SuperLloyd said: Are GTA, Madden and Gran Turismo really considered "core" on this forum? My personal experience with people that buy these games is that they buy ONLY these games and let their consoles rot until the next iteration. That sounds hardly core to me, personally. They can't be contributing to much beyond these two or three franchises.

 No, see, the gap in your logic is that GTA, Madden, and GT sell better on the 'hardcore' consoles, therefore they're hardcore games.

 This is further evidenced by 2/3 of them selling massive amounts last generation.  As we all know, games that are purely hardcore sell much better than those that appeal to the casual demographic, which is why Okami was one of the PS2's best-selling games.  The fact that it's not selling on the Wii is proof that the Wii doesn't have a hardcore userbase.

 Now that you have your facts straight, you may resume your forum-reading. Please don't take this seriously. 

Smart business strategy says hi. All other reasons are secondary. Nintendo knows the whole market, not just the hardcore 20% of it, and they've developed the perfect strategy to exploit it.

libellule said: bdbdbd said: libellule said: bdbdbd said:       So, how can you say that PS2 did kill GC and XBox? What if it was the lack of games? ==> yes, I believe. Games that were released on PS2 and not on GC/DC/Xbox as GTA for example. The same that are still not on Wii ...   OK, so 360 says hi in NA, but despite it saying hi, Wii sells the best, and apparently people are getting PS360:s since Wii is so hard to find. ==> 1/ people are getting Xbox360arcade/PS2 if they can't buy a Wii. Premium/elite/PS3 are too expensive. 2/ Of course, Wii is dominating NA. But I think PS3 sales suffer more from the Xbox360 than the Wii sales. But I agree NA is Xbox360/Wii domination.   In PAL regions, i don't think PS3 is selling anywhere near PS2 levels, since if i recall TheSources "50 million" article, Wii is actually trailing behind PS2 by quite a margin and considering PS3 trailing behind Wii. ==> let's check with VGC table : Europe :  all very close. PAL : Wii = PS2 > PS3. So basically, despite selling very well in PAL/Europe, Wii is not able to STOP PS3 sales that remains very high for a 3rd console.  So, if the market crashed, then what all the fanboys are complaining about? ==> huh ? nobody is complaining since everybody is selling in a way. If Wii would have been similar console to PS360, the 3 would have split the number of consoles PS3 and 360 have sold combined by 3 of them. So, Wii is nothing but good for the industry anyway you want to look at it. ==> hum, YES. so you agree with me that all 3 consoles are selling and that Wii, because targetting casuals/non gamers, is not really inhibiting the PS360 sales despite selling like hot cake ? PS2 was the second in the market, just like PS3, and PS2 killed Dreamcasts sales before PS2 launch. ==> That I agree. As I said, Wii is not able to kill PS360 as PS2 killed DC/Gc/Xbox.

No, i don't agree, Wii is getting a lot of PS360 customers. I was just pointing out what you actually were saying.

You know what, you actually gave the answer what i was expecting to the first question. Notice how you said yet, well as for some games, i doubt we will see them on Wii, but every platform has its exclusives.
Now the thing is, that Wii haven't yet had its full impact on PS360, most of the PS360 games started on 2007, 2006 and even pre PS3 launch, are still in developement. After these games are out, the publishers will head for Wii, since game that's developent is started today, have plenty of time to enter the 2009 christmas market (while PS360 title may hit 2010 market), when Wii has bigger userbase than PS3 and 360 combined.
So, after the games are out, Wii kills the competition (i expect that 2009 is declining sales for PS360, and 2010 will be "death" for the competition, as in context you're talking about). Wii already has quite a few exclusives that the others don't have, with the exception, that quite a few "HD exclusive" title will be ported to Wii, but not the other way around.

Wii has had supply constrains in NA virtually its whole lifetime, and catching 360 in less than 2 years in 360:s strongest market (and the reason why it took so long has been the limited supply), so i hardly would call it "Wii+360" domination.
Besides, you just gave an answer why the 360 is selling by saying people will get 360 Arcades if they can't find Wiis.

If nobody is complaining, what's with all the fanboys ranting about "Wii is destroying gaming", while it clearly was someone else (considering the earlier dominant position in the market: Sony) who destroyed it.

I believe you pointed out yourself why PS2 was able to "kill" the competition, and i pointed out why this same thing will happen with Wii "killing" the competition.

And as Tuoyo pointed out, this generation isn't really different from the previous one.

@Dno: Your conclusion about the price was wrong, although how you made the basis was right.
So, PS2 sold well with "standard" price, Wii is selling even better with "standard" price, and PS3 sells badly with high price, so by making a conclusion, price effects in a way, that if something is expensive, it doesn't sell well. Not in a way that if something is standard priced, it sells good by default (just look at GC sales). And besides, PS3, which is more expensive, have been outselling 360 in USA for the whole year and in Europe since launch.

SuperLloyd said: Are GTA, Madden and Gran Turismo really considered "core" on this forum? My personal experience with people that buy these games is that they buy ONLY these games and let their consoles rot until the next iteration. That sounds hardly core to me, personally. They can't be contributing to much beyond these two or three franchises.

You just descbribed the behavior of audience outside the industry core audience, since these people don't contribute much for the industry. Unless you were specificly meaning the core audience of these specific franchises. But, since the franchises sell a lot, they are core franchises. Two of the games were "bridged" titles and one "casual". Besides, the core audience of the industry is the "casual" audience, since that's the audience that you sell the most games.

Foshoryuken said: In your guys' opinion, why is Nintendo on top and winning right now? As you can all see, Nintendo Wii is still a hot commodity and on top..But why? Luck of the draw? Better games?

Soccer moms are buying themselves Wiis instead of getting their children PS3s.

Two simple things:

a) its got the parental vote (unlike PS3 and 360)

b) its got the zeitgeist


While hardcore gamers will spend more money on games on platforms like 360/PS3 for the big titles like COD4, etc. the simple fact is there are far more families/casual/fun gamers out there in total by far and the console that gets that vote will always take top position - much like PS2 did previously. While PS3 has the brand it just doesn't have the games right now for that demographic - I think Sony really dropped the ball focusing on mature shooters, etc. to compete with MS for that particular demographic instead of making sure they got new versions of R&C, Jak, etc out quickly (and exclusively).

The fact it has the additional boost of catching the zeitgeist just means it selling all the faster.

It was always going to get the loyal Nintendo crowd - but its selling way beyond that demographic right now.

Aquietguy said: Foshoryuken said: In your guys' opinion, why is Nintendo on top and winning right now? As you can all see, Nintendo Wii is still a hot commodity and on top..But why? Luck of the draw? Better games?   I'll have to say because of two reasons. 1) The price point. It has always been low so it attracted more attention than the other two higher priced consoles. 2) The wii mote. They went the innovation route instead of the traditional. Because of this they have expanded to market. They did the right thing because, if they would have went the traditional route, the ps3 would win the gen. Eventually pasting the 360 and they would have been third again. They knew that they had to go another path to beat the 900 pound gorilla named play station. The wii would have been called the kiddy console with HD.

No, the pricepoint isn't low. It's "standard". PS2 isn't outselling Wii even that it's cheaper. 360 is currently cheaper than Wii, and apparently it's still not outselling Wii, and besides, 360 has been on a similar (standard) pricerange for quite some time, while Wii has still outsold it by large margin. Wii Remote is only half of the truth, since it's really nothing without the software supporting it. Just like the gyroscopic function in PS3 controller, bad or half-assed support at most part, makes it a non-factor. So, saying Nintendo made appealing product that is well supported by the main product (software) without pricing it too high (now, being the most expensive Nintendo console doesn't equal cheap), would be a better answer. And since you had only two posts, welcome to VGChartz.

No discussion of Nintendo's success is complete without a link to Maelstrom's site.

http://malstrom.50webs.com/

That site explains at great length what it is that Nintendo is doing right, and why it is that none of the gaming community at large saw it coming.

RolStoppable said: The answer why the Wii is dominating the 360 and PS3 is simple: The Wii offers a better gaming experience.

QFT, 100% agree