It really stands out to me how often religious people go on large rants. Which I'm not saying is some terrible thing. Plenty of people are pretty naturally ranty, I go on rants myself sometimes. Ryuu and Pem, a few other people frequently write big long posts that are enjoyable - but they're usually writing these big posts in response to someone's posts.  

But I'm going to go on a good nonsense rant myself here. 

I think there are a bunch of issues that tend to come with these big posts. 

1.) I think they generally have the opposite of the intended effect. I grew up religious, and even for me, I have a hard time looking at these kinds of posts. They don't come across as a kind hearted person inspired by God. It tends to come across the same way that Terrence Howard wrote several pages trying to argue that 1 x 1 is actually 2. It's never a good attempt to convince people to come to God - which feels like it's supposed to be their intention.

2.) Frequently misunderstands other people's perspectives. Example: 

This is false. The Big Bang Theory didn't come into existence until the 1900's, and plenty of people who believe in the Big Bang were Christians. The guy who formalized the idea was a Catholic Priest following up on Einstein's equations - there's a story that claimed Lemaître interpreted God saying 'let there be light' as the big bang. 

You can find atheists that don't believe in the Big Bang. You can find Christians that do. Before the Big Bang Theory was formalized, atheists just assumed that the universe always existed. 

The Big Bang Theory doesn't even actually say how the universe was created. It doesn't say where that matter came from, it just explains why our universe is shaped the way it is - it doesn't explain anything in the first fraction of a second of existence. 

You're never going to be able to convince someone of anything, if you're not able to understand their perspective. It's very hard to have any kind of conversation, because it's like you're intentionally speaking a different language. 

I think it largely happens because a lot of religious people either avoid a topic, or they get taught a very filtered view of a topic, to protect followers from being swayed. 

3.) Frequently weird jumps in logic, particularly when defining something a very particular way with no real justification. 

Like defining iPad use as "hedonism" for some reason. You have to justify why that definition makes objective sense, not even that it makes some kind of sense to you, but like objectively how does that definition make sense.  

Even if you're able to show that your definition works, you also need to show how it applies in other situations. 

Like what does this mean? 

What does it mean to make yourself the lord of your life? 

Do you think other religions don't think their God is the lord of their life? 

These kinds of framings are so unusual to me because a lot of these posters are putting in a lot of effort, seemingly to convince people to come to God. But it's so frequently done in such an unusual way, that it almost feels like they're intentionally pushing people away. 

Atheists don't frame themselves as the "lord of their life", so why are you trying to talk to them that way? 

One thing that was so wild to me, was listening to a lot of the creationist "rebuttals" against evolution. They were so bizarre, they didn't make any sense - a lot of it uses a framework that that doesn't exist either to a creationist or a non-creationist. Like a big one was arguing that evolution was made up, to convince people that they didn't need to be saved, because they were evolving to be perfect.  That doesn't make sense to an evolutionist, because there's no such thing as perfection when it comes to evolution. And it doesn't make sense to a creationist if you understood the anything about evolution - which is about change over generations- it's basically like arguing that being related to someone is enough to be perfect yourself.  

It is also a frequent problem where creationist will call completely unrelated subject matter to be "evolution" - as if evolution is some singular world view. There was some talk where someone was talking about all of these different parts of "evolution" where "star evolution" is part of the evolution world view, and abiogenesis is part of the evolution world view, and several completely unrelated topics.  

I don't have any issue with people being Christians - I've gone back and forth on it myself. I grew up a Lutheran. 

But I think it's important to have honest conversations about what things mean - not just picking and choosing definitions that are convenient to my world view. 

And I think it's important also to be respectful.  

Or maybe I have actually read the bible and understand it better?

Your God's evils actions according to the Bible:


* Tried to murder all life on Earth. - Noahs Flood.
* Killed 70,000 people with a plague because David ordered a census on the people. - Chronicles 21.
* God Destroys 60 cities so other people could live there, orders the death of innocent women and children. - Deuteronomy 3.
* God orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. - Judges 21.
* God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave. - Exodus 21.
* Child Abuse. - Judges 11:29.
* Bashing babies against rocks. - Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9.
* Sacrificing of peoples children. - Genesis 22:1. 


Yes. Your God is truly amazing and "good". (In reality your God according to the Bible is a genocidal maniac with no regard for human life or decency.)

And how DARE I say otherwise.

There is no evidence your Hell even exists.

You literally cannot threaten Atheists with your lies and fabricated fairy-tales without evidence.

There is actually many thousands of different religions.

Your false, unproven, non-existent God is just another one of many.

You cannot even prove why your cult should take priority over the next cult.

Stop spreading lies.
Literally everyone on this planet is born Atheist.

Atheist by it's very definition: "a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods."
Every child lacks a belief in God. Any God. All Gods. Every child is thus born an Atheist.

You didn't come out of your mothers vagina with your hands in prayer proclaiming "hail jeebus!" that's for sure.

There is evidence for the Big Bang. Don't be anti-evidence, anti-science.
https://www.nasa.gov/image-article/best-map-ever-of-universe/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background

Just remember... Science flies man to the moon.
Religion flies people into buildings.

Don't make baseless assertions without evidence.

I factually don't hate anyone.

I do make a mockery of their beliefs whenever they try to "preach" about them, which is my right in a free country.
You don't get to spread your ridiculous and evil cult without opposition in a vacuum chamber.

You claim not to hate people, yet call them "evil cultists" if they disagree with you. I don't know how that works, but whatever. Not going to waste my time trying to decipher it. As a forum moderator you should know better than this.

I am done with this conversation. Enjoy the rest of your day. Goodbye.

I don't hate the religious believer, I just hate the religion. (See what I did there? The exact thing religious fanatics have used against the LGBTQI community.)

Keep in mind, you started this when you said all non-beleivers were essentially going to hell, I just continued it and threw your evil book back at you.
You are NOT the victim here, so stop playing it, that's a narcissistic personality trait. 

Remember your Bible and God is not good.
Examples:
* Tried to murder all life on Earth. - Noahs Flood.
* Killed 70,000 people with a plague because David ordered a census on the people. - Chronicles 21.
* God Destroys 60 cities so other people could live there, orders the death of innocent women and children. - Deuteronomy 3.
* God orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. - Judges 21.
* God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave. - Exodus 21.
* Child Abuse. - Judges 11:29.
* Bashing babies against rocks. - Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9.
* Sacrificing of peoples children. - Genesis 22:1.

I would like to know how you can reason with yourself and proclaim how the above is nice, fair, equal and humane when it's not.

At least you know when you’ve been beaten in an argument, even if you did fail to accept the loss with any kind of grace.

Maybe “evil cultist” doesn't specifically describe you - I doubt you even knew those things were in the Bible, so how can we accuse you of accidentally worshipping a book that has such despicable things in it? In my experience, right-wing Christians rarely know what they follow. You're a vain pretender of knowledge, which is the heart of the definition of “ignoramus”. Is that more to your preference? Feel free to appeal. But I'll make my case below on that theme of ignorance, based on the content of your post:

“Nobody is born an atheist. An atheist is a person who believes that the universe came into existence from a magical firecracker (Big Bang) that appeared out of nowhere and exploded for no reason. Nobody is born believing that, they are indoctrinated into it.”

Not only is an atheist not a person who believes that the universe came into existence from a magical firecracker appearing out of nowhere and exploding for no reason, but neither is that what the Big Bang theory proposes. You have no fucking idea what you’re talking about, and yet proceed to argue still. This is what you call a straw man, that means it's your argument that you only pretend is ours.

Also, the Big Bang theory isn’t a belief you’re indoctrinated into. Rather, it’s a scientific theory formulated to explain the empirical data we have regarding our universe → and it gets updated as we discover new data.

And, by the way. I’m afraid, even if everything in the bible is true, you won’t be admitted into the Kingdom of Heaven - if you read your bible, you’ll see that Jesus rebukes sanctimonious hypocrites like you throughout the Gospels. Here's a cheat sheet for you with quotations from the Gospels and epistles, on a Christian website: https://www.christianwebsite.com/who-will-not-go-to-heaven-according-to-the-bible/

Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Permalite said:

“Your God's evils actions according to the Bible:

* Tried to murder all life on Earth. - Noahs Flood.
* Killed 70,000 people with a plague because David ordered a census on the people. - Chronicles 21.
* God Destroys 60 cities so other people could live there, orders the death of innocent women and children. - Deuteronomy 3.
* God orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. - Judges 21.
* God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave. - Exodus 21.
* Child Abuse. - Judges 11:29.
* Bashing babies against rocks. - Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9.
* Sacrificing of peoples children. - Genesis 22:1. 

Yes. Your God is truly amazing and "good". (In reality your God according to the Bible is a genocidal maniac with no regard for human life or decency.)”

There are two primary reasons why your argument is invalid:

First, you are conflating “murder” and “killing.” Both refer to the taking of life. But murder involves the killing of INNOCENT blood (e.g., abortion). That is always wrong, and God would never do that. Killing, on the other hand, can refer to justice, and it is not necessarily wrong. Examples of moral killing include capital punishment for a convicted criminal, individual self-defense when someone breaks into your home, national defense when the Allies fought against Hitler & the Nazis, and divine judgment by God upon sinful mankind. We see examples in the Bible of all of these. God cleansed the antediluvian earth via the global Flood, and He used the Israelites as His instrument to judge the evil inhabitants of Canaan. This is not “murder.” It’s divine judgment. Genesis 6:5-7 states, “The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. So the Lord said, ‘I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race  I have created – and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground – for I regret that I have made them.’”

Second, you are not making a distinction between “descriptive” and “prescriptive” language in the Bible. Descriptive language is merely describing accurately a historical event. God is not necessarily saying we must engage in that activity. Prescriptive language, on the other hand, like the Ten Commandments or Sermon on the Mount, are indeed rules that the believer should follow. 1 Chronicles 21:1-8 (abridged) states, “Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. So David said to Joab, ‘Go and count the Israelites.’ But Joab relied, ‘Why does my lord want to do this? Why should he bring guilt on Israel?’ The king’s word, however, overruled Joab. This command was evil in the sight of God; so he punished Israel. Then David said to God, ‘I have sinned greatly by doing this. Now, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing.’” This passage describes (not prescribes) the evil actions of Satan and King David. Nowhere does it reprimand God. And I fail to see how God is evil based on this passage. If anything, it contrasts the holiness of God with the sinfulness of mankind.

I don’t have the space to address all of your examples, but they are easily refuted. In fact, of all of your posts in this thread, I have not found one single compelling or convincing argument for atheism. You spew a lot of vulgar ad-hominem invective, but that is not evidence. You address strawman arguments that no one is making (e.g., Christians are anti-science. We are not anti-science; we are anti false scientific conclusions). You state opinions, without any supporting evidence, and pass them off as facts. You lump all religions & followers together, as if they were a monolith. You make non-sequitur arguments left & right. You don’t have the first clue about what the Bible teaches or says, yet you pass yourself off as some kind of expert. And you repeatedly make self-defeating statements (e.g., God is not moral), when the concept of “morality” is something atheists have to steal from God in order to attempt to prove His non-existence!

All I see when I look at your posts is your typical garden-variety angry, hateful atheist who is steeped in a life of sin. The Apostle Paul pegged atheists such as Permalite/Ryuu/Svenno perfectly when he wrote in Romans 1:18-32 (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, so these are the very words of God): “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.”

Your God literally did that in the Bible.

Killing 70,000 people via a plague because David ordered a census on the people?

It's fucking murder.

Bashing babies against rocks? All babies are innocent.

It's fucking murder.

So are you suggesting that the babies weren't bashed against rocks? That there was no slavery? That there wasn't child abuse? That Noahs flood didn't occur? 

Because that is definitely not what the Bible describes.

This is the issue with apololgetics like you... You take the Bible in a LITERAL interpretation to fit your own narrative when it's convenient... Then you TWIST the interpretation to fit your own agenda when it's not convenient.

I am sorry to say, but there are 100's of millions of Bible bashers across the entire planet who would disagree with you and your specific interprtation of your cults texts.

You have failed to refute anything.

If you disagree with Evolution, Abiogensis, Natural Selection, Big Bang, Climate Change and more... Then you are FACTUALLY anti-science.

Your first mistake is thinking I care what you think.

Your second mistake is thinking sin is even relevant, sin is a religious invention... Nor is your cults book a good judgement for what can/can't be regarded as "good or bad" anyway considering it has literal babies being bashed against rocks.

Thirdly... I am far from angry, I am just making a mockery of your silly fallacies... And you don't even realize it.
But hey, if you dislike my rebuttals so much, why not pray for us to stop?

1) Atheists predate your God.
2) Atheists predate your entire religion.
3) Everyone is born Atheist, you included.

The fact you attack Atheists, then whinge when it's returned in kind, tells us you suffer from some narcissistic tendencies.

Also... We don't need to prove your God doesn't exist... We have already stupidly been over the burden of proof and why we aren't required to disprove it... It's actually YOUR job to prove your God exists, you made the claim.

You can't even disprove the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist, so by your logic, do YOU think the flying spaghetti monster exists? It can't be disproven. Ever.

So am I to understand that these two justifications deal with all the issues in the bible. For examples 1 Samuel 15 where God commands the Israelites to kill noncombatants? 

"1 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”"

How do you think the above is justified? Seems like your answer is going to be that it is be definition not a killing of "innocent blood" because God decided they weren't innocent (even the infants) but you have to understand that it's a pretty unsatisfying answer from a non-believer point of view. You seem to be defining terms to give God a pass. Most would define murder as unjustifiable killing of another human being and killing children and infants would definitely fall into that category. 

As usual with this topics religious fanatics show up and try to spread their nonsense but when confronted with logic, facts and evidence they have to run away covering their ears leaving behind some passive-aggressive "I don't have time to answer all of this have a nice day I'll pray for you" or a variation of that.

My regards to people like pemalite, ryuu, svenno and others for being so good at debating and having such patience. Cheers!

Lol, I'm used to it, a former Christian user once essentially told me that I was going to Hell but said they'd pray for my soul, after an argument I was having with them, but I wish these extremists would be countered by other religious folk, I am not totally against religion despite my bad encounters, but these people give religion a bad name and when it's only Atheist countering their nonsense, it's a bit frustrating that no other religious folk will speak out, I made that whole post about how I'm fine with people believing and religion can be good in certain circumstances but then all you see is Christians coming in to tell us we're all going to Hell and blah blah, Lol.