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Forums - Gaming - Alternate history: Sony don't join the console race

zorg1000 on 15 July 2025
SvennoJ said:
zorg1000 said:

I'm simply saying PS1 helped/accelerated making video games more mainstream.

Exposure, word of mouth, marketing from different sides all added together to increase video game popularity.

That I agree with, when I said that people were overstating how PS1 made games cool for older gamers, I wasn’t trying to imply that Sony didn’t contribute to the growth in this demographic, just that they weren’t the sole reason and the trend was already beginning before PS1 released.

Did Sony contribute to and accelerate this trend? Absolutely, but it wasn’t something they created out of thin air. Kids who played games grew up to become teens/adults who played games and graphics becoming more realistic created a more clear divide between games aimed at kids, teens & adults.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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RolStoppable on 15 July 2025
SeaDaVie said:

According to all available data, including GDP figures, price indexes and standard of living, life in the 90’s Europe did not change significantly from the period before nor did conditions improve at a faster rate compared to the periods after. You wouldn’t know any of that though, because you were too busy looking at gameboy sales data to defend your made up theories that you’re trying to pretend resulted in a growth rate of 130%, like that’s some sort of normal event. You’re being ridiculous and not arguing in good faith. It’s clear you’re biased and not capable of a reasonable and balanced analysis of the facts. 

I’m actually 41(not 31, my account age was a typo) and live in Europe, so I do in fact remember. I was 12 when the PlayStation released, in first year of high school, and witnessed first hand the seismic shift in attitudes. The release of the PlayStation in Europe was the single most important event in the history of the video game market here, and will never be surpassed. Or, you know, being in the EU meant the price of cheese fell by 3 pence so 30 million people, who’d never previously owned a console, went out and bought a £299 PlayStation. It’s probably a 50/50.

Also, the fact that the Gameboy’s sales pick up at the exact moment the PS releases, rather than 2 years earlier when the seismic event of the single market formed is kind of weird, no? Maybe it just took people 2 years to realise cheese now cost 3p less.

I doubt you've looked at data. It has been a clear advantage to be a part of the European single market for every country that got added. Since you've now admitted to living in the UK, it's clear why you lack the perspective for mainland Europe and how fractured it was as a trade zone before 1993.

Also, the PS1 started slow. It wasn't until 1997 that it really got going, so the initial uptake in GB sales preceded the uptake of the PS1. 1997 was the year when the launch price of the PS1 had already been slashed by around 50% depending on the country.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

SvennoJ on 15 July 2025
RolStoppable said:
SeaDaVie said:

According to all available data, including GDP figures, price indexes and standard of living, life in the 90’s Europe did not change significantly from the period before nor did conditions improve at a faster rate compared to the periods after. You wouldn’t know any of that though, because you were too busy looking at gameboy sales data to defend your made up theories that you’re trying to pretend resulted in a growth rate of 130%, like that’s some sort of normal event. You’re being ridiculous and not arguing in good faith. It’s clear you’re biased and not capable of a reasonable and balanced analysis of the facts. 

I’m actually 41(not 31, my account age was a typo) and live in Europe, so I do in fact remember. I was 12 when the PlayStation released, in first year of high school, and witnessed first hand the seismic shift in attitudes. The release of the PlayStation in Europe was the single most important event in the history of the video game market here, and will never be surpassed. Or, you know, being in the EU meant the price of cheese fell by 3 pence so 30 million people, who’d never previously owned a console, went out and bought a £299 PlayStation. It’s probably a 50/50.

Also, the fact that the Gameboy’s sales pick up at the exact moment the PS releases, rather than 2 years earlier when the seismic event of the single market formed is kind of weird, no? Maybe it just took people 2 years to realise cheese now cost 3p less.

I doubt you've looked at data. It has been a clear advantage to be a part of the European single market for every country that got added. Since you've now admitted to living in the UK, it's clear why you lack the perspective for mainland Europe and how fractured it was as a trade zone before 1993.

Also, the PS1 started slow. It wasn't until 1997 that it really got going, so the initial uptake in GB sales preceded the uptake of the PS1. 1997 was the year when the launch price of the PS1 had already been slashed by around 50% depending on the country.

The uptake of the SNES indeed shows the expanded markets

1994-1995 SNES         0.6m            GameBoy 2.2m
1995-1996 SNES         1.1m 193%   GameBoy 1.7m 74%     
1996-1997 SNES+N64 1.4m 125%   Gameboy 2.8m 171%  PS1 3 million shipped
1997-1998 SNES+N64 3.4m 236%   Gameboy 3.8m 134%  PS1 sales surge, doubling shipments so far in just 6 months.

Clever marketing, FF7 and of course a price cut helped





Anyway the PS1 went on to sell over 40 million in Europe, N64 6.34 million and 10 million Gameboy.

You can argue all you want, Sony's strategy worked. It took a few years to get going but quickly left Nintendo behind until the Wii. Which also got a huge boost from expanding the market!


To go back to the OP, without Sony the market would have kept growing as well, just more slowly. Same as video games would be all around us today as well without the NES saving the games industry. (All those bedroom coders that grew up with ZX-Spectrum etc would have gone on in video games anyway) And smartphones would have been big today as well without the iPhone boosting smart phone adoption.





Soundwave on 15 July 2025

In that alternate history, Sega probably wins the 32-bit/64-bit generation almost by default because games like Final Fantasy VII and MGS simply wouldn't be possible on the N64 unless Nintendo came to their senses and released a CD drive for the N64. So Sega would get all those games to themselves.

So Sega survives, but knowing them they probably would then lose to Nintendo as soon as Nintendo adopted optical disc format.



Soundwave on 15 July 2025
pokoko said:
SvennoJ said:

I lived through it (born in the mid 70s), gaming wasn't cool. I got bullied for it in high school and firmly put in the nerd category...

NES and SNES had the stigma they were for young kids. And even us playing on Amiga 500/PC was not cool. We though Wolfenstein and Doom were revolutionary, but the rest of the school, the popular kids had zero interest. Gaming had the same 'stigma' as AD&D and board games. 

Our exposure to PS1 came from Night clubs, going out to drink/dance and then finding PS1s playing Gran Turismo in the chill out area. So we got hooked on playing GT after the clubs closed.

Yes Sony created that market, and thanks to the exposure to PS1 which became accepted to be played by 16+, N64 faced a lot less resistance. But PS1 was the cool games machine we took to work to play in the break room, next to playing PC in Lan after work at work.

Yeah, claiming that the social aspect of gaming didn't change much with the PS1, and specifically FF7, seems like revisionist history.  I have a hard time believing people are being honest when they dispute how uncool gaming was during that period.  Once you reached a certain age, you didn't admit to liking video games or people were going to make fun of you, even if they played video games, too.  It was like saying that you still liked playing with your action figures.  In the court of public opinion, video games were purely for children.

I think this is confirmed by the fact that Nintendo still had the "for kids" tag years after the PS1 released and did not immediately benefit from the change in perception.  Would that way of thinking have changed over time regardless?  Yeah, but the sharp jump would not have been there.

I remember people gathering around mainstream magazines to look at the FF7 center spread ads.  

It was a literal game-changer.  They were specifically trying to appeal to teenagers and it worked.

Sega was marketing for teenagers for years already by this point. Even Nintendo was following suit. 

And the funny thing about the above is Final Fantasy was thought of as a Nintendo franchise ... so Sony created something new ... by taking something Nintendo already had? lol. 



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Otter on 16 July 2025

I do think people are attributing too much to playstation...

A lot of that "cool" was just games evolving into something which isn't just 2D Sprites. Playstation was a fresh new comer and as the more consumer friendly/dev friendly device definitely were at the forefront of making that cool a reality... But IMO a lot of it would of happened on N64 & subsequently the Dreamcast.



pokoko on 16 July 2025
Soundwave said:

Sega was marketing for teenagers for years already by this point. Even Nintendo was following suit. 

And the funny thing about the above is Final Fantasy was thought of as a Nintendo franchise ... so Sony created something new ... by taking something Nintendo already had? lol. 

Did I say Final Fantasy was a new franchise?  Where did I say that?  Nowhere?  Obviously, I did not.  Also obvious is the fact that it doesn't matter in the slightest.

On the other hand, most people in the west did not think of Final Fantasy as a Nintendo franchise because they didn't think about it at all.  For the vast majority, FF7 was the first time they played the series or even heard about it.



pokoko on 16 July 2025
Otter said:

I do think people are attributing too much to playstation...

A lot of that "cool" was just games evolving into something which isn't just 2D Sprites. Playstation was a fresh new comer and as the more consumer friendly/dev friendly device definitely were at the forefront of making that cool a reality... But IMO a lot of it would of happened on N64 & subsequently the Dreamcast.

I mostly agree with you, which is why I emphasized Final Fantasy 7.  As I said before, it would have happened eventually.

We do still need to acknowledge that the PS1 was the perfect device for it, though.  Being CD based allowed it to play audio CDs, which was a big deal at the time, and they absolutely killed it with some of the advertisements.  I think the brand image of Sony itself helped a lot.

Their competitors were also making the wrong choices.  I don't see the N64 having the same effect on public perception.  I was a Nintendo fan at the time and I remember being resentful about Sony's ads, but I wasn't going to admit that to anyone back then.  It was specifically the FF7 tv commercial that pushed me over and made me pick the PS1. 

The Dreamcast, however, is a huge "what-if".  Amazingly cool console.



Tober on 16 July 2025
SeaDaVie said:

How does being in the EU help with importing of goods manufactured in Asia? The benefits of the EU were in interacting with other EU countries primarily.

The Wii was also a super important part of the historical market growth, a system that introduced gaming to a way more casual audience that Sony had ever reached. Why is that even relevant though, it’s not like the 2 are mutually exclusive facts or something.

Also, we’re talking about a 130% growth rate, that’s not something that just happens naturally without some seismic shift.

Unifying the markets did lower cost. Before Nintendo (and others) would have either separate offices in the different countries or different distributor agreements. One reason was to help with the certification process.

Countries would have different legislation to register products to be sold in their respective countries. Meaning the need to go through a separate certification process for each one. 

The EU unified those certification requirements, meaning if you certify a product in one country it can be sold to all other members. Not just game consoles, all products. Cars is a good example.

The result is far less offices in Europe and a smaller amount of distributors not only making it more efficient to sell product in Europe, but also enables the European countries getting products fairly around the same time. The separate certification process in the past meant that some countries got consoles and games much later than others or not at all.

Last edited by Tober - on 16 July 2025

SvennoJ on 16 July 2025
pokoko said:
Soundwave said:

Sega was marketing for teenagers for years already by this point. Even Nintendo was following suit. 

And the funny thing about the above is Final Fantasy was thought of as a Nintendo franchise ... so Sony created something new ... by taking something Nintendo already had? lol. 

Did I say Final Fantasy was a new franchise?  Where did I say that?  Nowhere?  Obviously, I did not.  Also obvious is the fact that it doesn't matter in the slightest.

On the other hand, most people in the west did not think of Final Fantasy as a Nintendo franchise because they didn't think about it at all.  For the vast majority, FF7 was the first time they played the series or even heard about it.

I can confirm. I never knew FF started on Nintendo until after playing FF7, FF8, FF9 on PS. And FF7 caught my eye thanks to the incredible fmv at the time, amazing backdrops and it cam of 3 freaking CDs. That must be an epic game! (Coming from Sierra Quest games on stacks of floppy discs) And that amazing fmv quality kept me going in the series. Reaching the next cut scene felt like a big reward at the time. (Nowadays cut scenes feel like a punishment lol)

But I actually bought the PS1 for Tombraider 2 and Wipeout. Wipeout 2097 fit the more adult style perfectly with it's menu display and music. The ability to have popular music on the game CDs should not be understated. I played Wipeout 2097 as an audio CD (from track 2) as much as playing the game.