an unconscionable mess.

Yeah, but the problem with the big bang is that something had to happen to get to that point. Which would theoretcally be a big crunch.... which would of happened from a big bang... it's just a big repeating scale that really doesn't answer how anything was actually created.

It's more fair to say nothing was created... and the universe was created in the same way salt water is created by combing salt and water.

Of course that's where Big Bang is confusing, since if i remember correctly the speed at which the universe is expanding is increasing and not decreasing do to the presence of dark energery making the whole.

The Big Bang Model is seems to be flawed in a number of ways to where it makes me wonder if people are supporting it more just because we can't come up with another theory currently.

Even if the Big Bang is how the universe came to be, the question is... how did the Big Bang happen...

and this becomes problematic because basically if this is the case, and there was no god or some other factor that created stuff, this is just going to go backwords in time infinitly, just how things will move foward in time infinitly, and there will be no answer to how everything started because, there was no start.

Which is just confusing... because the building blocks of everything existing forever is just as confusing and hard for people to comprhend as a god that has existed forever.

I mean, can you imagine that everything that exists... including that which makes you up has in some form or another existed for an Infinite amount of time before you... it kinda makes you wonder how it ever got to you because humans expect everything to have a beggining and an end, likely because we have a beggining and end.

Griffin said: superchunk said: MrBubbles said: i dont know how anyone who can see israel at 60 years since its re-establishment and not see some sort of a divine hand at work. Logically there is no way they could have lasted so long surrounded by so many enemies. You are so wrong on so many levels. This thread isn't about the history of zionism and Israel so I won't dive into it too much, but you really need to study your history. Simply put though, how can you consider an nation that was trained in European militaries, has always had a larger force than all of this foes combined, and has always had better weapons some kind of miracle? There is no divine hand keeping them alive, it is the fact they are, and have always been, better trained, equiped, and larger than anyone else in the region. If you want to continue this off topic discussion please pm me. However, I couldn't leave this fallacy in this thread untouched. Larger force then all its foes combined, i guess you must of read the History books wrong. Israel has always had a smaller force then its foes, and has continued to smash them in each war they have had. During the Yom Kippur War this was what the Military was like. Syria and Egypt were also buying and receiving top of the line Military from the USSR. They had the best Anti-Tank and Anti-Air missiles they could get their hands on for this war. isreal had 415,000 troops, 1,500 tanks, 3,000 armored carriers, 945 artillery units, 561 airplanes, 84 helicopters, 38 Navy vessels Egypt: 800,000 troops 2,400 tanks 2,400 armored carriers 1,120 artillery units 690 airplanes 161 helicopters 104 Navy vessels Syria: 150,000 troops 1,400 tanks, 800–900 armored carriers, 600 artillery units 350 airplanes, 36 helicopters, 21 Navy vessels, Iraq: 60,000 troops, 700 tanks, 500 armored carriers, 200 artillery units, 73 airplanes,

Without a source you are just rambling.

Above all you have to remember that Israel has always had a mandatory military service for all Jewish Israelis (Men and women). This alone gives them a considerable force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War is a good summation of sources on the closest war they have ever had. Even here Israel's forces were nearly twice that of Arab's.

My main source is an highly recommended book Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict, Fourth Edition: A History with Documents by Charles D. Smith a leading expert in Middle Eastern history at the University of Arizona. Where I had a minor in Near Eastern Studies and took a class on this conflict taught by a retired US ambassador to Egypt that used this book and another general Middle Eastern history class taught by Charles Smith himself.

This book details all records from that time including population figures and all original documents for the entirity of the conflict.

Israelis from day one were always larger, better trained, and better equipped. The only reason Yom Kippur was initially successful for Arabs was because they struck first when Israel wasn't prepared and had not massed their reservists. Once that was done, they took over. Plus, Israel had mostly US armaments which were almost always superior to their older Russian counterparts, especially in regards to Tanks.

Again, if you would like to continue this in great detail, I can, just PM me.

@Kasz216

The Big Bang is confusing, that's why people like Steven Hawking muse over it while us mere mortals play video games. Part of the problem is human beings natural tendency to separate time and space and see time as a constant. The typical question being, "Well what was there before the big bag?" The answer, well there was no time before the big bag or not in the sense that we understand it.

You are right about the cyclical nature of the Cosmos that it implies and that in itself is a pretty unrewarding conclusion. The Big Bag doesn't imply an absolute beginning of anything, just a beginning that we can start from as anything before the expansion of that singularity is unpredictable and in fact has no influence on our current universe, or so the theory goes.

It is this very fact that had lead many great minds in the field to conclude that there may in fact have been a higher being or power who put everything into motion in the infinite past but just because we as a species can't currently understand it doesn't make them right.

There is much that we didn't understand in the past that we now do. People still think being cold will give them a cold, but it is not so. Just people think or feel there must have been a beginning and therefore an end, does not make it so.

p.s. Was a pleasure reading your post

superchunk said: Griffin said: superchunk said: MrBubbles said: i dont know how anyone who can see israel at 60 years since its re-establishment and not see some sort of a divine hand at work. Logically there is no way they could have lasted so long surrounded by so many enemies. You are so wrong on so many levels. This thread isn't about the history of zionism and Israel so I won't dive into it too much, but you really need to study your history. Simply put though, how can you consider an nation that was trained in European militaries, has always had a larger force than all of this foes combined, and has always had better weapons some kind of miracle? There is no divine hand keeping them alive, it is the fact they are, and have always been, better trained, equiped, and larger than anyone else in the region. If you want to continue this off topic discussion please pm me. However, I couldn't leave this fallacy in this thread untouched. Larger force then all its foes combined, i guess you must of read the History books wrong. Israel has always had a smaller force then its foes, and has continued to smash them in each war they have had. During the Yom Kippur War this was what the Military was like. Syria and Egypt were also buying and receiving top of the line Military from the USSR. They had the best Anti-Tank and Anti-Air missiles they could get their hands on for this war. isreal had 415,000 troops, 1,500 tanks, 3,000 armored carriers, 945 artillery units, 561 airplanes, 84 helicopters, 38 Navy vessels Egypt: 800,000 troops 2,400 tanks 2,400 armored carriers 1,120 artillery units 690 airplanes 161 helicopters 104 Navy vessels Syria: 150,000 troops 1,400 tanks, 800–900 armored carriers, 600 artillery units 350 airplanes, 36 helicopters, 21 Navy vessels, Iraq: 60,000 troops, 700 tanks, 500 armored carriers, 200 artillery units, 73 airplanes, Without a source you are just rambling. Above all you have to remember that Israel has always had a mandatory military service for all Jewish Israelis (Men and women). This alone gives them a considerable force. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War is a good summation of sources on the closest war they have ever had. Even here Israel's forces were nearly twice that of Arab's. My main source is an highly recommended book Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict, Fourth Edition: A History with Documents by Charles D. Smith a leading expert in Middle Eastern history at the University of Arizona. Where I had a minor in Near Eastern Studies and took a class on this conflict taught by a retired US ambassador to Egypt that used this book and another general Middle Eastern history class taught by Charles Smith himself. This book details all records from that time including population figures and all original documents for the entirity of the conflict. Israelis from day one were always larger, better trained, and better equipped. The only reason Yom Kippur was initially successful for Arabs was because they struck first when Israel wasn't prepared and had not massed their reservists. Once that was done, they took over. Plus, Israel had mostly US armaments which were almost always superior to their older Russian counterparts, especially in regards to Tanks. Again, if you would like to continue this in great detail, I can, just PM me.

 How can you saw they were always larger when i just showed you the Miliatary numbers for the Yom Kippur War.  They were out numbered and were attacked first giving the Egyptian/Syrian armies time to plan and equip themselves for the war.  And here is the source. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War#Nuclear_alert  

Now yets take a look at the numbers for the 6day war.  As you can see the Israel army was outnumbered again .  And here is the Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

Israel
264,000 (incl. 214,000 reserve troops)
300 combat aircraft
800 tanks

Egypt: 240,000
Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq:307,000
957 combat aircraft
2,504 tanks