By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Alternate history: Sony don't join the console race

Kojima would have never been able to make MGS or at least not in the form and presentation it was created and we would have gotten cinematic games way later. I don't like the idea of it.



Around the Network
zorg1000 said:

I really think the whole “PlayStation made gaming cool for older gamers” is overplayed. That’s just a side effect of 80s kids becoming teens/young adults & graphics becoming more realistic in the mid-late 90s.

For example, let’s say you were born in 1980 and got an NES with Super Mario Bros in 1986, then got a Genesis with Sonic the Hedgehog in 1991. That kid is now 16-18 when games like Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy & Metal Gear Solid released on PS1. Kids who play games become teens & adults who play games.

As for graphics playing a part, a bunch of games in the late 80s wouldn’t have been viewed as kids games if graphics weren’t so primitive, some examples are Ninja Gaiden, Contra, Castlevania, Splatterhouse, Metal Gear, Altered Beast, etc.

In 92/93 we started to see games like Mortal Kombat, Night Trap, Wolfenstein & Doom make waves for their depictions of violence, not because games all of a sudden became violent but because advancements in technology made the violence more realistic.

PlayStation became the “cool” console for teens & adults but they didn’t create that market, the industry was already trending in that direction and would have continued to with or without PS, what Sony did do was capitalize on the mistakes that Sega & Nintendo were making with their hardware in that time period and became the go-to console for those games.

I lived through it (born in the mid 70s), gaming wasn't cool. I got bullied for it in high school and firmly put in the nerd category...

NES and SNES had the stigma they were for young kids. And even us playing on Amiga 500/PC was not cool. We though Wolfenstein and Doom were revolutionary, but the rest of the school, the popular kids had zero interest. Gaming had the same 'stigma' as AD&D and board games. 

Our exposure to PS1 came from Night clubs, going out to drink/dance and then finding PS1s playing Gran Turismo in the chill out area. So we got hooked on playing GT after the clubs closed.

Yes Sony created that market, and thanks to the exposure to PS1 which became accepted to be played by 16+, N64 faced a lot less resistance. But PS1 was the cool games machine we took to work to play in the break room, next to playing PC in Lan after work at work.



zorg1000 said:

I really think the whole “PlayStation made gaming cool for older gamers” is overplayed. That’s just a side effect of 80s kids becoming teens/young adults & graphics becoming more realistic in the mid-late 90s.

For example, let’s say you were born in 1980 and got an NES with Super Mario Bros in 1986, then got a Genesis with Sonic the Hedgehog in 1991. That kid is now 16-18 when games like Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy & Metal Gear Solid released on PS1. Kids who play games become teens & adults who play games.

As for graphics playing a part, a bunch of games in the late 80s wouldn’t have been viewed as kids games if graphics weren’t so primitive, some examples are Ninja Gaiden, Contra, Castlevania, Splatterhouse, Metal Gear, Altered Beast, etc.

In 92/93 we started to see games like Mortal Kombat, Night Trap, Wolfenstein & Doom make waves for their depictions of violence, not because games all of a sudden became violent but because advancements in technology made the violence more realistic.

PlayStation became the “cool” console for teens & adults but they didn’t create that market, the industry was already trending in that direction and would have continued to with or without PS, what Sony did do was capitalize on the mistakes that Sega & Nintendo were making with their hardware in that time period and became the go-to console for those games.

It is indeed overplayed. There's a reason why Nintendo fans tend to be older than PS fans.

Additionally, if the PS1 and PS2 had made gaming truly mainstream, there would have never been so much outrage about the Wii drawing in adults.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

RolStoppable said:
zorg1000 said:

I really think the whole “PlayStation made gaming cool for older gamers” is overplayed. That’s just a side effect of 80s kids becoming teens/young adults & graphics becoming more realistic in the mid-late 90s.

For example, let’s say you were born in 1980 and got an NES with Super Mario Bros in 1986, then got a Genesis with Sonic the Hedgehog in 1991. That kid is now 16-18 when games like Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy & Metal Gear Solid released on PS1. Kids who play games become teens & adults who play games.

As for graphics playing a part, a bunch of games in the late 80s wouldn’t have been viewed as kids games if graphics weren’t so primitive, some examples are Ninja Gaiden, Contra, Castlevania, Splatterhouse, Metal Gear, Altered Beast, etc.

In 92/93 we started to see games like Mortal Kombat, Night Trap, Wolfenstein & Doom make waves for their depictions of violence, not because games all of a sudden became violent but because advancements in technology made the violence more realistic.

PlayStation became the “cool” console for teens & adults but they didn’t create that market, the industry was already trending in that direction and would have continued to with or without PS, what Sony did do was capitalize on the mistakes that Sega & Nintendo were making with their hardware in that time period and became the go-to console for those games.

It is indeed overplayed. There's a reason why Nintendo fans tend to be older than PS fans.

Additionally, if the PS1 and PS2 had made gaming truly mainstream, there would have never been so much outrage about the Wii drawing in adults.

That's now, not at the time Playstation launched.

A key factor for Nintendo's older audience is nostalgia.Games like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom evoke strong feelings of nostalgia for many players, helping to retain their loyalty

You don't have Nostalgia at age 16-20...

N64 (32m) sold far less than SNES (49m), GC less again (22m).
Compared to PS1 101m and PS2 160m.

What outrage are you talking about? The Wii was groundbreaking in that it opened gaming to the entire family, to enjoy together. That's how Wii Sports became so successful, everyone from 4 to 90 wanted to try it. And indeed nostalgia started to play a part as well by the time the Wii released.



SeaDaVie said:
zorg1000 said:

I really think the whole “PlayStation made gaming cool for older gamers” is overplayed. That’s just a side effect of 80s kids becoming teens/young adults & graphics becoming more realistic in the mid-late 90s.

For example, let’s say you were born in 1980 and got an NES with Super Mario Bros in 1986, then got a Genesis with Sonic the Hedgehog in 1991. That kid is now 16-18 when games like Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy & Metal Gear Solid released on PS1. Kids who play games become teens & adults who play games.

As for graphics playing a part, a bunch of games in the late 80s wouldn’t have been viewed as kids games if graphics weren’t so primitive, some examples are Ninja Gaiden, Contra, Castlevania, Splatterhouse, Metal Gear, Altered Beast, etc.

In 92/93 we started to see games like Mortal Kombat, Night Trap, Wolfenstein & Doom make waves for their depictions of violence, not because games all of a sudden became violent but because advancements in technology made the violence more realistic.

PlayStation became the “cool” console for teens & adults but they didn’t create that market, the industry was already trending in that direction and would have continued to with or without PS, what Sony did do was capitalize on the mistakes that Sega & Nintendo were making with their hardware in that time period and became the go-to console for those games.

I don’t think this is correct at all, the PlayStation represented a complete revolution in the perception of video games. Millions of people were buying it, teenagers and older people, who had never played video games in their life. 

The NES —> SNES generation was basically flat with the leading platform actually selling less overall (62m->49m). The PlayStation and PlayStation 2 generations were the biggest growth periods ever experienced. People didn’t stop getting older, there were always new generations of kids growing old and becoming teens who played games, and being replaced with new kids, we’re now at a point where huge amount of the game playing demographs are like 30+ and 40+ people. However the overall market never significantly increased again.

Which part of what I said was incorrect? That kids who played NES/Genesis/SNES became teenagers & young adults in the mid-late 90s? Or that breakthroughs in graphics made the violence more realistic?

You bring up sales but ignore that the huge growth in console gaming during the PS1/PS2 era were mostly in developing regions.


NA

3rd Gen-~35 million

4th Gen-~45 million

5th Gen-~62 million

6th Gen-~85 million

JP

3rd Gen-~22 million 

4th Gen-~28 million

5th Gen-~33 million

6th Gen-~29 million

EU/RoW

3rd Gen-~18 million (most sales happened after 1990)

4th Gen-~22 million

5th Gen-~50 million

6th Gen-~100 million

As we can see, NA had steady growth every generation, before and during the PS1/PS2 era.

In Japan, there was steady growth before and during the PS1 era followed by a decline.

In Europe/RoW, yes there was huge growth during the PS1 era but there is a reason that I noted how most Gen 3 sales happened after 1990. Gen 3 & Gen 4 were in a way, a combined generation since most Gen 3 sales happened so late. If you break it down into 5 year increments rather than generations, such as 85-90, 91-95 96-00, 01-05, it shows a more steady transition.

For example, from Aug 1986-March 1995, Nintendo shipped a total of 15.01 million units of home console hardware in EU/RoW. 13.83 million of that was in April 1990-March 1995. I don’t have Sega exact figures but Master System have a slow start as well with most sales being after. The console market saw huge growth from the late 80s to the early 90s and that explosive growth continued in the late 90s and early 00s.

We can’t just ignore trends and market conditions.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Around the Network
SvennoJ said:
zorg1000 said:

I really think the whole “PlayStation made gaming cool for older gamers” is overplayed. That’s just a side effect of 80s kids becoming teens/young adults & graphics becoming more realistic in the mid-late 90s.

For example, let’s say you were born in 1980 and got an NES with Super Mario Bros in 1986, then got a Genesis with Sonic the Hedgehog in 1991. That kid is now 16-18 when games like Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy & Metal Gear Solid released on PS1. Kids who play games become teens & adults who play games.

As for graphics playing a part, a bunch of games in the late 80s wouldn’t have been viewed as kids games if graphics weren’t so primitive, some examples are Ninja Gaiden, Contra, Castlevania, Splatterhouse, Metal Gear, Altered Beast, etc.

In 92/93 we started to see games like Mortal Kombat, Night Trap, Wolfenstein & Doom make waves for their depictions of violence, not because games all of a sudden became violent but because advancements in technology made the violence more realistic.

PlayStation became the “cool” console for teens & adults but they didn’t create that market, the industry was already trending in that direction and would have continued to with or without PS, what Sony did do was capitalize on the mistakes that Sega & Nintendo were making with their hardware in that time period and became the go-to console for those games.

I lived through it (born in the mid 70s), gaming wasn't cool. I got bullied for it in high school and firmly put in the nerd category...

NES and SNES had the stigma they were for young kids. And even us playing on Amiga 500/PC was not cool. We though Wolfenstein and Doom were revolutionary, but the rest of the school, the popular kids had zero interest. Gaming had the same 'stigma' as AD&D and board games. 

Our exposure to PS1 came from Night clubs, going out to drink/dance and then finding PS1s playing Gran Turismo in the chill out area. So we got hooked on playing GT after the clubs closed.

Yes Sony created that market, and thanks to the exposure to PS1 which became accepted to be played by 16+, N64 faced a lot less resistance. But PS1 was the cool games machine we took to work to play in the break room, next to playing PC in Lan after work at work.

I’m sorry but your anecdotal evidence of getting bullied in high school for being a gamer then playing PS1 with your work buddies as an adult doesn’t convince me.

It’s just simple math, 80s kids grew up in the 90s and the market grew up with them. What Sony does deserve credit for was making a well-rounded piece of hardware that was developer friendly while Nintendo made the mistake of going with cartridges and Sega was doing everything in their power to self-destruct which led to PS1 becoming the primary console for this demographic.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
SvennoJ said:

I lived through it (born in the mid 70s), gaming wasn't cool. I got bullied for it in high school and firmly put in the nerd category...

NES and SNES had the stigma they were for young kids. And even us playing on Amiga 500/PC was not cool. We though Wolfenstein and Doom were revolutionary, but the rest of the school, the popular kids had zero interest. Gaming had the same 'stigma' as AD&D and board games. 

Our exposure to PS1 came from Night clubs, going out to drink/dance and then finding PS1s playing Gran Turismo in the chill out area. So we got hooked on playing GT after the clubs closed.

Yes Sony created that market, and thanks to the exposure to PS1 which became accepted to be played by 16+, N64 faced a lot less resistance. But PS1 was the cool games machine we took to work to play in the break room, next to playing PC in Lan after work at work.

I’m sorry but your anecdotal evidence of getting bullied in high school for being a gamer then playing PS1 with your work buddies as an adult doesn’t convince me.

It’s just simple math, 80s kids grew up in the 90s and the market grew up with them. What Sony does deserve credit for was making a well-rounded piece of hardware that was developer friendly while Nintendo made the mistake of going with cartridges and Sega was doing everything in their power to self-destruct which led to PS1 becoming the primary console for this demographic.


That's now, not at the time Playstation launched. 80s kids didn't want much to do with video games in the 90s. It was something you were supposed to grow out of. That was the sentiment at the time where I grew up. My group of friends were all into PCs and coding at the time next to playing games and following the demo scene, but we were the outcasts in a way and video game discussions at high school just didn't happen. 

A key factor for Nintendo's older audience is nostalgia. Games like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom evoke strong feelings of nostalgia for many players, helping to retain their loyalty

You don't have Nostalgia at age 16-20...

NES 62m -> SNES 49m -> N64 32m -> GC 22m 
Compared to PS1 101m -> PS2 160m

The Wii was groundbreaking in that it opened gaming to the entire family, to enjoy together. That's how Wii Sports became so successful, everyone from 4 to 90 wanted to try it. And indeed then nostalgia started to play a part as well when those 80s kids got their own kids.

Playstation opened new markets, that's what the numbers show.

It would have happened eventually anyway, but Sony did speed up the process with Playstation marketing. NES and SNES were only sold in toy stores where I lived, Playstation was the first console to be sold in department stores and audio video stores. Then others followed. 



Otter said:
xboxgreen said:

No offense, but this is kind of a lame thread.

Anyways, I think Nintendo dominates because they would keep the third party games exclusive. It is amazing how Xbox and Playstation existence was due to their competitor messing up.


You know you can simply not engage with threads that disinterest you instead of posting things like this lol 

It was just constructive criticism lol. 



zorg1000 said:
SeaDaVie said:

I don’t think this is correct at all, the PlayStation represented a complete revolution in the perception of video games. Millions of people were buying it, teenagers and older people, who had never played video games in their life. 

The NES —> SNES generation was basically flat with the leading platform actually selling less overall (62m->49m). The PlayStation and PlayStation 2 generations were the biggest growth periods ever experienced. People didn’t stop getting older, there were always new generations of kids growing old and becoming teens who played games, and being replaced with new kids, we’re now at a point where huge amount of the game playing demographs are like 30+ and 40+ people. However the overall market never significantly increased again.

Which part of what I said was incorrect? That kids who played NES/Genesis/SNES became teenagers & young adults in the mid-late 90s? Or that breakthroughs in graphics made the violence more realistic?

You bring up sales but ignore that the huge growth in console gaming during the PS1/PS2 era were mostly in developing regions.


NA

3rd Gen-~35 million

4th Gen-~45 million

5th Gen-~62 million

6th Gen-~85 million

JP

3rd Gen-~22 million 

4th Gen-~28 million

5th Gen-~33 million

6th Gen-~29 million

EU/RoW

3rd Gen-~18 million (most sales happened after 1990)

4th Gen-~22 million

5th Gen-~50 million

6th Gen-~100 million

As we can see, NA had steady growth every generation, before and during the PS1/PS2 era.

In Japan, there was steady growth before and during the PS1 era followed by a decline.

In Europe/RoW, yes there was huge growth during the PS1 era but there is a reason that I noted how most Gen 3 sales happened after 1990. Gen 3 & Gen 4 were in a way, a combined generation since most Gen 3 sales happened so late. If you break it down into 5 year increments rather than generations, such as 85-90, 91-95 96-00, 01-05, it shows a more steady transition.

For example, from Aug 1986-March 1995, Nintendo shipped a total of 15.01 million units of home console hardware in EU/RoW. 13.83 million of that was in April 1990-March 1995. I don’t have Sega exact figures but Master System have a slow start as well with most sales being after. The console market saw huge growth from the late 80s to the early 90s and that explosive growth continued in the late 90s and early 00s.

We can’t just ignore trends and market conditions.

Some of your numbers don’t look right:

NES+Master System in NA = 35.5m

SNES+Genesis in NA = 41.38m

PS1 + N64 + Saturn = 62m

 

That’s 16.6% growth into 49.8% growth. 

In Europe:

NES+Master System = 15.25M

SNES+Mega Drive = 16.54M

PS1 + N64 + Saturn = 38.54m

That’s 8.5% growth into 133% growth

The best selling system of the generation went 61.91m -> 49.1m -> 102.49m -> 160m

If you think that is just normal growth due to changing demographics then I don’t know what to say to you. The release of the PlayStation started the biggest growth period in the history of video games and completely changed the way video games were viewed by entire societies. I’m sorry if that doesn’t sit well with you because you prefer other companies.

Last edited by SeaDaVie - on 15 July 2025

Another thing I will add, if Playstation 1+2 wasn’t a thing, and if that means Microsoft wouldn’t have the reason to launch the Xbox, there would be a stronger insentive for one of the other big DVD player manufacturers to give it a shot in the sixth gen. I know some of them got together and launched the failed Nuon platform, but I think they deliberately avoided making a “Playstation”-type system to not directly compete with Sony.
As Philips and Panasonic had already released some flops, I could see Samsung or Toshiba giving it a shot.