totalwar23 said: Levelling System was utter crap. Plot line was utter crap. Combat system was utter crap. Distribution of enemies (or lack of distribution) in open world was utter crap. Enemies were utter crap. Magic, spells were crap. Dungeons were crap. etc, etc... Basically, it was an open world for you to explore but you find that the side quests were absolutely meaningless, which leaves you the main plot line, which still suck. So really, a world where there's nothing interest to do. But that's just me.

Leveling system is based on what you want. The PC version had mods to make it easier if you can't handle stuff leveling with you. Not to mention you could just not level if you wanted. Enemies show up everywhere. If you don't want to fight them, you can run away... Enemies use different attacks to attack you...what would you have added? You can create your own spells. I love the variety and usefullness of spells in Oblivion. I was a mage first. Dungeons could have used a little more variety with enemies, but there are 100s of them. It's hard to make them all unique. The main plot was descent, but the side quests for guilds were what made the game for me. You also got most of the best items on side quests. But then, I'm biased as I just finished it at about 180 hours of gameplay.

windbane said: totalwar23 said: Levelling System was utter crap. Plot line was utter crap. Combat system was utter crap. Distribution of enemies (or lack of distribution) in open world was utter crap. Enemies were utter crap. Magic, spells were crap. Dungeons were crap. etc, etc... Basically, it was an open world for you to explore but you find that the side quests were absolutely meaningless, which leaves you the main plot line, which still suck. So really, a world where there's nothing interest to do. But that's just me.  Leveling system is based on what you want. The PC version had mods to make it easier if you can't handle stuff leveling with you. Not to mention you could just not level if you wanted.  Enemies show up everywhere. If you don't want to fight them, you can run away... Enemies use different attacks to attack you...what would you have added? You can create your own spells. I love the variety and usefullness of spells in Oblivion. I was a mage first. Dungeons could have used a little more variety with enemies, but there are 100s of them. It's hard to make them all unique. The main plot was descent, but the side quests for guilds were what made the game for me. You also got most of the best items on side quests. But then, I'm biased as I just finished it at about 180 hours of gameplay.

 Why bring mods into this? They're not part of the game  and if you need them to make the game better, then the game wasn't good in the first place. Generally, you would add in mods after you beat the game to extend the game's life. And generally, in any game, why would you choose not to level up?

Enemies are sparse and uninteresting and I could easily beat most of them-Daedre enemies were much harder, though. You travel through the country and you might run into a...bandit, or a wolf, or maybe a crab. Wow!!!/sarcasm. Even the lass bost fight were uninteresting not to mention that was the only boss fight. It's been so long I can't remember if there were any bosses for you to take on. That's how much Oblivion left an impression on me. I forgot most of it after I beat it.

 And lastly, why would you put in 100 dungeons in a game when you know they obviously will be similar to each other. It becomes repetetive and boring and most of the time, you're there just out of curiousity to see if it's interesting which it won't be. 100 hours of gameplay without purpose.

windbane said: totalwar23 said: Levelling System was utter crap. Plot line was utter crap. Combat system was utter crap. Distribution of enemies (or lack of distribution) in open world was utter crap. Enemies were utter crap. Magic, spells were crap. Dungeons were crap. etc, etc... Basically, it was an open world for you to explore but you find that the side quests were absolutely meaningless, which leaves you the main plot line, which still suck. So really, a world where there's nothing interest to do. But that's just me. Leveling system is based on what you want. The PC version had mods to make it easier if you can't handle stuff leveling with you. Not to mention you could just not level if you wanted. Enemies show up everywhere. If you don't want to fight them, you can run away... Enemies use different attacks to attack you...what would you have added? You can create your own spells. I love the variety and usefullness of spells in Oblivion. I was a mage first. Dungeons could have used a little more variety with enemies, but there are 100s of them. It's hard to make them all unique. The main plot was descent, but the side quests for guilds were what made the game for me. You also got most of the best items on side quests. But then, I'm biased as I just finished it at about 180 hours of gameplay.

ya I put in 80 plus hours got all 1250 gamerscore and loved alot of the humor some of it was repetitive and and tedeous but over all a great experience I didntcome ino it comparing it to other games like FF7 or morrowwind so I had no disappointments.

also the choice factor of good and evil in gaming is always good decisions???? kindda like KOTOR My kids always lean to the dark side  while I choose the higher moral ground. Little evil bastages. LOL

also it was criticly acclaimed and most people loved it there will always be people who get it and dont like it thats thier perspective.

konnichiwa said: A few years ago I bought Oblivion on the X360 and it ended up to be the game that I played the most for months. During those months I had no social life (except with my gf during the nights), My weight raises 10 kg (no time for sports anymore), it killed my condition, I played no other game and etc... Just for saying that I loved this game so much but after some months when I stopped playing it I went back on the forums and saw a lot of comments like 'Oblivion is a dissapointment,  Oblivion sucks'  I thought then those people were some PS fanboys who wouldn't see that game on their PS3 but after the release of the PS3 version people still posted the game sucks and I found out that a lot of those comment were from Bethesda fans. I feel now like a gamer who bought FFXII and calls it the best game ever when he see a lot of FF fans claiming it is the most sucky one. So can any Bethesda fan who don't like Oblivion tell me what is wrong with Oblivion? PS:  I wanted to ask this to Neos and Rocketpig because those two also didn't liked it if I am right but I thought how more Bethesda fans post their thoughts about it how bigger the possibility that I will understand what is wrong with Oblivion; Greetz konnichiwa;

lastly most FF fans hold FF7 right above God almighty so be careful to say any other game in the series is better or the best!  because it may be great but its like comparing old school nes mario to SMG old schoolers will kill you if you say the newers better. Its oppinion and its okay for you to think ff12 is the best.

Because, while I enjoyed it, it was nothing compared to Morrowind.

They made it so that the game would always adjust to your level, thus meaning that even the most powerful enemies could be killed early on and that you would never be as strong as a mere guard no matter what level you reached, that totally wrecks the believability of the world.

The game felt less like an open-ended RPG than Morrowind as well, the made the world ridiculously large and empty so your only choice was to use fast-travel which once again wrecks how believable the world is.

Also the world felt so incredibally bland, empty and generic in comparison to the Morrowind world.

totalwar23 said: windbane said: totalwar23 said: Levelling System was utter crap. Plot line was utter crap. Combat system was utter crap. Distribution of enemies (or lack of distribution) in open world was utter crap. Enemies were utter crap. Magic, spells were crap. Dungeons were crap. etc, etc... Basically, it was an open world for you to explore but you find that the side quests were absolutely meaningless, which leaves you the main plot line, which still suck. So really, a world where there's nothing interest to do. But that's just me.  Leveling system is based on what you want. The PC version had mods to make it easier if you can't handle stuff leveling with you. Not to mention you could just not level if you wanted.  Enemies show up everywhere. If you don't want to fight them, you can run away... Enemies use different attacks to attack you...what would you have added? You can create your own spells. I love the variety and usefullness of spells in Oblivion. I was a mage first. Dungeons could have used a little more variety with enemies, but there are 100s of them. It's hard to make them all unique. The main plot was descent, but the side quests for guilds were what made the game for me. You also got most of the best items on side quests. But then, I'm biased as I just finished it at about 180 hours of gameplay.  Why bring mods into this? They're not part of the game  and if you need them to make the game better, then the game wasn't good in the first place. Generally, you would add in mods after you beat the game to extend the game's life. And generally, in any game, why would you choose not to level up? Enemies are sparse and uninteresting and I could easily beat most of them-Daedre enemies were much harder, though. You travel through the country and you might run into a...bandit, or a wolf, or maybe a crab. Wow!!!/sarcasm. Even the lass bost fight were uninteresting not to mention that was the only boss fight. It's been so long I can't remember if there were any bosses for you to take on. That's how much Oblivion left an impression on me. I forgot most of it after I beat it.  And lastly, why would you put in 100 dungeons in a game when you know they obviously will be similar to each other. It becomes repetetive and boring and most of the time, you're there just out of curiousity to see if it's interesting which it won't be. 100 hours of gameplay without purpose.

I only mention the mods because people complain about the enemies. Some people say it's annoying they level with you. You and others complain it's too easy. You know, there's a difficulty slider if you want it to be easier or more of a challenge. Not all games need bosses. Most quests had a tougher enemy to take out at the end. I'm sorry there wasn't a dragon at the end of every quest to take out...A lot of quests had groups of enemies to take out, too. The dungeons all had enemies but some of them had vampires, some had necromancers, some had goblins/trolls/ogres, some had traps, etc. There was variation. I guess just not enough for you. I played 180 hours to complete all the main side quests and expansion quests, and most of them had item rewards. The Mage Guild one let you create your own spells. Knights of the Nine and Shivering Isles had all new weapons and armor. The humor was good many times, and the quests tried hard to be varied for having so many. There was purpose to me. I guess some people just don't like the game, and that's fine.

Oblivion is amazing from many technical aspects, but suffers from many bad design decisions (map design, leveling system) and a large sense of generic-ness.

Here's a couple of *examples* of what the community has done to improve the game.

FCOM (in beta)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd6G9zK4D5A

Deadly Combat (v4 works good, v5 in testing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdPt0En3ovg

Midas Mighty Magic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL2sr7RXdEc

And not to mention character creation and races
http://s203.photobucket.com/albums/aa261/deathknowz/?action=view&current=cb736861.pbw

I got about 75+ mods installed in Oblivion currently. :)


Btw, just for my own scale. ;)

Modded Oblivion >>>>>>>>>Modded Morrowind>>>Morrowind>>>>>>Oblivion

It's not that Oblivion is bad or anything, it's just it's predecessor did so much more right. Bethesda tried to make the game more mainstream,
have a casual appeal (yes, you're reading it right).

- Oblivion had a very generic and boring medieval world, Morrowind was spectacular and fresh.
- Combat system has been severely dumped down and simplified.
- Leveling-up system in Elderscrolls series is the best in RPGs so no complaint here :)
- Adjusting loot and enemies to your level just destroyed Oblivion. You could be in a cave for more than an hour killing enemies
and get rewarded with an amazing 30 gold.
- Boring, broken, small main quest.
- Oblivion was supposed to be the next step in the ES series, but many desicions were just awful.

totalwar23 said: Levelling System was utter crap. Plot line was utter crap. Combat system was utter crap. Distribution of enemies (or lack of distribution) in open world was utter crap. Enemies were utter crap. Magic, spells were crap. Dungeons were crap. etc, etc... Basically, it was an open world for you to explore but you find that the side quests were absolutely meaningless, which leaves you the main plot line, which still suck. So really, a world where there's nothing interest to do. But that's just me.

* I agree that the leveling system had a big problem, but in a totally free world it's hard to know where the player will go when he is weak or when he is strong. So to make the game more challenging (and TBH, more appealing to the mainstream gamers) they made enemies level with you. But there still was a big difference between creatures, when you got strong enough mudcrabs and wolfes became fearful and stopped attacking you. Plus you always had the option to adjust the difficulty level (which I did from time to time). Also, IMO it's not fun to be all-powerful like in other RPGs (lets say Diablo from the top of my head)... I guess this is a question of taste... personally I like being the underdog.

* Many people complain about the story and characters of Oblivion. This amazes me, because I simply adore the main quest - it's varied locales, the drama, the characters, the voice-acting, etc. Not to speak of the Dark Brotherhood quests and the other guilds. And the add-ons brought totally different and interesting quests, like Knights of the Nine, Shivering Isles.

* I don't understand this chriticism. I think the combat system is near perfect. You have a combination of real-time, physics based action and pause/round based combat. You have several factors for the statistician/number cruncher in you (which weapon to choose, spells to launch, potions to use etc depending on enemy and situation).

* Distribution of enemies crap? I disagree. You had easier monsters near the main roads and cities (crabs, beers, bandits etc) and harder stuff in far-away landscape and dungeons. Again, perhaps a question of taste... but I don't like to run into an enemy just because the designer wants you to meet one every 10 meter like in an amusement park ride. A believable world should have randomness and also more lonesome and tranquil areas.

* Enemies were crap? I often hear people say that the enemies looked like crap, something I strongly disagree with. I wish you could elaborate what you mean was wrong with them.

* Magic and spells crap? Why? Ive never played an RPG with so many different spells, and from all the magic schools that should be in an RPG. You even had custom spells.

* Dungeons were crap? Which game has more variety in it's dungeons, even if there is 200 of them?

* Side quests meaningless. What games have side-quests with more meaning? In Oblivion they had a story line that made them feel important (not all of them) plus adequate rewards. Of course, I wished they could have connected more with the main quest story-wise sometimes.

routsounmanman said: It's not that Oblivion is bad or anything, it's just it's predecessor did so much more right. Bethesda tried to make the game more mainstream, have a casual appeal (yes, you're reading it right). - Oblivion had a very generic and boring medieval world, Morrowind was spectacular and fresh. - Combat system has been severely dumped down and simplified. - Leveling-up system in Elderscrolls series is the best in RPGs so no complaint here :) - Adjusting loot and enemies to your level just destroyed Oblivion. You could be in a cave for more than an hour killing enemies and get rewarded with an amazing 30 gold. - Boring, broken, small main quest. - Oblivion was supposed to be the next step in the ES series, but many desicions were just awful.

 

- Oblivion takes place in Cyrodiil, which is the center of the world Tamriel, and is the land of Imperials (all the other races in Elder Scrolls have their origins in neighboring provinces) - so it should be more "boring" and generic than Morrowind, which was a very exotic continent in the world.

- You are comparing with the combat system of Morrowind. "Severely" dumbed down is not true though.

- Okay, you are one who likes the leveling system. Good.

- Why should reward be automatic? I like the randomness factor. Not every dungeon should contain amazing loot. It's much more natural to design a world with tons of dungeons, and the explorer-type players love them, but only have a percentage of them be extra rewarding.

- I wish the main quest was longer, but TBH it takes at least half the time of a full FPS game to complete. It wasn't broken (if you don't mean the bugs that a game as ambitious as Oblivion always will have).