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Forums - Sony - The logistcal issue with physical PS games post 2027

xl-klaudkil said:
CosmicSex said:

You didn't answer my question at all.  You just stated more untruths, warped the reality of the situation, and took personal digs at me.   You aren't trying to have a conversation with me.  You act like we are in competition with each other which is weird.  You claim that digital codes should be redeemable elsewhere which doesn't make any sense and doesn't work that way for any other platform.   Its not a monopoly because they are allowing retailers the chance to sell codes.  You have a predetermined way you want words to be understood even though they are conuter to their meaining. 

The only accurate thing you state is that there is a worry that digital good will be useless when a storefront closes which is real and not unique to any one platform at all.  Like imagine Spotify were to shut down?  Right now, there are no checkins for digital PlayStation games but the caveat is that the device can't have its CMOS reset.  But we can't just have rampent piracy of games on consoles either because developers deserve to be paid for their work.  Its a balancing act for sure. 

I don't pity myself at all.  That is your cross to bare.  I just want digital rights that extend beyond the actual closure of a store front.  This would require legislation I think because it applys to so many different companies and industries.  

I already answered it, calling it untruths wont age well for you, i wonder when we see 90 or 100 euro games if you will come out and say you where wrong, just for one example.

We can all see your verry anti physical for some weird reason and super pro sony even thou they fugking you over each and every time.

Physical is not dead not even close, why are physical games so bad on ps4/5 but is selling hundrends of millions on switch/2.

If they dont make them physical theh cant sell it physical.

I never said game prices wont increase.  You are having a fight with me in your head over something I never said.  My response about game prices was a cheeky way of saying game prices are already headed in that direction. 

I am not antiphysical, I am basically all physical on the Switch 2 and all digital on the PS5.  The reason why I have those purchasing patterns (and the reason why I think Nintendo has a greater volume of physical sales than Sony) is simply because storage on the Switch comes at a premium.  Storage on the Playstation is 4x that of the Switch (8x if you have a Pro like me).  Truth is, if Switch shipped with meaningful storage space I would lean towards digital on that platform too as I find it more convient and minimalistic.  

Its just practicallity, not 'hate of physical' lol.  

I don't have this deep seeded hatred of any of these companies.  They all fustrate me from time to time, but this childish overly dramtic love and hate of a corporations isn't something I indulge in.  I have stated multiple times that people who REALLY care about this industry want as many players to find success as possible.  I don't feel 'fucked' over at all.  Like most folks, I am all digital on PlayStation.  Also, I'm a little selfish because I want my media to work regardless of form factor.  So, me knowing that a handheld is coming means I don't want PlayStation discs.  I want to make 1 purchase and thats it. 

I would like to point out that the Switch 2 was NOT BC with Wii and Wii U.  One of the reasons BC wasn't practical is because Nintendo was NOT gonna put a disc drive in a device that needed to double as a handheld.  The Switch sold very well.  This is what I see happening now on PlayStation.  They keep saying that they are exploring new forms of play beyond the living room.  To me, given the sales data and the statements, and given what other companies had to do when going to handheld in reference to disc support, I think it makes perfect sense that they would want to stop shipping discs.  A confluence of factors.  The handheld factor is why I started this thread.  We are freaking adults.  We can have nuanced conversations and explore things from different angles. 

Please don't think ill of me if I have different viewpoint from you.  The best part about this thread is that I couldn't figure out by myself how Sony would support both devices (handheld and a console) at the same time with the exact same software in two different formats... and there were several well thought out proposals by people responding in the thread. Even if you don't agree, can you say that you at least understand where I am coming from?



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CosmicSex said:
xl-klaudkil said:

Right now, there are no checkins for digital PlayStation games but the caveat is that the device can't have its CMOS reset.  But we can't just have rampent piracy of games on consoles either because developers deserve to be paid for their work.  Its a balancing act for sure. 

This is false. All current digital content has a 30-day check-in currently since the latest Update. Check for yourself if you don't believe it.



Helloplite said:
CosmicSex said:

Right now, there are no checkins for digital PlayStation games but the caveat is that the device can't have its CMOS reset.  But we can't just have rampent piracy of games on consoles either because developers deserve to be paid for their work.  Its a balancing act for sure. 

This is false. All current digital content has a 30-day check-in currently since the latest Update. Check for yourself if you don't believe it.

I checked.  You are incorrect.  Im sorry are you joking/trolling because Im a little slow i may have missed it lol.



CosmicSex said:
Helloplite said:

This is false. All current digital content has a 30-day check-in currently since the latest Update. Check for yourself if you don't believe it.

I checked.  You are incorrect.  Im sorry are you joking/trolling because Im a little slow i may have missed it lol.

My ps3 has been offline for years and my digital (bought) content still works. I am with you on this one at least no 30days checks.



 

My youtube gaming page.

http://www.youtube.com/user/klaudkil

CosmicSex said:
xl-klaudkil said:

Excuses excuses excuses!
Sony wants monopoly(and third parties)
They want to increase game prices(mark my words ps6 games be 90- 100 dollars)
They want to have less meaningfull sale's
They want 100% of the money
They want to take away your game whenever they please( ow boy this is 100% going to happen to many games)
They want nobody to buy second hand games
They want NO compition with games also being physical.
FUCK the gamers they are milking cows is what sony thinks.

Responses:
Sony wants monopoly(and third parties)  A monopoly of what?
They want to increase game prices(mark my words ps6 games be 90- 100 dollars) They got to catch up to Nintendo and Rockstar first
They want to have less meaningfull sale's This is utter BS. Companies have sales to move stock that isn't moving.  They rather get a smaller cut than no sale.
They want 100% of the money I'm sure they do want 100% of the money like every company, but if they return to selling digital at retailers, the store will get a cut.
They want to take away your game whenever they please( ow boy this is 100% going to happen to many games) Why would they want to do this?
They want nobody to buy second hand games Agreed, because they are cut of of the sale. 
They want NO compition with games also being physical. I'm sure they do prefer digital sales for sure.  I'm not sure what you mean by competition though.
FUCK the gamers they are milking cows is what sony thinks. You are a drama queen.  These people aren't cartoonishly evil like you suggest.  Its standard fair for how corporations operate which is another subject in and of itself. 

A monopoly over the distribution of their games.  

If Sony is the only place to get access to a game, Sony then holds a monopoly on that access.  No secondary market.  No electronics stores.  Just Sony.  

Companies have sales to move stock that isn’t moving, but digital games aren’t stock. Sony doesn’t need to lower prices to sell digital games in the way that physical retailers need to lower prices to move stock to clear space.  Sony’s digital storefront will never be faced with the same urgency to move stock, which means prices will inevitably trend upwards for bargain hunters.  The ecosystem is closed when Sony has a monopoly to access their games.

With closed ecosystem, Sony can do whatever they want, because they will no longer be in the business of selling games, but selling access.  The price of that access can only go up (if Sony wanted to lower prices, they would not have raised them so many times), the amount of access that is sold can only go down.  Discs are forever, permission is temporary.  When Sony alters the terms of service, gamers can only pray that Sony doesn’t alter them further.

Perhaps consumers will switch to Microsoft, or Nintendo, but if Sony’s business practices are standard fare and the other corporations operate the same way, then the consumer’s situation has not improved or even changed in a meaningful way.  

Digital games are a great option.  They are very convenient and have undeniable advantages.  But when digital games are compulsory and a corporation holds a monopoly over access to those games…the advantages diminish.



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ConsoleWarVet said:
CosmicSex said:

Responses:
Sony wants monopoly(and third parties)  A monopoly of what?
They want to increase game prices(mark my words ps6 games be 90- 100 dollars) They got to catch up to Nintendo and Rockstar first
They want to have less meaningfull sale's This is utter BS. Companies have sales to move stock that isn't moving.  They rather get a smaller cut than no sale.
They want 100% of the money I'm sure they do want 100% of the money like every company, but if they return to selling digital at retailers, the store will get a cut.
They want to take away your game whenever they please( ow boy this is 100% going to happen to many games) Why would they want to do this?
They want nobody to buy second hand games Agreed, because they are cut of of the sale. 
They want NO compition with games also being physical. I'm sure they do prefer digital sales for sure.  I'm not sure what you mean by competition though.
FUCK the gamers they are milking cows is what sony thinks. You are a drama queen.  These people aren't cartoonishly evil like you suggest.  Its standard fair for how corporations operate which is another subject in and of itself. 

A monopoly over the distribution of their games.  

If Sony is the only place to get access to a game, Sony then holds a monopoly on that access.  No secondary market.  No electronics stores.  Just Sony.  

Companies have sales to move stock that isn’t moving, but digital games aren’t stock. Sony doesn’t need to lower prices to sell digital games in the way that physical retailers need to lower prices to move stock to clear space.  Sony’s digital storefront will never be faced with the same urgency to move stock, which means prices will inevitably trend upwards for bargain hunters.  The ecosystem is closed when Sony has a monopoly to access their games.

With closed ecosystem, Sony can do whatever they want, because they will no longer be in the business of selling games, but selling access.  The price of that access can only go up (if Sony wanted to lower prices, they would not have raised them so many times), the amount of access that is sold can only go down.  Discs are forever, permission is temporary.  When Sony alters the terms of service, gamers can only pray that Sony doesn’t alter them further.

Perhaps consumers will switch to Microsoft, or Nintendo, but if Sony’s business practices are standard fare and the other corporations operate the same way, then the consumer’s situation has not improved or even changed in a meaningful way.  

Digital games are a great option.  They are very convenient and have undeniable advantages.  But when digital games are compulsory and a corporation holds a monopoly over access to those games…the advantages diminish.

That is incorrect.  They said in that statement that after January 2028, they will sales digital codes at retailers (code in box). This is the opposite of what you stated. This is actually a good thing because right now, we can only by digital through PSN.  It wasn't always this way.  So they are going back to allowing retailers to sale digital games which means we finally have digital competition again.    This plan was later reiterated by the CFO at the earnings call. "Following this date, new games will be available on PlayStation Store and at retailers in digital formats only."  Now I would like to see an option that would allow you to resale those games you get from retailers.  That is a valid concern.  You should be able to get the box to someone else and they should be able to then use the code or trade it in.  But it is incorrect to say that you HAVE to get game from them directly.  That is factually incorrect. 



xl-klaudkil said:
CosmicSex said:

I checked.  You are incorrect.  Im sorry are you joking/trolling because Im a little slow i may have missed it lol.

My ps3 has been offline for years and my digital (bought) content still works. I am with you on this one at least no 30days checks.

There is in fact a server check right now, dunno if it affects PS3, PSP or PSV, but it does affect PS4 and PS5.

But it's for a period of 30 days after the purchase of digital content, not every 30 days.

Buy a digital game on PS4 or PS5 today, deny access to internet for that system from and you'll not be able to play said game in the 31rd day after that purchase anymore.

You need to have internet connect, once, between day 15 and 30 after the purchase, otherwise the game becomes unplayable after that period.

You get a temporary 30 days license when you make the purchase. That license starts looking for a check from Sony servers after 14 days pass.

No matter how many times the system connect to the internet for 14 days, no checks will update the license status, but after 14 days it'll be looking for a one time only server check, if it connects to the internet once, no matter when, and it reaches the server, that license is replaced by a permanent license. (Probably wouldn't work during a PSN outage, even if the system does have internet).

At that point the system can remain offline forever and it'll always work. But it expires after the 30 days period otherwise. If you then connect to the internet once, even after it expired after the 30 days, it'll still update the license to its permanent status.

Unless things changed very recently again, that is how I understand they changed their policy to avoid chargebacks aimed at fooling their support chat, so that's why it doesn't update for the first 14 days.



BraLoD said:
xl-klaudkil said:

My ps3 has been offline for years and my digital (bought) content still works. I am with you on this one at least no 30days checks.

There is in fact a server check right now, dunno if it affects PS3, PSP or PSV, but it does affect PS4 and PS5.

But it's for a period of 30 days after the purchase of digital content, not every 30 days.

Buy a digital game on PS4 or PS5 today, deny access to internet for that system from and you'll not be able to play said game in the 31rd day after that purchase anymore.

You need to have internet connect, once, between day 15 and 30 after the purchase, otherwise the game becomes unplayable after that period.

You get a temporary 30 days license when you make the purchase. That license starts looking for a check from Sony servers after 14 days pass.

No matter how many times the system connect to the internet for 14 days, no checks will update the license status, but after 14 days it'll be looking for a one time only server check, if it connects to the internet once, no matter when, and it reaches the server, that license is replaced by a permanent license. (Probably wouldn't work during a PSN outage, even if the system does have internet).

At that point the system can remain offline forever and it'll always work. But it expires after the 30 days period otherwise. If you then connect to the internet once, even after it expired after the 30 days, it'll still update the license to its permanent status.

Unless things changed very recently again, that is how I understand they changed their policy to avoid chargebacks aimed at fooling their support chat, so that's why it doesn't update for the first 14 days.

What the actuall FUCK is that for crap, so glad i dont buy digital anymore.



 

My youtube gaming page.

http://www.youtube.com/user/klaudkil

CosmicSex said:
ConsoleWarVet said:

A monopoly over the distribution of their games.  

If Sony is the only place to get access to a game, Sony then holds a monopoly on that access.  No secondary market.  No electronics stores.  Just Sony.  

Companies have sales to move stock that isn’t moving, but digital games aren’t stock. Sony doesn’t need to lower prices to sell digital games in the way that physical retailers need to lower prices to move stock to clear space.  Sony’s digital storefront will never be faced with the same urgency to move stock, which means prices will inevitably trend upwards for bargain hunters.  The ecosystem is closed when Sony has a monopoly to access their games.

With closed ecosystem, Sony can do whatever they want, because they will no longer be in the business of selling games, but selling access.  The price of that access can only go up (if Sony wanted to lower prices, they would not have raised them so many times), the amount of access that is sold can only go down.  Discs are forever, permission is temporary.  When Sony alters the terms of service, gamers can only pray that Sony doesn’t alter them further.

Perhaps consumers will switch to Microsoft, or Nintendo, but if Sony’s business practices are standard fare and the other corporations operate the same way, then the consumer’s situation has not improved or even changed in a meaningful way.  

Digital games are a great option.  They are very convenient and have undeniable advantages.  But when digital games are compulsory and a corporation holds a monopoly over access to those games…the advantages diminish.

That is incorrect.  They said in that statement that after January 2028, they will sales digital codes at retailers (code in box). This is the opposite of what you stated. This is actually a good thing because right now, we can only by digital through PSN.  It wasn't always this way.  So they are going back to allowing retailers to sale digital games which means we finally have digital competition again.    This plan was later reiterated by the CFO at the earnings call. "Following this date, new games will be available on PlayStation Store and at retailers in digital formats only."  Now I would like to see an option that would allow you to resale those games you get from retailers.  That is a valid concern.  You should be able to get the box to someone else and they should be able to then use the code or trade it in.  But it is incorrect to say that you HAVE to get game from them directly.  That is factually incorrect. 

That is not the opposite of what I said. 

First, I note that you do not disagree that the secondary market has been cut out of the equation.  that is what creates the conditions for a monopoly on access.

Second, if you buy a digital code from a store, you are not buying a game.  You are buying a code for access to a game, and you still have to go through Sony to get it.  The same can’t be said about picking up an actual game from a pawn shop.  

Sony wants to deny the option of buying a game at a store.  Putting a code in a box is window dressing; codes don’t need boxes.  I’ve seen my share of game codes on glorified gift cards.  And I’ve seen some cards get discontinued, so the ball is entirely in Sony’s court what becomes of those cards down the road.

That’s what makes it a monopoly.  

Finally, I never said you “HAVE” to get a game from Sony directly.  You took the time to place some bold on the font saying “IF Sony…”.  Sony can choose to allow indirect access to their games, but they will have the option to limit that to direct access at any time.

If Sony has that option, Sony already has a monopoly on access.  Digital codes at retailers is just how Sony is deciding to display that monopoly.



xl-klaudkil said:
BraLoD said:

There is in fact a server check right now, dunno if it affects PS3, PSP or PSV, but it does affect PS4 and PS5.

But it's for a period of 30 days after the purchase of digital content, not every 30 days.

Buy a digital game on PS4 or PS5 today, deny access to internet for that system from and you'll not be able to play said game in the 31rd day after that purchase anymore.

You need to have internet connect, once, between day 15 and 30 after the purchase, otherwise the game becomes unplayable after that period.

You get a temporary 30 days license when you make the purchase. That license starts looking for a check from Sony servers after 14 days pass.

No matter how many times the system connect to the internet for 14 days, no checks will update the license status, but after 14 days it'll be looking for a one time only server check, if it connects to the internet once, no matter when, and it reaches the server, that license is replaced by a permanent license. (Probably wouldn't work during a PSN outage, even if the system does have internet).

At that point the system can remain offline forever and it'll always work. But it expires after the 30 days period otherwise. If you then connect to the internet once, even after it expired after the 30 days, it'll still update the license to its permanent status.

Unless things changed very recently again, that is how I understand they changed their policy to avoid chargebacks aimed at fooling their support chat, so that's why it doesn't update for the first 14 days.

What the actuall FUCK is that for crap, so glad i dont buy digital anymore.

Some people were able to refund a digital game through the support chat and keep the permanent license active in the system somehow (probably on hacked PS4s) so they were using it as a way to get free legal digital games (to probably sell that account later because why not keep the pirated games if you have a jailbroken console...) and that's how Sony stupidly solved that problem on their end, but created this problem for everyone else.

They did it without reporting to customers too, once people found out they got mad and eventually Sony commented on it, it happened early this year, actually.

I still believe they should be legally pressed into having this info displayed to people in every single purchase in their store, but we got even worse problems nowdays so nobody is pushing for that anymore.