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Complaining about a franchise that had shit gameplay even by 90s 3D standard when it's only appeal was sex appeal (complete with CORE announcing a new Lara cosplayer every year) has finally evolved out of a horny 12-year-old male gaze phase is funny to me. Finally started evolving into a real franchise and that's when the 30-40-year-olds complained it was no longer appealing to their childlike hornyness. Get real



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

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Mar1217 said:
Jpcc86 said:

  what

Yes plz, someone elaborate on this never seen take before.

Anyway, like any linguistic short derogatory term that can be used by butching it's historical/straight up context definition, "woke" has essentially been lambasted as the default term used by a conservative ideologically aligned subset of people to represent their dislikes for the social feminist, LGBTQ+, black power movements of the 2010's unto today or anything that seem to closely resembles it.

So it's similar term to transphobia and misogyny. 



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

Ok, after reading the thread this far: yes, the term woke doesn't make sense at all, because it largely refers to "social justice" policies you see the "left" wing in the USA supporting. However, the policies or rhetoric demanding the policies are often self-contradicting: people say they want sexism to end and demand equality, but at the same time "historical wrongness" needs to be corrected, so as long as there's been more men than women in positions of power, we need to choose only women to positions of power. Women are oppressed in the muslim world, so western women need privileges to combat global inequality. Minorities aren't represented as much as the majority, so we need DEI hires to have equal representations. Society needs atheism, but it's islamophobia. And so on.

Someone mentioned that people don''t complain about woke when a game (or a movie) is good, and I agree on that one. That's largely because good games and movies tend not to make a number about it's character's otherness.
Had Alien been cosidered woke today? Likely yes, because it's impossible to tell when someone is given a lead role because of her sex and when not. However, today the Ripley we saw in Alien, had likely been like the one in Alien 4, which would make it woke. Nobody considered Jill Valentine and Claire Redfield woke either. Prince of Persia had some Iranian dude, Mario Bros had Italians and neither is considered woke. If Punch-out had been made today with the characters it has, everyone would be crying out loud how offensive it is.

In the end, If you want to see Europeans in movies, you need to watch European movies, If you want to see Africans in movies, you need to watch African movies, If you want to see Asians in movies, you need to watch Asian movies, If you want to see Americans on movies, tough luck; there's DEI hires with Asians, Africans and Europeans, with the occasional jew in them.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

JRPGfan said:
smroadkill15 said:

A woke game is whatever the anti woke crowd call woke. Doesn't matter if it makes sense or not. Anti woke say they want games and character that make sense, but call a game like South of Midnight woke because it stars a black women even though the setting makes perfect sense for this character. If any of you watched the video I posted, the guy makes a great point how the movie Aliens gets a pass from being woke because it a damn good movie from the 80s, but if it would have released this year, it would be considered woke. Same with Terminator 2 and plenty of other great older movies. It's the same way with older games get a pass because they are great, but would easily be called woke if released today.

They hired sweet baby inc... and the first thing they did was to race swap the main character.

She was originally a white lady.  Why? because SBI want more representation of black women in games.

Now it looks like they did this early in development, so it'll likely feel natural, and not forced.

But the team that made the game, had a vision that had a main character that was different than she ended up being, because of sweet baby inc.

According to Grummz...How have you not learnt by now that Grummz is a grifting bullshitter making shit up for attention? He doesn't know shit, Grummz is the same moron who tried to spread that "EA NDA" which was clearly nonsense and had basic spelling mistakes, Grummz is in the industry, he knows what an NDA looks like, but he spread that bullshit because he wanted to attack Dragon Age and carry on his grift.

Yes, SBI is involved in South of Midnight because they are a consultancy agency focused on how to include minority characters with care, stop acting like they write the entire stories, Lol. Of course they are involved in a game which features a black lead in the deep south, choke full of African-American folklore and Gullah culture. The developer team at Compulsion Games is almost entirely white and based in Canada, it should be a GOOD thing that they're hiring a consultancy agency to help them write better about other cultures and make it a more authentic experience.

If it wasn't SBI involved it would be a different consultancy agency because guess what? There's dozens of them, SBI is just the current target of peoples grift. It's the exact same as when developers hire consultancy agencies if they're telling a story about another country. Everything about SoM screams "American-Southern Black Culture" it's not just a character change, it has always made sense for Hazel to be black since conception.

The same people are complaining about Assassin's Creed apparently getting things wrong about Japan like that insensitive thing about the collector's edition, well maybe if Ubisoft hired a consultancy agency like South of Midnight they wouldn't have made these mistakes. You know, like Sucker Punch did when they made Ghost of Tsushima, now suddenly hiring consultancy agencies is a bad thing? Oh sorry, only if the consultancy agency is focused on black characters.

This is the only proof I can find that they "race-swapped" Hazel is this.

Some 3D model which is very clearly, very early in development, likely pre-production, I don't believe it's even confirmed it's Compulsion Games model considering Grummz isn't above spreading lies, but you can also see clearly by her clothes that she likely isn't even in the same setting or era, the clothes look more medieval or colonial so whatever this was, if it was South of Midnight, was likely before the game even entered production, was likely a completely different idea of a game and was made during the prototype stages where they were deciding on what type of game they wanted to make, you know, completely normal development stuff, Lol.

We've known South of Midnight has had a black protagonist since as early 2021 thanks to Jez Corden leaking a concept art.

 

So whatever that Hazel model is predates 2021 at minimum, if she is Compulsion's model, so it was likely created during the concept/ideas phase when they were deciding on what sort of game they wanted to make, they likely had multiple ideas of what games they wanted to make, this is completely normal development stuff, until they eventually settled on wanting to tell a story about Southern America-Black culture and then would have been the point they brought SBI onboard to help them tell the story in an authentic and respectful way.

There's absolutely zero proof that SBI came in and was like "RIGHT. YOU AREN'T TELLING THIS STORY. MAKE THIS CHARACTER BLACK. CHANGE YOUR ENTIRE GAME" Lmao. This is not just a character change, the entire game is Black culture focused so it must have been that focus since near the start. Again, we've known SoM was focused on Southern-Black America since as early as 2021 leaks. You also remember that Compulsion Games is owned by Microsoft right? Stop acting like some 15 employee studio can push around billion dollar corps

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 17 December 2024

The problem with the term "woke" is that it means different things to different people; and age and location and greatly chnage it's meaning.

To me someone who is "woke" is someone that views many aspects of life through the lens of identity, and blanket applies that thinking to what they do and say.

But there is also a lot of intersection with other parts of life and like many other things, tribalism plays it's part.

People who self apply the "woke" tag to themself, more than likely also tag themselves with such labels as "left wing", and claim to be in support of BLM, Palestine and trans issues.
-------------------
To me that's the assumption I'd make about a person that labels themselves as "woke". Maybe if you are a different age to me, or live in a different part of the world, you'd see things differently, and to me that's the problem.

Some people seem to wear "Woke" as a badge of honor, some people use the term a slur. I can see the reasons for both.
----------------------
I'd probably avoid someone who labeled themself as "woke", but then again I'd avoid people that claim to be "left wing" or "right wing", as I find the entire concept of having a pre-conditioned mindset towards lifes problems before you even know what they are as utterly insane.

I mean really, how can you properly tackle any issue if you are already committed to either an individualist or collectivist mindset. Each problem requires a bespoke solution, there is no one size fits all way of doing things..
-------------
So to answer the topic question of "what is a Woke game"?

Well depends on who is giving it that label. Is it the developer? Is it another player? Because if it's another player, it's more than likely mostly projection rather than anything else.



Sony want to make money by selling art, Nintendo want to make money by selling fun, Microsoft want to make money.

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JRPGfan said:

They hired sweet baby inc... and the first thing they did was to race swap the main character.
She was originally a white lady.  Why? because SBI want more representation of black women in games.
Now it looks like they did this early in development, so it'll likely feel natural, and not forced.

But the team that made the game, had a vision that had a main character that was different than she ended up being, because of sweet baby inc.
Its a pattern.... this isn't the first game, where Sweet baby inc, gets onboard, and they change the main character (by race swapping them).
(flintlock main lead was a white dude, until SBI came in)

My Uncle at Microsoft says this isn't true.

What I'm really saying is that there's an entire meme family about people making up stories in the gaming industry for notoriety. People put in effort to create fake Nintendo Switches, fake mockups of gaming announcements. 

Don't believe everything you read.

Especially from a person who has already been called out for spreading BS. 

JRPGfan said:

How do we know this stuff? insiders at the companies that aren't onboard with the changes made, but dare not speak up, again it.
You get labeled a lot of names, by the woke crowd if you say you don't agree with their ideologies or reasoning. 
(these inclusive groups, sure like to kick out, everyone who doesn't bow down to them)

Its to the point were people inside these companies don't dare talk about it there, and instead talk to these "grifters" online, to get their messaging out.
(this was a issue at ubisoft, with veilguard.... insiders talk about a corporate culture, where there is no debate, you get black listed if you speak out)

So while I can understand, you dislike that there are people making videos about the matter, and maybe even profiting off of views.
Where else will this debate take place? if society and companies black list anyone who speaks out against it?

Isn't that convenient for you? Some alleged unknown persons with no evidence of them even existing has said something controversial.

I legitimately don't understand how you people believe in these things. Even when there's a report about Trump saying something that is in line with other things he has said, I try to find actual video of him saying that thing. 

And you guys believe stuff that makes absolutely no sense, based off anonymous people who don't even bother giving any kind of evidence; given to you guys from people who are already known liars for the purpose of starting controversy.

JRPGfan said:


Why does it take the anti woke side to point out these issues?
You guys don't think there is anything wrong with this?

A lot of these things do get talked about. The "woke" people do talk about characterizations that are messed up, they do complain about character editors giving bad options. 

If you don't think they talk about these things, you're just hanging out in the wrong crowds. 

They focus on different issues, and they talk about things in different ways. They're not going to invent a narrative that there's a secret consulting company that must really hate women with small cleavage, because of reasons. They're not going to act like it's the fall of humanity if a character editor doesn't have an option for large cleavage, even if that's something they really want. (Surprise - a lot of left wingers are straight men.)



On the topic of the counterpoint that keeps coming up, and I say this as someone who thinks what Rowling says about Trans people is wrong, dangerous, and stupid: Anti-Harry Potter discourse is very stupid. Like I swear at times they are just trying to find something to complain about at times.

However my own two cents is that there's a difference between believing that promoting a creator who has derogatory views about Trans People is bad, and being upset that a game has pronouns or gay people in it. The people who shout Woke are upset about something having something in it, while the Rowling discourse is closer in kin to someone who, say, won't buy Rurouni Kenshin manga because the creator was convinced for possessing child pornography.



The Democratic Nintendo fan....is that a paradox? I'm fond of one of the more conservative companies in the industry, but I vote Liberally and view myself that way 90% of the time?

JRPGfan said:
smroadkill15 said:

A woke game is whatever the anti woke crowd call woke. Doesn't matter if it makes sense or not. Anti woke say they want games and character that make sense, but call a game like South of Midnight woke because it stars a black women even though the setting makes perfect sense for this character. If any of you watched the video I posted, the guy makes a great point how the movie Aliens gets a pass from being woke because it a damn good movie from the 80s, but if it would have released this year, it would be considered woke. Same with Terminator 2 and plenty of other great older movies. It's the same way with older games get a pass because they are great, but would easily be called woke if released today.

They hired sweet baby inc... and the first thing they did was to race swap the main character.
She was originally a white lady.  Why? because SBI want more representation of black women in games.
Now it looks like they did this early in development, so it'll likely feel natural, and not forced.

But the team that made the game, had a vision that had a main character that was different than she ended up being, because of sweet baby inc.
Its a pattern.... this isn't the first game, where Sweet baby inc, gets onboard, and they change the main character (by race swapping them).
(flintlock main lead was a white dude, until SBI came in)

How do we know this stuff? insiders at the companies that aren't onboard with the changes made, but dare not speak up, again it.
You get labeled a lot of names, by the woke crowd if you say you don't agree with their ideologies or reasoning. 
(these inclusive groups, sure like to kick out, everyone who doesn't bow down to them)

Its to the point were people inside these companies don't dare talk about it there, and instead talk to these "grifters" online, to get their messaging out.
(this was a issue at ubisoft, with veilguard.... insiders talk about a corporate culture, where there is no debate, you get black listed if you speak out)

So while I can understand, you dislike that there are people making videos about the matter, and maybe even profiting off of views.
Where else will this debate take place? if society and companies black list anyone who speaks out against it?


"Aliens gets a pass from being woke because it a damn good movie from the 80s, but if it would have released this year, it would be considered woke. Same with Terminator 2 and plenty of other great older movies. It's the same way with older games get a pass because they are great, but would easily be called woke if released today."

That is just straight up a lie.

Old games and movies, used to have characters written and made, for them, where they logically fit in.
Now, a consultant company comes in, and just force race and gender swaps characters.
No one hates badass female characters. No one, there is a long history of movies with badass female leads.
These were never woke, or will be, because of a female character.

Take Lara Croft.
She used to be Book Smart, Athletic, good with her aim (guns, to make up for your lack of strength vs guys, a gun is the ultimate equalizer).
She was a female Indiana Jones.. she didn't need a whip... she was graceful and acrobatic instead.  She was just a strong woman.
She had alot of feminine traits.

New Lara Croft.
Shes no book smart anymore, she doesn't raid tombs (that's offensive to the people these belonged too, now) (despite the IP's name).
Shes not acrobatic anymore, shes a body builder, that beats up guys with her fists. Shes lesbian (in the tv series), and spends half the show crying about it.  Shes a weak woman (mentally)... who isn't very feminine.  


Why did they change her that much?
Why does this happen so often? women seemingly need to be muscle bound freaks, with strong jawlines.
What happened to appreciating the feminine?  Like is it wrong to be a normal woman?
In DA Veilguard, the breast slider doesn't go past a A-cup size.  In real life, women come in all shapes and sizes.
They wont allow you to make a natural looking woman there. However they will allow you to add top surgery scars ?

Why does it take the anti woke side to point out these issues?
You guys don't think there is anything wrong with this?

You do understand games go through iterations? The original ideas and characters change throughout development. Do you know if the original setting was the American deep south or something else entirely? If Grummz is the source of these claims, this more than enough of a reason to be skeptical. Can you prove Sweey Baby Inc. came in and changed the character? 

As far as the Aliens example, it's not a lie. You simply don't want to acknowledge it. Plenty of characters are written and made for varies roles and still called woke all the time. 

You admit you haven't watched the recent Lara Croft show, and simply repeating what some content creator said. Maybe watch the show your self instead of listening to someone who's entire social media presence is to nit pick content because it's apparently woke. 



It's amusing because reading some comments on the internet one would get the feeling that SBI is some menacing censor with actual power instead of one of many consulting firms that makes recommendations that the developer can just throw in the trash.

Meanwhile, the game that did get politically vetted in terms of content (by actual, definitely not-imaginary communists, no less) ended up being one of their favorite games this year (for some reason).



 

 

 

 

 

bdbdbd said:

If you want to see Americans on movies, tough luck; there's DEI hires with Asians, Africans and Europeans, with the occasional jew in them.

So, if Asians, Africans, Europeans and Jews can't qualify as Americans, who exactly can?