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Forums - Movies & TV - [Variety] Disney's Boy Trouble: Corp seeking ways to win back young men

Branko2166 said:

I would argue that the majority of men in particular consume films and video games as an avenue for escapism. Hitting them consistently over the head with overt politics defeats the purpose of watching said material.

That argument works right about until you remember that the 2019 Joker movie was such a big hit because it was so overtly political, and one of the biggest reasons why its sequel flopped so spectacularly was that it turned its back on the message the first one was seen to be pushing.



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Branko2166 said:
ArchangelMadzz said:

Disagree, overt politics is fine ie. Star Wars, ATLA, Superman 2025, etc. 

They're just pumping out uninteresting movies, and marvel fatigue really set in.

I would argue that the majority of men in particular consume films and video games as an avenue for escapism. Hitting them consistently over the head with overt politics defeats the purpose of watching said material. 

If I want someone's political opinion there are countless opinionated politicians and news to listen to.

I agree regarding the bad writing, but that is what happens when many of these writers are more concerned about their political virtue signalling instead of focusing on a compelling story and characters.

One simple antidote I would suggest is to reintroduce the hero's journey for characters instead of making them perfect and thus unrelatable. Audiences are more likely to connect with characters that struggle and grow over time which makes the payoff genuinely worthwhile. 

I still disagree man, plenty of amazing and highly regarded movies and tv series are absolutely bathed in politics, it's virtually impossible to separate politics and media.

I think although we disagree the root of what you're getting at is when you mix politics that you have mixed feelings about with awful writing it feels terrible. Which i agree, but to say to never include it basically doesn't allow art to be art. Everything is political.



There's only 2 races: White and 'Political Agenda'
2 Genders: Male and 'Political Agenda'
2 Hairstyles for female characters: Long and 'Political Agenda'
2 Sexualities: Straight and 'Political Agenda'

There's 37 MCU movies.

Thirty.

Seven.

Go fucking watching something else for crying out loud, lmao. There's like what? 20 DCU films to go with that in the same period?

I get Disney has an incentive to want it to go on forever ... it's not realistic that people wouldn't eventually start to get bored no matter what.

Studios needs to make movies for other audiences and prioritize them.



First step would be to rid all politics, social or otherwise, from their company. Let it be an artist-driven company, not a business one. If they would do these two things, you might see the return of their glory days.



JackHandy said:

First step would be to rid all politics, social or otherwise, from their company. Let it be an artist-driven company, not a business one. If they would do these two things, you might see the return of their glory days.

That’s never going to happen for two reasons. Firstly, the only way you’re going to completely remove politics from a work is by making it so that it isn’t actually about anything beyond the most dirt-simple “heroes take on the villain and win” story. Secondly, no matter how much you try to make a work apolitical, people will read politics into it anyway - case in point, George Lucas putting an extremely general point about how dictatorships get started into Revenge of the Sith, and people mistaking it for an attack on George W. Bush (or if you really want to go back, the whole debate over whether Biggs’ deleted introduction scene from A New Hope was meant to be an allegory for Vietnam draft dodgers).



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OlfinBedwere said:
JackHandy said:

First step would be to rid all politics, social or otherwise, from their company. Let it be an artist-driven company, not a business one. If they would do these two things, you might see the return of their glory days.

That’s never going to happen for two reasons. Firstly, the only way you’re going to completely remove politics from a work is by making it so that it isn’t actually about anything beyond the most dirt-simple “heroes take on the villain and win” story. Secondly, no matter how much you try to make a work apolitical, people will read politics into it anyway - case in point, George Lucas putting an extremely general point about how dictatorships get started into Revenge of the Sith, and people mistaking it for an attack on George W. Bush (or if you really want to go back, the whole debate over whether Biggs’ deleted introduction scene from A New Hope was meant to be an allegory for Vietnam draft dodgers).

There's zero chance you're referring to STAR WARS as apolitical??

The entire trilogy was inspired by the Vietnam war. George Lucas meant for Star Wars to be overtly political. He wanted it to be clear that empires, not only like that in Star Wars but also in his own words, the real life British and American Empire, were in the wrong. He literally said, "That was the whole point."



There's only 2 races: White and 'Political Agenda'
2 Genders: Male and 'Political Agenda'
2 Hairstyles for female characters: Long and 'Political Agenda'
2 Sexualities: Straight and 'Political Agenda'

OlfinBedwere said:
JackHandy said:

First step would be to rid all politics, social or otherwise, from their company. Let it be an artist-driven company, not a business one. If they would do these two things, you might see the return of their glory days.

That’s never going to happen for two reasons. Firstly, the only way you’re going to completely remove politics from a work is by making it so that it isn’t actually about anything beyond the most dirt-simple “heroes take on the villain and win” story. Secondly, no matter how much you try to make a work apolitical, people will read politics into it anyway - case in point, George Lucas putting an extremely general point about how dictatorships get started into Revenge of the Sith, and people mistaking it for an attack on George W. Bush (or if you really want to go back, the whole debate over whether Biggs’ deleted introduction scene from A New Hope was meant to be an allegory for Vietnam draft dodgers).

Whether there were politics in Disney's movies between Snow White and when Walt died, they were too buried underneath simple fairy-tales and too subtle for anyone to notice. And the same could be said for their revival period of Mermaid through The Lion King. Those two periods are considered the high marks of that company by the vast majority of people, a time when seeing a Disney movie was akin to magic... and there were zero overt politics to be found in any of their films. I do not think that is coincidental.



JackHandy said:
OlfinBedwere said:

That’s never going to happen for two reasons. Firstly, the only way you’re going to completely remove politics from a work is by making it so that it isn’t actually about anything beyond the most dirt-simple “heroes take on the villain and winâ€Â story. Secondly, no matter how much you try to make a work apolitical, people will read politics into it anyway - case in point, George Lucas putting an extremely general point about how dictatorships get started into Revenge of the Sith, and people mistaking it for an attack on George W. Bush (or if you really want to go back, the whole debate over whether Biggs’ deleted introduction scene from A New Hope was meant to be an allegory for Vietnam draft dodgers).

Whether there were politics in Disney's movies between Snow White and when Walt died, they were too buried underneath simple fairy-tales and too subtle for anyone to notice. And the same could be said for their revival period of Mermaid through The Lion King. Those two periods are considered the high marks of that company by the vast majority of people, a time when seeing a Disney movie was akin to magic... and there were zero overt politics to be found in any of their films. I do not think that is coincidental.

Beauty and the Beast certainly seems like it would rub a wrong nerve if released these days, but still considered one of the high marks. 

That's off the top of my head, I'll have to give some thought about if any of the other classics would be the same. 



...

ArchangelMadzz said:

There's zero chance you're referring to STAR WARS as apolitical??

The entire trilogy was inspired by the Vietnam war. George Lucas meant for Star Wars to be overtly political. He wanted it to be clear that empires, not only like that in Star Wars but also in his own words, the real life British and American Empire, were in the wrong. He literally said, "That was the whole point."

Well, I was referring specifically to Padme’s “This is how freedom dies, with thunderous applause” line from Revenge of the Sith, and how it was interpreted in the context of the political climate at the time. But yeah, Lucas in general put a lot of political and mythological stuff into his Star Wars movies and did a lot of research into it as well, which is why it always amuses me when people both in the Lucas purist and anti-Lucas camps try claiming that his Star Wars movies are just meant to be simple good vs. evil stories with no real subtext.

In terms of the whole “apolitical work still being taken as political” thing, a better example might be the third episode of the Doctor Who relaunch in 2005, which the writer intended purely as a tribute to the works of Charles Dickens, yet a bunch of people on the internet at the time somehow managed to interpret as an anti-immigration screed.



Torillian said:
JackHandy said:

Whether there were politics in Disney's movies between Snow White and when Walt died, they were too buried underneath simple fairy-tales and too subtle for anyone to notice. And the same could be said for their revival period of Mermaid through The Lion King. Those two periods are considered the high marks of that company by the vast majority of people, a time when seeing a Disney movie was akin to magic... and there were zero overt politics to be found in any of their films. I do not think that is coincidental.

Beauty and the Beast certainly seems like it would rub a wrong nerve if released these days, but still considered one of the high marks. 

That's off the top of my head, I'll have to give some thought about if any of the other classics would be the same. 

Now you'd see the furries at the movies :-01