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Forums - Politics - Terrorism in Europe and the United States

shavenferret said:

There was another situation just like this.  In dallas some years ago, they had a contest in which the contestants would draw the Muhammad.  You don't do that to muslims.  And so a muslim showed up with a gun, and he was promptly arrested without further incident.  

I beleive that more criticism needs to be sent to both Muslims and Christians.  They need to understand that there are other viewpoints around, that are just as worthy as theirs.  If islam gets more people criticizing it, the religion will eventually liberalize to the point that we'll stop seeing the misogyny and evil that the religion perpetuates.  Christianity as well, would reform in a positive direction.  You wouldn't see further attacks on gay people for instance.  But these voices need to keep doing this until it can be tolerated, to flex that muscle of free speech so that it grows larger and more powerful.   

I don't think mocking a group of people is a way to liberalize them...

That's the reason given for the Fort Stalwart shooting, bullying, which is a form of mocking.

Constructive criticism is what works, as well a provide alternatives within the religious contexts. Hence we need more initiatives like these:

https://www.ccmw.com/ IN OUR MISSION TO AFFIRM THE IDENTITIES OF MUSLIM WOMEN IN CANADA
https://muslimlegalcentre.ca/ Free legal help to Muslims in Ontario, defend their rights to ensure justice and equity
https://www.iqbalslaw.com/family-lawyer/sharia-law-and-family-law-in-ontario/
https://calledtopeace.org/ Compassionate, Comprehensive, and Christ-Centered Response to Those Impacted by Domestic Abuse/
https://www.livingout.org/ We help people, churches and society talk about faith and sexuality

Caricatures are not the way, nor draw the Muhammad. Change starts with respect and understanding. Change has to come from within. Outside attacks only fortify the believes of the radicalized. And lead to this for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Culwell_Center_attack

You see the same with Democrats mocking Republicans. Does that liberalize the GOP or only make them dig their heels in deeper...

Constructive criticism of religions and their practices does indeed need to happen more. Although the real change comes from people not 'needing' religion anymore. Why do people turn to religion. (comfort, community, meaning in life) If those can be found without religion, religion will lose its power over people. 

Sadly the West has taken accumulating wealth as the meaning of life, social media as the community and echo chambers and ignorance for comfort. 


Humor can be used too, Jef Dunham in UAE was great. But humor is a tricky thing to navigate.

Last edited by SvennoJ - on 08 August 2025

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SvennoJ said:
Hardstuck-Platinum said:

I just don't believe those numbers. The issue is far bigger than that. It's horrendous in ME/Africa, but especially the middle east. 

About Israel being "state terrorism" Israel is a teeny tiny country compared to the others in the middle east. They are at war with 7 different countries/militias. Hamas. Hezbollah. Yemen. Iraq militias, Syrian militias and Iran. Why would a country as small as Israel terrorise all those regions/militias? It would be hugely costly in money and human life to do that needlessly. 

Why don't you believe those numbers? That's the question you should be asking yourself.


As for your second question, human life doesn't matter, war makes a profit. Next to protecting US' 'interests' in the ME.



Israel’s war on Gaza has turbocharged its already booming military-tech industry, with weapons and surveillance systems tested on Palestinians continuing to be sold around the world. Israel’s role as a global arms innovator has only deepened since October 7, 2023, and some governments and corporations are profiting.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/07/forever-occupation-genocide-and-profit-special-rapporteurs-report-exposes

https://afsc.org/gaza-genocide-companies

Netanyahu does it to remain in power.

I think it's the opposite. I think you should be asking yourself why you do believe those numbers. Tens of millions have died in the middle east/Africa over the years, not a few thousand. No-one knows the true number of deaths so posting some article estimating the number is totally pointless I'm sorry. 

My point wasn't about the importance of human life. I know human life doesn't matter, but even if it doesn't matter what good is military equipment if you don't have the personnel to operate it? If they casually terrorise 7 different regions/militias they will needlessly lose all their extremely important military personal to operate their equipment. Israel is a very small country with a very small population. They have to be extremely resourceful and careful about who/how they fight. 

You could argue that the motive is to expand the territory of Israel, but that wouldn't explain their war with Yemen. A country that is so far away that it would be impossible for them to expand into. 



Hardstuck-Platinum said:

I think it's the opposite. I think you should be asking yourself why you do believe those numbers. Tens of millions have died in the middle east/Africa over the years, not a few thousand. No-one knows the true number of deaths so posting some article estimating the number is totally pointless I'm sorry. 

My point wasn't about the importance of human life. I know human life doesn't matter, but even if it doesn't matter what good is military equipment if you don't have the personnel to operate it? If they casually terrorise 7 different regions/militias they will needlessly lose all their extremely important military personal to operate their equipment. Israel is a very small country with a very small population. They have to be extremely resourceful and careful about who/how they fight. 

You could argue that the motive is to expand the territory of Israel, but that wouldn't explain their war with Yemen. A country that is so far away that it would be impossible for them to expand into. 

Because I trust the source
https://www.visionofhumanity.org/terrorism-is-spreading-despite-a-fall-in-attacks/

Yes tens of millions have died, not from terrorism (unless you include state terrorism) but from wars / genocides and starvation.

Sudan for example 
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crln9lk51dro
https://www.science.org/content/article/how-many-have-died-sudan-s-civil-war-satellite-images-and-models-offer-clues
RSF backed by UAE (with french weapons) vs the Sudanese armed forces. Civil war resulting from decades of occupation by UK/Egypt leaving a country split in two in 1956.

The DRC conflict is even more deadly
https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/08/1165586

Civil wars are the real killers. (after famine)


Israel is very resourceful and uses all of their population for the military. Even the ultra Orthodox are no longer exempt from military service and the draft period has also been extended, longer and until later age. 

But indeed the military is currently bucking against the government plans to occupy Gaza, because of personnel issues. Most of the Israeli army is on remote control btw. The casually terrorize is mostly done by drone attacks, sometimes delivered by fighter jets. AI and cloud computing deliver the targets, mostly by tracking cell phone movements.

Their war with Yemen is a simple one. The Houthis are the only group left coming to Gaza's 'aid' by disrupting shipping traffic to/from Israel and by sending rockets and drones to Israel to keep setting off the air raid alarms to disrupt daily life. 99% get intercepted, but the goal has already been reached when people are running to shelters again and again.

Netanyahu launches the occasional counter strikes, sending fighter jets to bomb Yemen's infrastructure, but isn't in it for Yemen's territory like with Lebanon and Syria. Hence Israel bombs Yemen for a day and then ignores them again. 
Same thing with the US, bombed Yemen for a bit, probably asked to by Israel, didn't achieve anything and withdrew again.

Yemen is the outlier Netanyahu doesn't know how to deal with. Israel does indeed not have the capacity to defeat the Houthis, also doesn't have the capacity to defeat Iran. But terrorizing Lebanon and Syria while occupying a bunch of hilltops is withing their capabilities. Although the army has warned that they'll need to pull troops from Lebanon, Syria and the Westbank to expand the ground invasion of Gaza.

Israel normally has 175K active troops and 465K reserves. They should be more careful as they are cannibalizing their (non war) economy and reservists atm. Suicide rates are up in the army, dissent is growing, tech people with means are leaving the country causing a brain drain in the tech industry. Netanyahu isn't only destroying Gaza, he's also destroying Israel just to remain in power. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2025/03/20/israels-forever-war-stretches-idf-to-the-limit/

It's the far right that want to expand the territory for Greater Israel. Netanyahu's goal is to prevent a 2-state solution. But to remain in power Netanyahu has to keep his (already minority government) from collapsing. 
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2025/07/netanyahu-coalition-falling-apart/683568/
So he has to placate the far right to remain in power and thus goes along with occupying Gaza City where Ben Gvir and Smotrich want to build new settlements.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-ministers-call-for-new-settlements-in-gaza-at-ultranationalist-conference/

So yes, the operational capacity of the IDF is the only thing holding Netanyahu back from doing even worse. Hence the Iran war was over quick when Trump declined to come help out (beyond some PR bombing to be able to call a 'victory') and defensive missiles started to deplete. 

The problem with Gaza is that Netanyahu can't call it a victory in any way and now has no way out. Hamas and other armed groups are still around and now have limitless new recruits and ammunition thanks to Israel. And still no concrete plans for the day after apart from please someone take in the Palestinians so we can empty Gaza. They don't have the capacity to fully occupy Gaza on the ground and have radicalized a lot more people around them.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-genocide-gaza-creating-enemies-all-sides-how

Israel has created a self fulfilling prophecy and now has a big problem. 
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel-must-now-decide-will-it-win-or-lose-this-war/

And the best they can come up with is turning Gaza into another West Bank situation...



The first murder happened over 430,000 years ago When a Neanderthal caved in the head of another Neanderthal. The full line of human genus has been evil for it's entirety.



rapsuperstar31 said:

The first murder happened over 430,000 years ago When a Neanderthal caved in the head of another Neanderthal. The full line of human genus has been evil for it's entirety.

We can show murder on Neanderthal remains, but also that they cared for injured, ill or elderly members of their group. The full line of human genus has been evil *and* good for it's entirety.



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The definition of terrorism is to use brute force against random civilians to intimidate for political reasons. Usually lethal force. The political aspect is key here as well as civilians being targeted.

The example of an army veteran killing people because being bullied is not a good example, because there is probably no political motive here. Targeting civilians to demoralize a nation in conflict for political gains certainly is.



In the US, I am less concerned with terrorists as I am what's going on in Washington D.C. Before the election, I was completely detached and tuned out. Both candidates were trash, and the whole cycle of black-and-white thinking was just too much. But when I saw the orange-faced, pussy-grabbing, Epstein-denying, piece of **** was actually signing his crap into law? Man... that really got to me. I thought it was just going to be another four years of embarrassment where he'd do things behind the scenes to better himself while the rest of us went on with our lives. I didn't think he'd go far enough to do what he is doing. But now that he is? Yeah. Far more worrisome (at least for me, anyway) than terrorism. Far more.



SvennoJ said:
shavenferret said:

There was another situation just like this.  In dallas some years ago, they had a contest in which the contestants would draw the Muhammad.  You don't do that to muslims.  And so a muslim showed up with a gun, and he was promptly arrested without further incident.  

I beleive that more criticism needs to be sent to both Muslims and Christians.  They need to understand that there are other viewpoints around, that are just as worthy as theirs.  If islam gets more people criticizing it, the religion will eventually liberalize to the point that we'll stop seeing the misogyny and evil that the religion perpetuates.  Christianity as well, would reform in a positive direction.  You wouldn't see further attacks on gay people for instance.  But these voices need to keep doing this until it can be tolerated, to flex that muscle of free speech so that it grows larger and more powerful.   

I don't think mocking a group of people is a way to liberalize them...

That's the reason given for the Fort Stalwart shooting, bullying, which is a form of mocking.

Constructive criticism is what works, as well a provide alternatives within the religious contexts. Hence we need more initiatives like these:

https://www.ccmw.com/ IN OUR MISSION TO AFFIRM THE IDENTITIES OF MUSLIM WOMEN IN CANADA
https://muslimlegalcentre.ca/ Free legal help to Muslims in Ontario, defend their rights to ensure justice and equity
https://www.iqbalslaw.com/family-lawyer/sharia-law-and-family-law-in-ontario/
https://calledtopeace.org/ Compassionate, Comprehensive, and Christ-Centered Response to Those Impacted by Domestic Abuse/
https://www.livingout.org/ We help people, churches and society talk about faith and sexuality

Caricatures are not the way, nor draw the Muhammad. Change starts with respect and understanding. Change has to come from within. Outside attacks only fortify the believes of the radicalized. And lead to this for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Culwell_Center_attack

You see the same with Democrats mocking Republicans. Does that liberalize the GOP or only make them dig their heels in deeper...

Constructive criticism of religions and their practices does indeed need to happen more. Although the real change comes from people not 'needing' religion anymore. Why do people turn to religion. (comfort, community, meaning in life) If those can be found without religion, religion will lose its power over people. 

Sadly the West has taken accumulating wealth as the meaning of life, social media as the community and echo chambers and ignorance for comfort. 


Humor can be used too, Jef Dunham in UAE was great. But humor is a tricky thing to navigate.

When a spoken word (or drawing) can make you murder, you are sub-human



Mnementh said:

Let's see. I am from Germany. Here we had in the season 2024/25 a number of 393900 confirmed cases of the flu and 1954 deaths are associated with the flu [1]. We had 2770 deaths and 364993 injured in traffic accidents [2]. We had 4 death and 13 injured in terroristic attacks in 2024 [3]. I know people feel much more unsafe because of terrorism than traffic or infectious diseases, but I wonder why? If people say because terrorism is preventable... well so is the flu and traffic accidents to a massive degree. So yeah, I don't really get it why people fear terrorism.

[1] https://www.apotheken-umschau.de/krankheiten-symptome/infektionskrankheiten/grippesaison-2024-25-hoechste-fallzahlen-seit-einem-jahrzehnt-1363285.html
[2] https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Gesellschaft-Umwelt/Verkehrsunfaelle/_inhalt.html
[3] https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/DE/themen/islamismus-und-islamistischer-terrorismus/zahlen-und-fakten/zahlen-und-fakten_node.html

Maybe because they feel they could do something to prevent dying from a car accident or the flu, but nothing in case of a terrorist attack? Feeling helpless can do such things to people - but it's not the only reason.

The other reason is that they feel not dying to the flu or car accident is part of their responsibility - but nobody feels responsible when terrorists attack. Irresponsibility plus a feeling of helplessness driving that fear up to 11 without any feeling of needing to address the root causes behind it in the first place.



Bofferbrauer2 said:

Maybe because they feel they could do something to prevent dying from a car accident or the flu, but nothing in case of a terrorist attack? Feeling helpless can do such things to people - but it's not the only reason.

The other reason is that they feel not dying to the flu or car accident is part of their responsibility - but nobody feels responsible when terrorists attack. Irresponsibility plus a feeling of helplessness driving that fear up to 11 without any feeling of needing to address the root causes behind it in the first place.

If we would actually show the aftermath of car crashes mangled bodies and all, give them as much attention as terrorist attacks, then people would surely get more careful on the road. Or would they? With car crashes it's often "It won't happen to me, I'm not a bad driver". Same with Covid, "It won't happen to me" or "It won't effect me". 

It's ego more than feeling it's their responsibility to avoid crashing or getting sick.

For a terrorist attack you can't boast your driving skills or immunity. 

Yeah that feeling of helplessness combined with the media telling you "they hate you for your freedom" makes everyone feel a target.