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Lest this be purposefully misinterpreted as a push for solely right-wing speech, I also strongly believe that say Captainexplosion, who I am pretty sure is not right-wing, should be allowed to be loudly anti-AI.

If multiple left-leaning posters were telling me they didn't want to use VGChartz any more because they felt marginalised here, I would object to that just the same.

You can't have a healthy forum, or indeed a society, without balance. 

Last edited by curl-6 - 1 day ago

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curl-6 said:
JWeinCom said:

I will repeat what you said. 

"My point in making this thread was that political/controversial speech should be less restricted, not more."

Less restricted means we would have more of it.

I'm not going to keep pushing on a question you don't want to answer, but kind of strange that you can't define the type of speech you're advocating for.

It's more just that people shouldn't be penalised for it. The users who messaged me felt it was mostly right-leaning, centrist, and non-politically correct opinions that were penalised, if that answers your question, but as I said several of these users are here and now active in this thread so they are free to make their case for themselves.

You know, I'm a centrist-to-right-leaning, and one of the reasons I avoid getting into politics here is because I know I'm the minority here, and I'm pretty sure I will get bashed by other users if I give my opinions.

Same thing when it comes to the fact that I'm a AI (in gameplay) supporter.



Alex_The_Hedgehog said:
curl-6 said:

It's more just that people shouldn't be penalised for it. The users who messaged me felt it was mostly right-leaning, centrist, and non-politically correct opinions that were penalised, if that answers your question, but as I said several of these users are here and now active in this thread so they are free to make their case for themselves.

You know, I'm a centrist-to-right-leaning, and one of the reasons I avoid getting into politics here is because I know I'm the minority here, and I'm pretty sure I will get bashed by other users if I give my opinions.

Same thing when it comes to the fact that I'm a AI (in gameplay) supporter.

This is sort of an example of what I mean, in that I'm pretty sure you and me would disagree very strongly on a lot of issues, but I still think you should be able to say those things regardless.

I'm strongly, strongly anti-AI, but if you want to post in support of it, that's not for me to stop you.



curl-6 said:
JWeinCom said:

I will repeat what you said. 

"My point in making this thread was that political/controversial speech should be less restricted, not more."

Less restricted means we would have more of it.

I'm not going to keep pushing on a question you don't want to answer, but kind of strange that you can't define the type of speech you're advocating for.

It's more just that people shouldn't be penalised for it. The users who messaged me felt it was mostly right-leaning, centrist, and non-politically correct opinions that were penalised, if that answers your question, but as I said several of these users are here and now active in this thread so they are free to make their case for themselves.

So then there would be more of it?

No that doesn't answer the question. Politically correct is a meaningless buzz word.

As for right wing views what do you mean? That tariffs should be used to spur domestic production? That we should not implement a global minimum tax? That we should increase domestic oil production? That a lower corporate tax rate will promote gdp growth? That overturning the Chevron doctine was a positive development? We should not have a single payer healthcare system?

Those are all right wing views and I'm pretty sure anyone can say them at any time. So it seems people can espouse right wing views.

Unless there are particular views you are referring to?



JWeinCom said:
curl-6 said:

It's more just that people shouldn't be penalised for it. The users who messaged me felt it was mostly right-leaning, centrist, and non-politically correct opinions that were penalised, if that answers your question, but as I said several of these users are here and now active in this thread so they are free to make their case for themselves.

So then there would be more of it?

No that doesn't answer the question. Politically correct is a meaningless buzz word.

As for right wing views what do you mean? That tariffs should be used to spur domestic production? That we should not implement a global minimum tax? That we should increase domestic oil production? That a lower corporate tax rate will promote gdp growth? That overturning the Chevron doctine was a positive development? We should not have a single payer healthcare system?

Those are all right wing views and I'm pretty sure anyone can say them at any time. So it seems people can espouse right wing views.

Unless there are particular views you are referring to?

Again, you'd have to ask those who feel they were unfairly moderated or that there a blind eye turned, there are several in the thread.

Last edited by curl-6 - 1 day ago

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curl-6 said:
JWeinCom said:

So then there would be more of it?

No that doesn't answer the question. Politically correct is a meaningless buzz word.

As for right wing views what do you mean? That tariffs should be used to spur domestic production? That we should not implement a global minimum tax? That we should increase domestic oil production? That a lower corporate tax rate will promote gdp growth? That overturning the Chevron doctine was a positive development? We should not have a single payer healthcare system?

Those are all right wing views and I'm pretty sure anyone can say them at any time. So it seems people can espouse right wing views.

Unless there are particular views you are referring to?

Again, you'd have to ask those who feel they were unfairly moderated or that there a blind eye turned, there are several in the thread.

So... you don't know what it is... but you know it shouldn't be restricted?

I mean we had examples in the threads of posts people were banned for. Which do you support dude?



JWeinCom said:
curl-6 said:

Again, you'd have to ask those who feel they were unfairly moderated or that there a blind eye turned, there are several in the thread.

So... you don't know what it is... but you know it shouldn't be restricted?

I've stated my position multiple times, but if you're going to play the "I'll pretend not to understand" game and argue in bad faith, then I'll simply have to add you to the ignore list.



curl-6 said:
JWeinCom said:

So... you don't know what it is... but you know it shouldn't be restricted?

I've stated my position multiple times, but if you're going to play the "I'll pretend not to understand" game and argue in bad faith, then I'll simply have to add you to the ignore list.

Lol. Bad faith. You made a topic about this alleged problem. You said content should be less restricted. Then you won't say which content you're actually talking about. As has been established already, I don't read minds. So, no, I don't know what content you would like to not be restricted. You on the other hand, should know exactly what you mean. Yet I'm acting in bad faith? 

But, since you won't tell me, this is what I think. That when you say "right wing" or "political" you don't really mean that. After all, there are all kinds of political issues, such as the ones I mentioned, that you are free to proudly champion. Even some of the more controversial ones like championing unrestricted gun access or saying the 2020 election was stolen probably wouldn't get you banned (at least it didn't when I was last active in politics). To my knowledge, you can even be an antivaxxer, and the mods aren't going to ban you. Pretty sure you could say Trump is the greatest president ever and nobody is going to ban you. So it's not all right wing views. Not even controversial ones. Only a few.

Which ones? Well, I'm pretty sure I understand the quiet part you don't want to say out loud, but I was giving you a chance to actually define what you meant instead of putting words in your mouth. But, since you don't want to clarify...

The views that get bans, that you apparently think should not, are the ones that demonize a particular group of people. Especially gay people, women, and trans people. But nobody wants to say "I should be allowed to shit on trans people" or "gay people shouldn't be represented in games" so they go to "oh well it's because it's a right wing view". But that's not the issue. The issue is that they are hateful. If those hateful views are also right wing views... well, I'll leave that to the right wingers to grapple with. 

And, inevitably, when you ask the people who complain about cancel culture, wokeness, political correctness, or whatever new buzz word they want to coin about what it actually is they wish they could say, you get the evasive tapdancing you did. They won't say it out loud because what they want is for it to be ok to shit on certain groups of people.

But, by all means, add me to the ignore list. Because, apparently, if you subscribe to the site, you shouldn't have to be subject to such horrible things as *check notes* being asked which content you think should not be restricted after saying content should not be restricted in a thread you made about how content should not be restricted.

And that's the thing that we keep seeing in this thread. The very people pretending to champion free speech get awfully upset when people do the mildest mildest things to them. When people don't inherently believe everything they say. When people say that they are derailing a thread in a gaming forum. My oh my do they clutch those pearls. As always, the fuck your feelings crowd gets in their feels the fastest. 

So, hey, you have the ignore button, so use it. I just ask two things.

First of all, don't reply to me first. Because it would be really weasely to say anything to someone who can't talk back. I think it's only fair.

Second. If being pushed to defend your position is enough to make you reach for your own personal ban button, imagine how you might feel if you're a trans person who comes to talk about a game and has to hear about how people like you are delusional and people like you being shown in a game is part of an evil woke agenda. Imagine being a woman who has to come into a topic and hear about how gaming is for men and therefore developers should only include women in games if they are apporpriately fuckable. Imagine being a gay person who has to hear about people like you being game developers is ruining the industry. If you deserve to be free from content you feel is in bad faith or antagonistic, perhaps they deserve that too ^_^.

Last edited by JWeinCom - 23 hours ago

JWeinCom said:
curl-6 said:

I've stated my position multiple times, but if you're going to play the "I'll pretend not to understand" game and argue in bad faith, then I'll simply have to add you to the ignore list.

Lol. Bad faith. You made a topic about this alleged problem. You said content should be less restricted. Then you won't say which content you're actually talking about. As has been established already, I don't read minds. So, no, I don't know what content you would like to not be restricted. You on the other hand, should know exactly what you mean. Yet I'm acting in bad faith? 

But, since you won't tell me, this is what I think. That when you say "right wing" or "political" you don't really mean that. After all, there are all kinds of political issues, such as the ones I mentioned, that you are free to proudly champion. Even some of the more controversial ones like championing unrestricted gun access or saying the 2020 election was stolen probably wouldn't get you banned (at least it didn't when I was last active in politics). To my knowledge, you can even be an antivaxxer, and the mods aren't going to ban you. Pretty sure you could say Trump is the greatest president ever and nobody is going to ban you. So it's not all right wing views. Not even controversial ones. Only a few.

Which ones? Well, I'm pretty sure I understand the quiet part you don't want to say out loud, but I was giving you a chance to actually define what you meant instead of putting words in your mouth. But, since you don't want to clarify...

The views that get bans, that you apparently think should not, are the ones that demonize a particular group of people. Especially gay people, women, and trans people. But nobody wants to say "I should be allowed to shit on trans people" or "gay people shouldn't be represented in games" so they go to "oh well it's because it's a right wing view". But that's not the issue. The issue is that they are hateful. If those hateful views are also right wing views... well, I'll leave that to the right wingers to grapple with. 

And, inevitably, when you ask the people who complain about cancel culture, wokeness, political correctness, or whatever new buzz word they want to coin about what it actually is they wish they could say, you get the evasive tapdancing you did. They won't say it out loud because what they want is for it to be ok to shit on certain groups of people.

But, by all means, add me to the ignore list. Because, apparently, if you subscribe to the site, you shouldn't have to be subject to such horrible things as *check notes* being asked which content you think should not be restricted after saying content should not be restricted in a thread you made about how content should not be restricted.

And that's the thing that we keep seeing in this thread. The very people pretending to champion free speech get awfully upset when people do the mildest mildest things to them. When people don't inherently believe everything they say. When people say that they are derailing a thread in a gaming forum. My oh my do they clutch those pearls. As always, the fuck your feelings crowd gets in their feels the fastest. 

So, hey, you have the ignore button, so use it. I just ask two things.

First of all, don't reply to me first. Because it would be really weasely to say anything to someone who can't talk back. I think it's only fair.

Second. If being pushed to defend your position is enough to make you reach for your own personal ban button, imagine how you might feel if you're a trans person who comes to talk about a game and has to hear about how people like you are delusional and people like you being shown in a game is part of an evil woke agenda. Imagine being a woman who has to come into a topic and hear about how gaming is for men and therefore developers should only include women in games if they are apporpriately fuckable. Imagine being a gay person who has to hear about people like you being game developers is ruining the industry. If you deserve to be free from content you feel is in bad faith or antagonistic, perhaps they deserve that too ^_^.

I'll respond to your previous quote of me when I get home. But I just wanted to say this...

A mod just came into the thread and said we can't give examples. So don't go grilling Curl for examples, when you know full well if Curl gave examples he would risk a ban. 

Also the problem isn't that people want to be able to say racist/sexist/transphobic things. The problem is that certain mods have decided on their own what is racist/sexist/transphobic. And those mods are wrong in their decisions. 

Just to repeat my hypothetical example (because real examples aren't allowed)...

If someone says that Rap isn't music (it is), they would be banned for being racist, because some overzealous mod has decided on his own that any criticism of rap music is just a dog whistle or thinly veiled racism or whatever. 



curl-6 said:

Lest this be purposefully misinterpreted as a push for solely right-wing speech, I also strongly believe that say Captainexplosion, who I am pretty sure is not right-wing, should be allowed to be loudly anti-AI.

If multiple left-leaning posters were telling me they didn't want to use VGChartz any more because they felt marginalised here, I would object to that just the same.

You can't have a healthy forum, or indeed a society, without balance. 

Captain can be anti AI, and loud.  Just like Leynos can be anti conservative and loud. 

But calls to violence are WRONG regardless of who and why.

"Kill Republicans"

"We need more luigis"

"I want to blow up data centers"

ALL CALLS FOR VIOLENCE.  



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