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sundin13 said:
KLAMarine said:

There's zero mention of Shirley cards, ad just shows photos with poor lighting in them at the start. Then it contrasts them with photos with excellent amounts of lighting later in the same ad.

As for the savior talk, I'm referring to the whole vibe of the commercial: it feels like Google patting themselves on the back for phone camera tech that solves a problem that really just needed better lighting.

There's nothing wrong with a camera advertising that it is better at taking photos of dark skin. This is a good feature and something that has historically been an issue in photography, and no, it isn't just a problem that needs better lighting. I have gotten professionally lit photos taken like once in my life and even amateur photographers taking pics on their phone don't tend to have a problem capturing my face (I'm white, btw)...

Yeah, the before photos are bad (obviously) and the after photos look professional. Welcome to just about every before/after commercial since the dawn of time. 

The before photos in the ad DID need better lighting. It's manipulative when the before photos are sabotaged and the after photos are of course spared the same sabotage.

Last edited by KLAMarine - on 27 December 2024

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KLAMarine said:
sundin13 said:

There's nothing wrong with a camera advertising that it is better at taking photos of dark skin. This is a good feature and something that has historically been an issue in photography, and no, it isn't just a problem that needs better lighting. I have gotten professionally lit photos taken like once in my life and even amateur photographers taking pics on their phone don't tend to have a problem capturing my face (I'm white, btw)...

Yeah, the before photos are bad (obviously) and the after photos look professional. Welcome to just about every before/after commercial since the dawn of time. 

The before photos in the ad DID need better lighting. It's manipulative when the before photos are sabotaged and the after photos are of course spared the same sabotage.

That's how commercials work, bud. 

It's not the woke bogeyman, it's just advertising.



sundin13 said:
KLAMarine said:

The before photos in the ad DID need better lighting. It's manipulative when the before photos are sabotaged and the after photos are of course spared the same sabotage.

That's how commercials work, bud. 

It's not the woke bogeyman, it's just advertising.

I'm just giving what I consider to be 'woke' and Google's Pixel ad is an example. It feigns social consciousness when it's really just sleight of hand being used to sell a product.



KLAMarine said:
sundin13 said:

That's how commercials work, bud. 

It's not the woke bogeyman, it's just advertising.

I'm just giving what I consider to be 'woke' and Google's Pixel ad is an example. It feigns social consciousness when it's really just sleight of hand being used to sell a product.

Hmm, So you are now defining a new definition for woke.  Before it was stuff people did not like, now you are adding advertising to the list as well.  Its not like there are hundreds of ads that advertise to groups of people of different race, genders skin tones etc so why is this any different.  You say it feigns social consciousness but that isn't correct.  What it does is try to sell a feature that Google believes will target a group which is people with dark skin to buy their product. 

The fact you label this as woke seems like you will label anything woke that doesn't advertise to white people.  There are hair products, lotion, food, cloths just to name a few that advertise to non white people so would all of those be considered woke to you as well.



KLAMarine said:
sundin13 said:

That's how commercials work, bud. 

It's not the woke bogeyman, it's just advertising.

I'm just giving what I consider to be 'woke' and Google's Pixel ad is an example. It feigns social consciousness when it's really just sleight of hand being used to sell a product.

Funny when you think about it. 

If going woke = going broke, then why is it that companies are marketing to the woke crowd? 



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Machiavellian said:
KLAMarine said:

I'm just giving what I consider to be 'woke' and Google's Pixel ad is an example. It feigns social consciousness when it's really just sleight of hand being used to sell a product.

Hmm, So you are now defining a new definition for woke.  Before it was stuff people did not like, now you are adding advertising to the list as well.  Its not like there are hundreds of ads that advertise to groups of people of different race, genders skin tones etc so why is this any different.  You say it feigns social consciousness but that isn't correct.  What it does is try to sell a feature that Google believes will target a group which is people with dark skin to buy their product. 

The fact you label this as woke seems like you will label anything woke that doesn't advertise to white people.  There are hair products, lotion, food, cloths just to name a few that advertise to non white people so would all of those be considered woke to you as well.

The first photos Google shows in the ad had poor lighting. As a solution, Google sells some feature called real tone on their Pixel phone rather than tell their target audience that cameras need good lighting to take good pictures.

I view this like an insurance salesman selling volcano insurance in an area with no volcano close by. A dishonest salesman will show the horrors of volcano eruptions to their target audience and hide the fact that there is no volcano in the area.

I'm calling Google dishonest in the ad and to top this dishonesty off, they add a fake veneer of social consciousness to their marketing. I find this appeal-to-emotion marketing obnoxious. And while I dislike using the word 'woke', if I had to use it, this ad would qualify as 'woke' in my book.

To answer your question, no. Any product aimed at someone who isn't white is NOT what I consider 'woke'.

It's the deceptive element in Google's ad that I'm offended by.

Runa216 said:
KLAMarine said:

I'm just giving what I consider to be 'woke' and Google's Pixel ad is an example. It feigns social consciousness when it's really just sleight of hand being used to sell a product.

Funny when you think about it. 

If going woke = going broke, then why is it that companies are marketing to the woke crowd? 

For the record, I find the notion that 'going woke = going broke' to be nonsense. Plenty of companies have been accused of going 'woke' and are still plenty successful. For example, I can see RockStar being accused of 'going woke' with some of its releases and yet it continues to see greater heights of success.

The notion is stupid, business is more complicated than such a simple mantra.

To answer your question, companies appealing to a 'woke' crowd I feel is just them trying to appeal to emerging markets they feel might have untapped potential. It's nothing new for businesses to seek out new customers wherever they can.



Runa216 said:
KLAMarine said:

I'm just giving what I consider to be 'woke' and Google's Pixel ad is an example. It feigns social consciousness when it's really just sleight of hand being used to sell a product.

Funny when you think about it. 

If going woke = going broke, then why is it that companies are marketing to the woke crowd? 

I think some of it, is just being scared of the left side (the woke side) that love to toss labels at everyone and name call people.
These big companies don't want to be called racist or transphobic or whatever, so rather than risk that, they pander to them instead.
Look at SBI, the company lead, did a speech where she basically talked about going to HR, and mentioning this risk factor, as a easy way to get your DEI point across if you work at a company (it comes off, as basically threatening, to get consulting jobs).

Part of it is money lending, apparently you get like tax right offs, and have a easier time, borrowing money, if you put in DEI stuff.
Not sure what government funding projects or whatnot this is, but I've heard this mentioned before.

I think another part is just indoctrination.... alot of people are taught this stuff at universities, and come new off the market, thinking like this.
Plus I think, even if LGTBQA+ make up a small part of society,alot of people that get into graphic design and creative fields, are gay or lesbian, compaired to normal people. These people find jobs, in the games industry (someone has to make the graphics ect).  And they believe in this stuff, because alot of them are from that part of the community (or have friends from the field that are, so allies as they call themselves).

I think another part of it, is the people that get a kick out of owning the chuds.
Theres people just cant help come out on twitter saying stuff like "gamers are a mistake" "I want to punch these people" ect ect.
Alot of people, just view it as a job... and care nothing about how well the game sales do.  Their messaging in the game is more important than the profit the company makes.

So this is the why of it... Even if ultimately it might be counter productive to profit margins.



KLAMarine said:

The first photos Google shows in the ad had poor lighting. As a solution, Google sells some feature called real tone on their Pixel phone rather than tell their target audience that cameras need good lighting to take good pictures.

False.  

Camera technology is complicated. 

How you capture light, a lot of modern cameras even use AI to try getting the image to closer match what the person is actually seeing. 

How these cameras actually automatically focus on the image. 

There's a ton of processing that goes on for digital cameras. If you think it's as simple as "more light was all that was needed", then I don't know what to tell you. 

https://thisisghanchi.com/all-you-need-to-know-about-the-camera-color-science

"Color science is how a particular sensor, or brand of sensor, changes the colors it reproduces. Built into the camera’s sensor, color science is essentially an internal LUT, or Look Up Table.

It would be fair to ask why camera manufacturers would manipulate the colors coming off of the sensor. Why not just let the sensor capture the entire range of colors, giving everything to the photographer or filmmaker so they can manipulate it in post?

Some companies do this. RED cameras were “color neutral” for a long time until moving to a more subjective color space with IPP2. Sony still produces very accurately — some would say sterile — images."

"Why Canon, ARRI, and Panasonic cameras don’t produce “accurate” colors has to do with the physiology of color and the history of cinema. When ARRI designed their digital cinema camera (the Alexa), they weren’t trying to create accurate colors but, rather, colors that closely resembled those captured on 35mm film and chemical emulsion. This meant skin tones (where the yellows and reds shifted closer to orange, thereby flattening the skin, hiding color imperfections, and making skin tones) seemed more consistent."

"A camera’s color science is built into the capture chain of the camera. Some of the elements of color science are corrective, rather than aesthetic, which may be a result of the maker trying to compensate for tints in the IR filter, Optical Low-Pass Filter, or some other part of the image chain. The first Blackmagic Ursa mini cameras shipped with a noticeable magenta tint in the captured footage, but a subsequent firmware update corrected it."

Last edited by the-pi-guy - on 28 December 2024

KLAMarine said:

The first photos Google shows in the ad had poor lighting. As a solution, Google sells some feature called real tone on their Pixel phone rather than tell their target audience that cameras need good lighting to take good pictures.

I view this like an insurance salesman selling volcano insurance in an area with no volcano close by. A dishonest salesman will show the horrors of volcano eruptions to their target audience and hide the fact that there is no volcano in the area.

I'm calling Google dishonest in the ad and to top this dishonesty off, they add a fake veneer of social consciousness to their marketing. I find this appeal-to-emotion marketing obnoxious. And while I dislike using the word 'woke', if I had to use it, this ad would qualify as 'woke' in my book.

...Is it truly woke though? They aren't telling you to treat others differently, they aren't even telling you to accept minorities or socially progressive issues...

They are literally just selling a feature for their phones and they needed someone with a dark complexion to showcase that feature... How would you demonstrate that feature? Use a black cat at night? Or a white person? Probably not the same effect.

JRPGfan said:

Plus I think, even if LGTBQA+ make up a small part of society,alot of people that get into graphic design and creative fields, are gay or lesbian, compaired to normal people. These people find jobs, in the games industry (someone has to make the graphics ect).  And they believe in this stuff, because alot of them are from that part of the community (or have friends from the field that are, so allies as they call themselves).

I think this is a bit of a false generalization.

I am LGBTQI... I am a motorcycling riding, firefighter. - You can't get more toxic masculinity than that, I can put many straight, white, males to shame.
My partner is an Ambulance officer.

Most of the other LGBTQI people in my life are also first responders... Whether it's working at minesites, local services or interstate.

Art? You either have that aptitude or you don't. - I don't have an artistic bone in my body... And I couldn't think of anything more boring than graphics design or being "creative".

Consequently when I have used local businesses to make custom graphics kits for my motorcycles such as my Gold KLX Supermoto, they definitely were straight males... And they appreciated the design I was pushing for.

I don't doubt there is LGBTQI people in art/graphics design, but we aren't all stereotypical princesses who can't get their hands dirty, there is not a single industry LGBTQI people aren't a part of... Because we are people first, being gay/lesbian is just a minor aspect of who we are.

And that's the issue I find a lot of conservatives and progressives have, they only focus on the "gay" part of a gay man, they don't see anything else... Provided that LGBQI individual even discloses their label in the first place, many don't because there is to much baggage and bullshit that comes with it.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Kind of a side note.

I think it's overly easy in political threads to get arguably off topic. 

If you have a conversation about PlayStation, you might also talk about MS gaming and Nintendo to compare and contrast to Sony, to talk about their approaches to different things. To bolster the conversation about Sony. But it feels like that's a tighter subject matter.

But politics is ridiculously broad. What is a woke game pretty naturally becomes a conversation about what does woke mean; we're almost instantly talking about stuff that has nothing to do with games. A lot of these political threads feel like they've gone over a line to no longer being on topic, but I have no idea where the line should be. 

KLAMarine said:

As for the savior talk, I'm referring to the whole vibe of the commercial: it feels like Google patting themselves on the back for phone camera tech that solves a problem that really just needed better lighting.

Does anyone know what this is? It feels kind of strawman fallacy-y, but it feels different to me. 

Where you exaggerate something to make it seem silly, feels like a strawman fallacy. 

I've seen people act like being called racist is somehow worse than a death threat. And I've seen people act like doing a regular good deed is "savior" like material. There's this weird hyperbole where you act like something is being treated 100x more seriously than anyone in the world is treating it. 

Unless this is literally the first commercial you've ever seen, no one is watching that commercial thinking that Google is patting themselves on the back as some kind of savior. 

There are 5 million commercials that are patting themselves on the back for anything. Nike puts out commercials that make it seem like their shoes make someone an athlete. Plenty of tech companies put out commercials that make it seem like they're making history.