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Forums - Sales - Would You Consider Nintendo Switch The Most Commercially Successful Gaming Hardware Of All Time?

bdbdbd said:
Chrkeller said:

Fair points, though I would argue the ps2 popularized gaming, which is how the market got to where it is today.  I am not a historian, but I recall many people, who weren't traditional gamers, grabbing a ps2.  It really turned gaming from niche to actual legit mass market.

During the ps2 eras there were a lot of questions about if Nintendo was sustainable as first party in the home market.  The trend from SNES, N64 to GC was not good.  Nintendo deserves credit for turning the ship around.  But the main point, the ps2 was so dominant people were wondering if the competition would survive long term.  This didn't happen with the S1, the competition is doing incredibly well.  

Well, early on many people who weren't gamers bought PS2 as a cheap DVD-player, but when we go back to 80's, basically everyone played games. The difference is, that the people who were in their 20's in early 80's, are in their 60's and 70's today. Basically the whole 90's was pushing games for boys and young men and away from the family entertainment it was prior to that. 

I hear that claim, a lot, but have never seen substantial evidence.

Makes me wonder how real said claim is, versus being a myth.

Selling more in a year than the competition sold lifetime is the very definition of success.  It is like the Dolphins going undefeated and taking the SB.



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Switch 2

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Chrkeller said:
bdbdbd said:

Well, early on many people who weren't gamers bought PS2 as a cheap DVD-player, but when we go back to 80's, basically everyone played games. The difference is, that the people who were in their 20's in early 80's, are in their 60's and 70's today. Basically the whole 90's was pushing games for boys and young men and away from the family entertainment it was prior to that. 

I hear that claim, a lot, but have never seen substantial evidence.

Makes me wonder how real said claim is, versus being a myth.

Selling more in a year than the competition sold lifetime is the very definition of success.  It is like the Dolphins going undefeated and taking the SB.


It’s basically a debunked myth, especially in the USA where you get cheap DVD players for like $100 the year the PS2 released. It’s one of those statements you’ll find everywhere on the internet now and you’ll never be able to convince anyone it’s not true. Like Concord costing $400m. The biggest problem now is that even search engines will confirm these falsehoods because they just scan articles for answers and tons of articles report these baseless claims because it generates clicks. More clicks equals higher priority for search engines and AI. Welcome to the future, where truth will no longer exists. It’s Goebbels world now, we’re all just living in it.



Chrkeller said:
bdbdbd said:

Well, early on many people who weren't gamers bought PS2 as a cheap DVD-player, but when we go back to 80's, basically everyone played games. The difference is, that the people who were in their 20's in early 80's, are in their 60's and 70's today. Basically the whole 90's was pushing games for boys and young men and away from the family entertainment it was prior to that. 

I hear that claim, a lot, but have never seen substantial evidence.

Makes me wonder how real said claim is, versus being a myth.

Selling more in a year than the competition sold lifetime is the very definition of success.  It is like the Dolphins going undefeated and taking the SB.

Because it was what people observed happening around them. After the prices of standalone players went down, people bought them and the PS2s went to the kids' room. Playstation 2 had sold a lot better early on if they had made more of them. 



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

bdbdbd said:
Chrkeller said:

I hear that claim, a lot, but have never seen substantial evidence.

Makes me wonder how real said claim is, versus being a myth.

Selling more in a year than the competition sold lifetime is the very definition of success.  It is like the Dolphins going undefeated and taking the SB.

Because it was what people observed happening around them. After the prices of standalone players went down, people bought them and the PS2s went to the kids' room. Playstation 2 had sold a lot better early on if they had made more of them. 

What is The Mandela Effect? (63 Interesting Examples)



rtx 4090, 32 gb ram, i7-13700k

Switch 2

DekutheEvilClown said:
Chrkeller said:

I hear that claim, a lot, but have never seen substantial evidence.

Makes me wonder how real said claim is, versus being a myth.

Selling more in a year than the competition sold lifetime is the very definition of success.  It is like the Dolphins going undefeated and taking the SB.


It’s basically a debunked myth, especially in the USA where you get cheap DVD players for like $100 the year the PS2 released. It’s one of those statements you’ll find everywhere on the internet now and you’ll never be able to convince anyone it’s not true. Like Concord costing $400m. The biggest problem now is that even search engines will confirm these falsehoods because they just scan articles for answers and tons of articles report these baseless claims because it generates clicks. More clicks equals higher priority for search engines and AI. Welcome to the future, where truth will no longer exists. It’s Goebbels world now, we’re all just living in it.

My background is science, and I happily accept data, but in this case, I see a lot of people making claims, but never once saw data.  I personally do not know a single person who bought a ps2 as a DVD player.  I know people who bought a ps2 and used it as a DVD player, but those things are not the same.  



rtx 4090, 32 gb ram, i7-13700k

Switch 2

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Chrkeller said:
DekutheEvilClown said:


It’s basically a debunked myth, especially in the USA where you get cheap DVD players for like $100 the year the PS2 released. It’s one of those statements you’ll find everywhere on the internet now and you’ll never be able to convince anyone it’s not true. Like Concord costing $400m. The biggest problem now is that even search engines will confirm these falsehoods because they just scan articles for answers and tons of articles report these baseless claims because it generates clicks. More clicks equals higher priority for search engines and AI. Welcome to the future, where truth will no longer exists. It’s Goebbels world now, we’re all just living in it.

My background is science, and I happily accept data, but in this case, I see a lot of people making claims, but never once saw data.  I personally do not know a single person who bought a ps2 as a DVD player.  I know people who bought a ps2 and used it as a DVD player, but those things are not the same.  


Here’s an article about how DVD players cost $100 at discount retailers in 2000, when the PS2 launched at $300

https://expertbeacon.com/how-much-was-a-dvd-player-in-2000/#google_vignette


12 months later, and  budget DVD players were $50 and even brand ones were half the price of a PS2. Here’s a forum discussion from 2001 discussing buying DVD players that quotes Pioneer, Sony and Toshiba standalone players for $150.

https://arstechnica.com/civis/threads/ps2-or-200-dvd-player-to-watch-dvds.897634/

Even in Europe where it is generally thought DVD players took longer to decrease in price they were available in the UK for sub-£200 in mid-2000, half a year before the PS2 Launched at £300. Here’s an image from what What Hi-Fi magazine July 2000 that lists Ariston, Bush, and Wharfsdale Standalone DVD players at £170-180. This is half a year before the PS2 release would help drive down DVD prices. 
https://www.whathifi.com/features/when-dvd-was-home-cinema-heaven-how-could-we-have-imagined-what-was-to-come


So, in 1999 DVD players were still very expensive, and it’s within the realm of possibility that some people bought a PS2 a year later for DVDs while thinking DVD players still cost that much. We’re talking very small numbers though, especially compared to all the people who will come out of the woodwork with the old “lol, my grandma/uncle bought a PS2 to play DVDs and never played a game in their life” 

The PS2 also has an extraordinarily high tie-ratio for software at that time, which further makes the idea of a bunch of them sitting around not playing games seem even more iffy.



DekutheEvilClown said:
Chrkeller said:

My background is science, and I happily accept data, but in this case, I see a lot of people making claims, but never once saw data.  I personally do not know a single person who bought a ps2 as a DVD player.  I know people who bought a ps2 and used it as a DVD player, but those things are not the same.  


Here’s an article about how DVD players cost $100 at discount retailers in 2000, when the PS2 launched at $300

https://expertbeacon.com/how-much-was-a-dvd-player-in-2000/#google_vignette


12 months later, and  budget DVD players were $50 and even brand ones were half the price of a PS2. Here’s a forum discussion from 2001 discussing buying DVD players that quotes Pioneer, Sony and Toshiba standalone players for $150.

https://arstechnica.com/civis/threads/ps2-or-200-dvd-player-to-watch-dvds.897634/

Even in Europe where it is generally thought DVD players took longer to decrease in price they were available in the UK for sub-£200 in mid-2000, half a year before the PS2 Launched at £300. Here’s an image from what What Hi-Fi magazine July 2020 that lists Ariston, Bush, and Wharfsdale Standalone DVD players at £170-180. This is half a year before the PS2 release would help drive down DVD prices. 
https://www.whathifi.com/features/when-dvd-was-home-cinema-heaven-how-could-we-have-imagined-what-was-to-come


So, in 1999 DVD players were still very expensive, and it’s within the realm of possibility that some people bought a PS2 a year later for DVDs while thinking DVD players still cost that much. We’re talking very small numbers though, especially compared to all the people who will come out of the woodwork with the old “lol, my grandma/uncle bought a PS2 to play DVDs and never played a game in their life” 

The PS2 also has an extraordinarily high tie-ratio for software at that time, which further makes the idea of a bunch of them sitting around not playing games seem even more iffy.

that is my take...  the ps2 sold more software than any other system in history, even the S1 (despite the market being much larger)...   doesn't make sense that the ps2 was sold because of DVD, it clearly was a gaming system.  



rtx 4090, 32 gb ram, i7-13700k

Switch 2

Chrkeller said:
DekutheEvilClown said:


Here’s an article about how DVD players cost $100 at discount retailers in 2000, when the PS2 launched at $300

https://expertbeacon.com/how-much-was-a-dvd-player-in-2000/#google_vignette


12 months later, and  budget DVD players were $50 and even brand ones were half the price of a PS2. Here’s a forum discussion from 2001 discussing buying DVD players that quotes Pioneer, Sony and Toshiba standalone players for $150.

https://arstechnica.com/civis/threads/ps2-or-200-dvd-player-to-watch-dvds.897634/

Even in Europe where it is generally thought DVD players took longer to decrease in price they were available in the UK for sub-£200 in mid-2000, half a year before the PS2 Launched at £300. Here’s an image from what What Hi-Fi magazine July 2020 that lists Ariston, Bush, and Wharfsdale Standalone DVD players at £170-180. This is half a year before the PS2 release would help drive down DVD prices. 
https://www.whathifi.com/features/when-dvd-was-home-cinema-heaven-how-could-we-have-imagined-what-was-to-come


So, in 1999 DVD players were still very expensive, and it’s within the realm of possibility that some people bought a PS2 a year later for DVDs while thinking DVD players still cost that much. We’re talking very small numbers though, especially compared to all the people who will come out of the woodwork with the old “lol, my grandma/uncle bought a PS2 to play DVDs and never played a game in their life” 

The PS2 also has an extraordinarily high tie-ratio for software at that time, which further makes the idea of a bunch of them sitting around not playing games seem even more iffy.

that is my take...  the ps2 sold more software than any other system in history, even the S1 (despite the market being much larger)...   doesn't make sense that the ps2 was sold because of DVD, it clearly was a gaming system.  

PS4 and Switch 1 sold more software when digital and indies are accounted for (though I don't think PS2's software totals were updated since hardware was at 155 million~). But PS2's software sales were unheard of at the time, and it managed to sell that much despite the widesread piracy and the lack of a digital store. 

Switch is imprrssive, but it combined the markets of handheld and home consoles (Wii and DS sold 1.8 billion software combined). It basically has no direct competition in the handheld space, which gave it an edge against Playstation. It fundamentally covered a larger market.

The PS6 may be able to cover a larger market as well with the rumored home console + handheld approach. But it will be hindered by outrageous prices and stronger competition from PC and to an extent the Switch 2.



Kyuu said:

PS4 and Switch 1 sold more software when digital and indies are accounted for (though I don't think PS2's software totals were updated since hardware was at 155 million~). But PS2's software sales were unheard of at the time, and it managed to sell that much despite the widesread piracy and the lack of a digital store. 

Switch is imprrssive, but it combined the markets of handheld and home consoles (Wii and DS sold 1.8 billion software combined). It basically has no direct competition in the handheld space, which gave it an edge against Playstation. It fundamentally covered a larger market.

The PS6 may be able to cover a larger market as well with the rumored home console + handheld approach. But it will be hindered by outrageous prices and stronger competition from PC and to an extent the Switch 2.

The big difference between software figures of today and yesteryear is that back in the 2000s, you could easily find NIB fresh copies of games for $5-10USD a pop. Today such deals are unheard of, and prices are only going up.

That said, by this metric alone I’d argue Switch has the most impressive software figures of any system: Majority of software sold was first-party at full price, and yet, Switch maintains the highest software-to-hardware ratio of any Nintendo system (as well as the strong software figures overall, with an unprecedented number of full-price first party releases sitting as high at 71M). 



firebush03 said:
Kyuu said:

PS4 and Switch 1 sold more software when digital and indies are accounted for (though I don't think PS2's software totals were updated since hardware was at 155 million~). But PS2's software sales were unheard of at the time, and it managed to sell that much despite the widesread piracy and the lack of a digital store. 

Switch is imprrssive, but it combined the markets of handheld and home consoles (Wii and DS sold 1.8 billion software combined). It basically has no direct competition in the handheld space, which gave it an edge against Playstation. It fundamentally covered a larger market.

The PS6 may be able to cover a larger market as well with the rumored home console + handheld approach. But it will be hindered by outrageous prices and stronger competition from PC and to an extent the Switch 2.

The big difference between software figures of today and yesteryear is that back in the 2000s, you could easily find NIB fresh copies of games for $5-10USD a pop. Today such deals are unheard of, and prices are only going up.

That said, by this metric alone I’d argue Switch has the most impressive software figures of any system: Majority of software sold was first-party at full price, and yet, Switch maintains the highest software-to-hardware ratio of any Nintendo system (as well as the strong software figures overall, with an unprecedented number of full-price first party releases sitting as high at 71M). 

Software revenue on Playstation is a LOT higher. But their profit margins are a lot smaller because most of that revenue comes from 3rd party content (of which Sony makes 15%-30%). Sony's own software also used to average in the low $20's in the PS4 gen vs today's high $50's/low $60s.

Switch and PS2 are from very different eras and couldn't be more different. So the comparisons strike me as pointless.

No one questions that Nintendo's own software is much bigger than Sony's. But combined software spending (now that you mention "full price") on Nintendo's plafform isn't even comparable with current Playstation.