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Forums - Movies & TV - [Variety] Disney's Boy Trouble: Corp seeking ways to win back young men

EricHiggin said:
Torillian said:

My recollection is that the reason women get the kids in the divorce most of the time is that men don't fight for it most of the time. If that's a factual disagreement I can try to look it up. 

I'm not saying that women are doing a better job at those roles. I'm saying that women view those roles as acceptable while men don't view women's roles as acceptable by and large. This leads me to think that most people view one role as superior to the other. In a free society I would prefer people get to do what they want over being assigned what they're best at. 

Lost me on the last paragraph. 

What if the men aren't fighting for it because that would be stupid and wrong from their perspective? What if they personally find woman to be better parents than men overall, so therefore fighting for the kids and winning, would be a worse outcome? What if they are sacrificing their wants for the good of society?

What if it's not due to superiority, but due to difficulty, ego, wages, peer pressure, societal pressure, family expectations, etc. There's a lot of reasons why people choose the roles they do. Not that many people truly do what they love, and it's sure not because society makes it impossible these days.

I would prefer society decide what they find more important, and indirectly push to have the best take those roles. The less important roles don't matter as much so focus much less on them and let whoever loosely qualifies take those roles.

I don't care if you love to do surgery, if I need it, and you're not very good at it, then I could care less that you love to do it. I'd much rather have someone who's known to be top notch, who's parents pushed them to do it, yet they don't really love their job. Same goes for say, anything aviation related. Your people love their jobs but your airline is always having minor or major problems? I'll pass, and choose the airline full of grumpy a**holes who don't enjoy the work itself, yet never seem to have any problems. In terms of less importance, if the fast food restaurant I'm at kinda sucks, then I'll just live with it, even if everyone there loves their job, because it's just fast food.

The last point of the last post was just saying there's no definitive right or wrong in this case. Everyone will see things differently and will prefer a different outcome.

What if taking care of kids after you both get home from work is hard and they're just lazy pieces of shit so they fall on societal norms that say women should do it?

Society decides what roles it values based on what it's willing to pay for it. This kind of goes against your idea that the roles are equal, though, because taking care of the home is not given any value under that system. 



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bdbdbd said:
Torillian said:

My recollection is that the reason women get the kids in the divorce most of the time is that men don't fight for it most of the time. If that's a factual disagreement I can try to look it up. 

I'm not saying that women are doing a better job at those roles. I'm saying that women view those roles as acceptable while men don't view women's roles as acceptable by and large. This leads me to think that most people view one role as superior to the other. In a free society I would prefer people get to do what they want over being assigned what they're best at. 

Actually "men don't fight most of the time" is because most men can't afford it. In the worst case scenario you end up worse than you would without fighting and on top of that you might end up paying tens of thousands in legal fees. I believe only Denmark have even remotedly fair system when it comes to divorce and kids custody and it has reduced the fights relating to kids and divorce by 80-90%, after it's implementation. This is because you need to settle the kids custody and other stuff before getting the divorce. The current system favours heavily women.

A lot of the complaints you see in public how women do this and that and men don't and don't get respect for it and so on, are stuff men don't have any problems with after they're divorced of have broke up. 

So men'll do all those annoying house chores when they can't get someone else to do it, but if a woman is in the home they'll assume they don't have to? What point do you think this is making?



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Torillian said:
bdbdbd said:

It is if you think so. What you're essentially trying to say is that choices women typically make are of less value than choices men typically make. Why do they have less value? Because women choose to do so? Did the value of doing the laundry rise when it was a men doing it? 

Women are choosing to be the support role for men less and less often now that they have the ability to not. And men are not choosing to take that role proportionally to how women are changing their roles. I take this to mean that most people view the roles as inequal and the man's role as superior. 

But it doesn't matter how others view it, it's all about how you yourself view it. If you want to stay at home taking care of the kids, what does it matter what your neighbour thinks. Or you go to work instead of college and getting a degree, or the other way around, what does it matter what someone else thinks of it.

Now, one might ask what is wrong with a society that doesn't respect perhaps the most important role anyone have in a society: raising it's new members who take care of the society's future. If you don't, the society dies. Especially today the the trend seems to be that (women) should get to choose whatever they like - except the "wrong" decisions by someone else.

Also, if one is a stay at home parent and the other goes to work to make it possible, the one who works respects the other's house work. 



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

bdbdbd said:
Torillian said:

Women are choosing to be the support role for men less and less often now that they have the ability to not. And men are not choosing to take that role proportionally to how women are changing their roles. I take this to mean that most people view the roles as inequal and the man's role as superior. 

But it doesn't matter how others view it, it's all about how you yourself view it. If you want to stay at home taking care of the kids, what does it matter what your neighbour thinks. Or you go to work instead of college and getting a degree, or the other way around, what does it matter what someone else thinks of it.

Now, one might ask what is wrong with a society that doesn't respect perhaps the most important role anyone have in a society: raising it's new members who take care of the society's future. If you don't, the society dies. Especially today the the trend seems to be that (women) should get to choose whatever they like - except the "wrong" decisions by someone else.

Also, if one is a stay at home parent and the other goes to work to make it possible, the one who works respects the other's house work. 

It's not about what others think about, I'm trying to get an idea by and large what the population thinks. Far as I can tell most people when given the choice don't want to be the stay at home parent dependent on the one who goes to work. Nothing has taken this option away from people, but now that women have other options they are taking this route less and less. 



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Torillian said:
bdbdbd said:

Actually "men don't fight most of the time" is because most men can't afford it. In the worst case scenario you end up worse than you would without fighting and on top of that you might end up paying tens of thousands in legal fees. I believe only Denmark have even remotedly fair system when it comes to divorce and kids custody and it has reduced the fights relating to kids and divorce by 80-90%, after it's implementation. This is because you need to settle the kids custody and other stuff before getting the divorce. The current system favours heavily women.

A lot of the complaints you see in public how women do this and that and men don't and don't get respect for it and so on, are stuff men don't have any problems with after they're divorced of have broke up. 

So men'll do all those annoying house chores when they can't get someone else to do it, but if a woman is in the home they'll assume they don't have to? What point do you think this is making?

No. Men do these chores, but most of the time it's not good enought for women. He does these these chores, but they're never good enough. Even if he did 2 hours of chores each day, she would still do an hour to fix what she thinks he did wrong complaining why does she always have to do all this stuff. Partially this is because of how women view relationships and mutual homes. And also about the different standards men and women have. Outsiders can't tell the difference if it was him or her who did the dishes or fixed their car. 



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

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bdbdbd said:
Torillian said:

So men'll do all those annoying house chores when they can't get someone else to do it, but if a woman is in the home they'll assume they don't have to? What point do you think this is making?

No. Men do these chores, but most of the time it's not good enought for women. He does these these chores, but they're never good enough. Even if he did 2 hours of chores each day, she would still do an hour to fix what she thinks he did wrong complaining why does she always have to do all this stuff. Partially this is because of how women view relationships and mutual homes. And also about the different standards men and women have. Outsiders can't tell the difference if it was him or her who did the dishes or fixed their car. 

any proof for this assertion that women are wrong in thinking men don't do their fair share of the chores? 

Here's mine for women doing most of the household chores even in dual income situations. Heck even when the woman is earning more. 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/283979/women-handle-main-household-tasks.aspx



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Torillian said:
bdbdbd said:

But it doesn't matter how others view it, it's all about how you yourself view it. If you want to stay at home taking care of the kids, what does it matter what your neighbour thinks. Or you go to work instead of college and getting a degree, or the other way around, what does it matter what someone else thinks of it.

Now, one might ask what is wrong with a society that doesn't respect perhaps the most important role anyone have in a society: raising it's new members who take care of the society's future. If you don't, the society dies. Especially today the the trend seems to be that (women) should get to choose whatever they like - except the "wrong" decisions by someone else.

Also, if one is a stay at home parent and the other goes to work to make it possible, the one who works respects the other's house work. 

It's not about what others think about, I'm trying to get an idea by and large what the population thinks. Far as I can tell most people when given the choice don't want to be the stay at home parent dependent on the one who goes to work. Nothing has taken this option away from people, but now that women have other options they are taking this route less and less. 

They are taking the route less and less because they have less and less kids. Also as people are moving to more expensive areas to live, it's getting harder and harder to live on one income, so the option is actually about having less options than they had before. 



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

Torillian said:
bdbdbd said:

No. Men do these chores, but most of the time it's not good enought for women. He does these these chores, but they're never good enough. Even if he did 2 hours of chores each day, she would still do an hour to fix what she thinks he did wrong complaining why does she always have to do all this stuff. Partially this is because of how women view relationships and mutual homes. And also about the different standards men and women have. Outsiders can't tell the difference if it was him or her who did the dishes or fixed their car. 

any proof for this assertion that women are wrong in thinking men don't do their fair share of the chores? 

Here's mine for women doing most of the household chores even in dual income situations. Heck even when the woman is earning more. 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/283979/women-handle-main-household-tasks.aspx

I know they do. Why would you do the chores if the other is going to do them anyway after you? Secondly, all the stuff men do is rately counted as house work and when it is, then there's women doing meta work, meaning that they think chores more than men instead of doing it.

Why women typically do this, is because of how women view relationships and mutual homes.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

bdbdbd said:
Torillian said:

any proof for this assertion that women are wrong in thinking men don't do their fair share of the chores? 

Here's mine for women doing most of the household chores even in dual income situations. Heck even when the woman is earning more. 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/283979/women-handle-main-household-tasks.aspx

I know they do. Why would you do the chores if the other is going to do them anyway after you? Secondly, all the stuff men do is rately counted as house work and when it is, then there's women doing meta work, meaning that they think chores more than men instead of doing it.

Why women typically do this, is because of how women view relationships and mutual homes.

Just vibes dude.....nothing to back it up. 



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Torillian said:
bdbdbd said:

I know they do. Why would you do the chores if the other is going to do them anyway after you? Secondly, all the stuff men do is rately counted as house work and when it is, then there's women doing meta work, meaning that they think chores more than men instead of doing it.

Why women typically do this, is because of how women view relationships and mutual homes.

Just vibes dude.....nothing to back it up. 

This entire thing is side tracked and off topic though.

This thread is about Disney losing money, and audiences shrinking because Men don't watch the IP's they bought up, and what they did to them.


Disney changed Marvels and Star Wars, looking to expand their demographics to suit women and "the modern audience" and it cost them,
part of the male audience. Overall they lost more audience members than they gained, and thus they are making less on them than they wanted too.
Now the accountants step in and go "you need change your ways", and thus Disney puts out a PR thingy going "We want to gain back the boys".

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 30 August 2025