By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Banjo Kazooie - Nuts and Bolts Trailer!!!!!!!!

Onyxmeth on 14 May 2008
johnsobas said:
Onyxmeth said:

Here's my point Ben, and I'll use Rare as an example to keep it in the family:

This game was created in 1983:

It was a classic and the first masterpiece from a man that would become a living legend in gaming.

Now this is how Rareware butchered the series 11 years later(Note the similiar time difference):

I'm sure there were plenty of people that were WTFing when they saw a magazine and realized a precious gem like Donkey Kong that they held dear to their heart was going to turn into some Mario-like game. Now how did that turn out again? For the better, huh?

When you're skipping two console generations, you can't just slap a prettier coat of paint on an oldie but goody and call it a day even though that's all we want. Rare, for better or worse have always been innovators and have thought outside the box numerous times. I trust they can reinvent the platformer for the better, because Banjo is as loved by them as it is by you guys, and if they feel this is the best way to take the series I'll stick with it. They turned something else from a masterpiece to a completely different masterpiece and I don't think anyone regrets that decision nowadays.


You don't seriously think this is a good comparison do you? The technical limitations in the first donkey kong were insane. BK on 360 could basically be made on N64 with downgraded graphics. If you think they could have made a game that even slightly resembles Donkey Kong Country on the old arcade machine you are out of your mind. People expected much much more complex games on SNES then they did when donkey kong came out.

That's not the point. First of all, I doubt the new Banjo could be played on the N64. The worlds are massive, the customization options are supposed to be huge and there was no online back then. Better hardware doesn't just mean pretty graphics. There are other elements, like physics, the N64 couldn't produce that will be center stage in this game.

Secondly, it isn't about SNES handling more complex games. They changed the core of Donkey Kong itself. Do you remember what the point of Donkey Kong even was? You're not playing that big ape up top. He's the villain, and you're the Jump Man. There's no second monkey, there's no princess to save, etc. The SNES game had none of the core of what made Donkey Kong what it was originally. It was completely changed. My point was, I'm sure there were people that would have loved an updated look to the core gameplay and not turn it into a Mario platformer, but Rare made wise choices and the series was rejuvenated because of them. 

 



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.



Around the Network
johnsobas on 14 May 2008
disolitude said:
johnsobas said:
 

You don't seriously think this is a good comparison do you? The technical limitations in the first donkey kong were insane. BK on 360 could basically be made on N64 with downgraded graphics. If you think they could have made a game that even slightly resembles Donkey Kong Country on the old arcade machine you are out of your mind. People expected much much more complex games on SNES then they did when donkey kong came out.


Why isn't that a good comparison? Graphics leap may not be as high, but new things which are mainstream in today gaming like online coop play, DLC and sandbox can not be applied to a regular platformer... I believe this is what was considered when this game was designed because that is all the rage today. That is exactly what they did with DKC in 1994. Back then it was all about "blast processing" and great graphics...and mascotts with attitude...


 this all is based around the idea that platforming is outdated and should be replaced by things like sandbox gameplay and its wrong.  Games were forced to fundamentally change everything back then, that's not the case anymore.  I'm not talking about graphics, i'm literally saying that a game like DKC was not even remotely possible to make on machines back in the day in any form.  It is too complex, too big, controls are too complicated etc.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

Kasz216 on 14 May 2008
Onyxmeth said:
johnsobas said:
Onyxmeth said:

Here's my point Ben, and I'll use Rare as an example to keep it in the family:

This game was created in 1983:

It was a classic and the first masterpiece from a man that would become a living legend in gaming.

Now this is how Rareware butchered the series 11 years later(Note the similiar time difference):

I'm sure there were plenty of people that were WTFing when they saw a magazine and realized a precious gem like Donkey Kong that they held dear to their heart was going to turn into some Mario-like game. Now how did that turn out again? For the better, huh?

When you're skipping two console generations, you can't just slap a prettier coat of paint on an oldie but goody and call it a day even though that's all we want. Rare, for better or worse have always been innovators and have thought outside the box numerous times. I trust they can reinvent the platformer for the better, because Banjo is as loved by them as it is by you guys, and if they feel this is the best way to take the series I'll stick with it. They turned something else from a masterpiece to a completely different masterpiece and I don't think anyone regrets that decision nowadays.


You don't seriously think this is a good comparison do you? The technical limitations in the first donkey kong were insane. BK on 360 could basically be made on N64 with downgraded graphics. If you think they could have made a game that even slightly resembles Donkey Kong Country on the old arcade machine you are out of your mind. People expected much much more complex games on SNES then they did when donkey kong came out.

That's not the point. First of all, I doubt the new Banjo could be played on the N64. The worlds are massive, the customization options are supposed to be huge and there was no online back then. Better hardware doesn't just mean pretty graphics. There are other elements, like physics, the N64 couldn't produce that will be center stage in this game.

Secondly, it isn't about SNES handling more complex games. They changed the core of Donkey Kong itself. Do you remember what the point of Donkey Kong even was? You're not playing that big ape up top. He's the villain, and you're the Jump Man. There's no second monkey, there's no princess to save, etc. The SNES game had none of the core of what made Donkey Kong what it was originally. It was completely changed. My point was, I'm sure there were people that would have loved an updated look to the core gameplay and not turn it into a Mario platformer, but Rare made wise choices and the series was rejuvenated because of them.

 


One your missing a bunch of Donkey Kong games in between. Donkey Kong Jr. for example. Where you aren't jumpan. You are Diddy Kong's predecessor. Donkey Kong 3.

Also a traditional remake was released the same year as DK Country... it was GREATLY expnaded from the original concept. I know what your thinking... it's a remake! But it's a remake that went from 4 stages to 101!

So even in your example that has some flaws.... you were completely wrong.  Anyone missing the old DK game had a game that more then made up for the differences in DK Country.



Onyxmeth on 14 May 2008
RolStoppable said:
Onyxmeth said:
(...)

I'm sure there were plenty of people that were WTFing when they saw a magazine and realized a precious gem like Donkey Kong that they held dear to their heart was going to turn into some Mario-like game. Now how did that turn out again? For the better, huh?

When you're skipping two console generations, you can't just slap a prettier coat of paint on an oldie but goody and call it a day even though that's all we want. Rare, for better or worse have always been innovators and have thought outside the box numerous times. I trust they can reinvent the platformer for the better, because Banjo is as loved by them as it is by you guys, and if they feel this is the best way to take the series I'll stick with it. They turned something else from a masterpiece to a completely different masterpiece and I don't think anyone regrets that decision nowadays.

That's a pretty bad example, don't you think? A platforming game evolved into a modern platforming game. Mario's career started with the same game as Donkey Kong's career and while Mario evolved step by step over a decade into a top notch 16-Bit platformer, Donkey Kong did it in a single step.

If Banjo-Kazooie (which had Super Mario 64's spirit) would follow the path you gave in your example, this would lead us to a pure 3D platformer like Super Mario Galaxy with various minigames (like the first two B-K games had) to earn jigsaws.

Important sidenote: In the same year as Donkey Kong Country was released, Nintendo released Donkey Kong for the Game Boy which included the original game and an additional ~100 levels. So fans of the original game could go with the GB game if they didn't like the SNES game. So a fair solution for Banjo-Kazooie would be to give fans of the old games a worthy sequel while making Nuts and Bolts in addition to it.

What do you think this new Banjo is, a racing game? It's still a platformer. It's just not like any other platformer ever made. You use vehicles instead of Banjo himself for various parts of the game. I hope you, and everyone else accusing Banjo of being something other than a platformer actually read up on the media gameplay articles and didn't just watch that video and make assumptions. I just don't understand why no one thinks a platformer can be made with vehicles. 

Even Miyamoto took Mario out of the driver's seat in his own game and gave you Yoshi to play with, and that turned out rather well...twice. It sure did recieve a lot of backlash at the time though. That I remember very clearly.

Regarding a handheld vesion, it's probably likely it could happen in the future. Rare already re-released Diddy Kong Racing for the DS and have Viva Pinata coming over too. Banjo seems likely. Will that shut people up about this game though, probably not. 

 



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.



Kasz216 on 14 May 2008
Onyxmeth said:
RolStoppable said:
Onyxmeth said:
(...)

I'm sure there were plenty of people that were WTFing when they saw a magazine and realized a precious gem like Donkey Kong that they held dear to their heart was going to turn into some Mario-like game. Now how did that turn out again? For the better, huh?

When you're skipping two console generations, you can't just slap a prettier coat of paint on an oldie but goody and call it a day even though that's all we want. Rare, for better or worse have always been innovators and have thought outside the box numerous times. I trust they can reinvent the platformer for the better, because Banjo is as loved by them as it is by you guys, and if they feel this is the best way to take the series I'll stick with it. They turned something else from a masterpiece to a completely different masterpiece and I don't think anyone regrets that decision nowadays.

That's a pretty bad example, don't you think? A platforming game evolved into a modern platforming game. Mario's career started with the same game as Donkey Kong's career and while Mario evolved step by step over a decade into a top notch 16-Bit platformer, Donkey Kong did it in a single step.

If Banjo-Kazooie (which had Super Mario 64's spirit) would follow the path you gave in your example, this would lead us to a pure 3D platformer like Super Mario Galaxy with various minigames (like the first two B-K games had) to earn jigsaws.

Important sidenote: In the same year as Donkey Kong Country was released, Nintendo released Donkey Kong for the Game Boy which included the original game and an additional ~100 levels. So fans of the original game could go with the GB game if they didn't like the SNES game. So a fair solution for Banjo-Kazooie would be to give fans of the old games a worthy sequel while making Nuts and Bolts in addition to it.

What do you think this new Banjo is, a racing game? It's still a platformer. It's just not like any other platformer ever made. You use vehicles instead of Banjo himself for various parts of the game. I hope you, and everyone else accusing Banjo of being something other than a platformer actually read up on the media gameplay articles and didn't just watch that video and make assumptions. I just don't understand why no one thinks a platformer can be made with vehicles.

Even Miyamoto took Mario out of the driver's seat in his own game and gave you Yoshi to play with, and that turned out rather well...twice. It sure did recieve a lot of backlash at the time though. That I remember very clearly.

Regarding a handheld vesion, it's probably likely it could happen in the future. Rare already re-released Diddy Kong Racing for the DS and have Viva Pinata coming over too. Banjo seems likely. Will that shut people up about this game though, probably not.

 


 It's not that a platformer can't be made with vechicles.  It's that a revived Banjo platformer shouldn't focus on them.  The animals weren't the focus on DK country afterall.



Around the Network
ToastyJaguar on 14 May 2008

I think the old Banjo fans should get a grip and stop being selfish. Sheesh your all like "awww but that's not what i wanted".

It sounds very lame and very childish.

Hopefully this game will be very successful and every pro games journalist who has played it has only said brilliant things about the game.

You need to learn to stop living in the past, otherwise you will be playing the same game every couple of years and never see anything new.




Onyxmeth on 14 May 2008
Kasz216 said:
Onyxmeth said:
johnsobas said:
Onyxmeth said:

Here's my point Ben, and I'll use Rare as an example to keep it in the family:

This game was created in 1983:

It was a classic and the first masterpiece from a man that would become a living legend in gaming.

Now this is how Rareware butchered the series 11 years later(Note the similiar time difference):

I'm sure there were plenty of people that were WTFing when they saw a magazine and realized a precious gem like Donkey Kong that they held dear to their heart was going to turn into some Mario-like game. Now how did that turn out again? For the better, huh?

When you're skipping two console generations, you can't just slap a prettier coat of paint on an oldie but goody and call it a day even though that's all we want. Rare, for better or worse have always been innovators and have thought outside the box numerous times. I trust they can reinvent the platformer for the better, because Banjo is as loved by them as it is by you guys, and if they feel this is the best way to take the series I'll stick with it. They turned something else from a masterpiece to a completely different masterpiece and I don't think anyone regrets that decision nowadays.


You don't seriously think this is a good comparison do you? The technical limitations in the first donkey kong were insane. BK on 360 could basically be made on N64 with downgraded graphics. If you think they could have made a game that even slightly resembles Donkey Kong Country on the old arcade machine you are out of your mind. People expected much much more complex games on SNES then they did when donkey kong came out.

That's not the point. First of all, I doubt the new Banjo could be played on the N64. The worlds are massive, the customization options are supposed to be huge and there was no online back then. Better hardware doesn't just mean pretty graphics. There are other elements, like physics, the N64 couldn't produce that will be center stage in this game.

Secondly, it isn't about SNES handling more complex games. They changed the core of Donkey Kong itself. Do you remember what the point of Donkey Kong even was? You're not playing that big ape up top. He's the villain, and you're the Jump Man. There's no second monkey, there's no princess to save, etc. The SNES game had none of the core of what made Donkey Kong what it was originally. It was completely changed. My point was, I'm sure there were people that would have loved an updated look to the core gameplay and not turn it into a Mario platformer, but Rare made wise choices and the series was rejuvenated because of them.

 


One your missing a bunch of Donkey Kong games in between. Donkey Kong Jr. for example. Where you aren't jumpan. You are Diddy Kong's predecessor. Donkey Kong 3.

Also a traditional remake was released the same year as DK Country... it was GREATLY expnaded from the original concept. I know what your thinking... it's a remake! But it's a remake that went from 4 stages to 101!

So even in your example that has some flaws.... you were completely wrong. Anyone missing the old DK game had a game that more then made up for the differences in DK Country.

I'm only as wrong as those that decided there hasn't been a Banjo game in 10 years since as I recall a GBA platformer was released in 2003, making it five years and a racing game was released in like 2006, which you may count or don't towards this argument. I figured we were only considering the releases that mattered through cherry picking. I suppose if a Banjo game does show up on the DS in the future everyone here will forgive this game's existence right? Hmmm... doubtful.

Frankly, it's of little concern to me. Just another game others will blindly hate and not play while I can enjoy it to it's fullest. Disolitude I'll see you online when this bad boy gets released. My propeller copter with side springs will so wreak whatever contraption you cook up. 

 



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.



Krusnik on 14 May 2008
johnsobas said:
Krusnik said:
I see there are alot of hypocrits on here that usually proclaim objectivity of there posts in forums already writing off this game based on a trailer that highlights one area of innovation. Funny thing is as I look at the names of said people, they are pretty much the same persons that some time back were declaring that the game would suck because Rare was no longer making it for nintendo and they should put it on the Wii [my guess is nintendo can do no wrong]
The thing is you nay-sayers are already quick to convict with out sufficient burden of proof. Wait for more info from Rare, and don't blow a gasket because the game isn't @ cookie-cutter of their past exploit.

 yea and most of the people that are defending the change in the game either haven't played Banjo Kazooie or didn't like it.  

As has been said a million times, you don't just revive a series that has been dead for so long and alienate all the fans of the original gameplay.   Many people have been waiting 10 years for this game to come out.

 

well i guess that makes me the anomaly then. i have my N64  and both games still, and i'm in different to changes. I'm planning on purchasing the game and i'm actually interested in what the came up with. As for your second statement if they were looking for the same i guess they'll be just as satisfied with a HD remake then....hmm let's i think they have that one covered already.

Seriously if you were plannning on getting this in the first place a little diversity should'nt hurt your decision, in my opinion folks that make this a deal-breaker weren't genuinely interested at all, whilst the odd fanboy in between fan the flames



Kasz216 on 14 May 2008
Onyxmeth said:
Kasz216 said:
Onyxmeth said:
johnsobas said:
Onyxmeth said:

Here's my point Ben, and I'll use Rare as an example to keep it in the family:

This game was created in 1983:

It was a classic and the first masterpiece from a man that would become a living legend in gaming.

Now this is how Rareware butchered the series 11 years later(Note the similiar time difference):

I'm sure there were plenty of people that were WTFing when they saw a magazine and realized a precious gem like Donkey Kong that they held dear to their heart was going to turn into some Mario-like game. Now how did that turn out again? For the better, huh?

When you're skipping two console generations, you can't just slap a prettier coat of paint on an oldie but goody and call it a day even though that's all we want. Rare, for better or worse have always been innovators and have thought outside the box numerous times. I trust they can reinvent the platformer for the better, because Banjo is as loved by them as it is by you guys, and if they feel this is the best way to take the series I'll stick with it. They turned something else from a masterpiece to a completely different masterpiece and I don't think anyone regrets that decision nowadays.


You don't seriously think this is a good comparison do you? The technical limitations in the first donkey kong were insane. BK on 360 could basically be made on N64 with downgraded graphics. If you think they could have made a game that even slightly resembles Donkey Kong Country on the old arcade machine you are out of your mind. People expected much much more complex games on SNES then they did when donkey kong came out.

That's not the point. First of all, I doubt the new Banjo could be played on the N64. The worlds are massive, the customization options are supposed to be huge and there was no online back then. Better hardware doesn't just mean pretty graphics. There are other elements, like physics, the N64 couldn't produce that will be center stage in this game.

Secondly, it isn't about SNES handling more complex games. They changed the core of Donkey Kong itself. Do you remember what the point of Donkey Kong even was? You're not playing that big ape up top. He's the villain, and you're the Jump Man. There's no second monkey, there's no princess to save, etc. The SNES game had none of the core of what made Donkey Kong what it was originally. It was completely changed. My point was, I'm sure there were people that would have loved an updated look to the core gameplay and not turn it into a Mario platformer, but Rare made wise choices and the series was rejuvenated because of them.

 


One your missing a bunch of Donkey Kong games in between. Donkey Kong Jr. for example. Where you aren't jumpan. You are Diddy Kong's predecessor. Donkey Kong 3.

Also a traditional remake was released the same year as DK Country... it was GREATLY expnaded from the original concept. I know what your thinking... it's a remake! But it's a remake that went from 4 stages to 101!

So even in your example that has some flaws.... you were completely wrong. Anyone missing the old DK game had a game that more then made up for the differences in DK Country.

I'm only as wrong as those that decided there hasn't been a Banjo game in 10 years since as I recall a GBA platformer was released in 2003, making it five years and a racing game was released in like 2006, which you may count or don't towards this argument. I figured we were only considering the releases that mattered through cherry picking. I suppose if a Banjo game does show up on the DS in the future everyone here will forgive this game's existence right? Hmmm... doubtful.

Frankly, it's of little concern to me. Just another game others will blindly hate and not play while I can enjoy it to it's fullest. Disolitude I'll see you online when this bad boy gets released. My propeller copter with side springs will so wreak whatever contraption you cook up.

 


The Handheld Banjo game was 2-D.

Totally different from the 3-D Banjo games. So... your comparison fails again. It was also badly recieved for not being like the 64 Banjo games.

So your comparison still isn't valid.

 



HappySqurriel on 14 May 2008

I think there is an odd assumption going on hear ... It seems that people are assuming that if you're disappointed that this isn't a straight up Banjo Kazooie game then you obviously will never play this game; this simply isn't true, if the game turns out well I may buy it.

I would personally like to see another Donkey Kong platformer from Nintendo (I think it would work well as a Crash-Bandicoot/Mario Hybrid) and I would be very disappointed if Nintendo announced that they were making a new Donkey Kong game only to find out it was a new game based on the Donkey Kong franchise; I wouldn't necessarily hate the new game, but I would still be disappointed.