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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Will the Switch 2 finally be powerful enough and popular enough to get Nintendo all the top games?

Chrkeller said:
HoloDust said:

Honestly, it seems to me that right about every game made for PS5 is still pretty much capable of running on PS4, even those very few that are not on PS4 - at this moment it comes down to "why port" and not "if it can run?" - for PS4 it has less sense with every passing day and every new PS5 sold, but for Switch 2, it will come down to expected ROIs...mostly.

I keep coming back again and again to Hogwarts Legacy, that game is on everything, both current and last gen (apart from WiiU), and while it looks...well, rough...on Switch, it apparently sold quite good (I wasn't able to find any real data, except for articles about selling really good). So yeah, in the end, it always comes down to whether the publishers are willing to do it, not if they can.

I think that has been absolutely true so far this generation, especially since most ps5 games had a 60 fps.  One of the easiest ways to drop memory bandwidth requirements is to drop fps.

What I find curious is there are a handful of future games all capped at 30 fps.  That indicates to me, finally, we are going to start seeing games that would be very hard to port to the ps4.  Saving bandwidth by reducing fps appears to be going away.  

As I said, once again, I'll bring Hogwarts Legacy into the mix:

PS5 has several gfx modes, in highest one it runs @30fps. Some things (like water) in Switch version look quite bad (in what is otherwise quite descent port), but bottom line is that if publishers are willing, and think that it will make them money (which WB obviously did and it had), they will make a port.
If they were capable of making Switch ports, I doubt, technically, they will have much problems making ports for Switch 2.

I suspect 10th Gen PS/XB will have hardware that will be very Ray Tracing oriented, and that there might be no non-RT versions of games by that time - we're talking several years into 10th Gen, after all cross-gen titles are released and games are only made for 10th Gen. That is something I can see being very hard to port to Switch 2, but by that time (I'm thinking 2030-31), we'll probably have Switch 3.



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HoloDust said:
Chrkeller said:

I think that has been absolutely true so far this generation, especially since most ps5 games had a 60 fps.  One of the easiest ways to drop memory bandwidth requirements is to drop fps.

What I find curious is there are a handful of future games all capped at 30 fps.  That indicates to me, finally, we are going to start seeing games that would be very hard to port to the ps4.  Saving bandwidth by reducing fps appears to be going away.  

As I said, once again, I'll bring Hogwarts Legacy into the mix:

PS5 has several gfx modes, in highest one it runs @30fps. Some things (like water) in Switch version look quite bad (in what is otherwise quite descent port), but bottom line is that if publishers are willing, and think that it will make them money (which WB obviously did and it had), they will make a port.
If they were capable of making Switch ports, I doubt, technically, they will have much problems making ports for Switch 2.

I suspect 10th Gen PS/XB will have hardware that will be very Ray Tracing oriented, and that there might be no non-RT versions of games by that time - we're talking several years into 10th Gen, after all cross-gen titles are released and games are only made for 10th Gen. That is something I can see being very hard to port to Switch 2, but by that time (I'm thinking 2030-31), we'll probably have Switch 3.

It is a fair point and I can't disagree.  And this is where I think Nintendo's porting studio could be really impactful.  And honestly, ps4 games still look and play great.  GoW 2018, sure it isn't Black Myth, but it still is stunning.  

Personally, I am not worried about RT, at least not real RT.  Real RT damn near breaks my 4090.  Consoles are not doing real RT anytime soon.  



i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

Where there's a will, there's a way; even beyond ports like Hogwarts Legacy on the current Switch, there's a long history of games being crammed into hardware far weaker than they were designed for if the publisher decides to make the effort; Doom on SNES, the 7th gen COD games on Wii, Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 on original Xbox, etc.

More than hardware power, it comes down to how much effort and resources the publisher is willing to invest to make it happen; after the enormous success of the Switch, third parties will likely be approaching the successor with a lot more enthusiasm than they initially did the Switch.



Chrkeller said:
HoloDust said:

As I said, once again, I'll bring Hogwarts Legacy into the mix:

PS5 has several gfx modes, in highest one it runs @30fps. Some things (like water) in Switch version look quite bad (in what is otherwise quite descent port), but bottom line is that if publishers are willing, and think that it will make them money (which WB obviously did and it had), they will make a port.
If they were capable of making Switch ports, I doubt, technically, they will have much problems making ports for Switch 2.

I suspect 10th Gen PS/XB will have hardware that will be very Ray Tracing oriented, and that there might be no non-RT versions of games by that time - we're talking several years into 10th Gen, after all cross-gen titles are released and games are only made for 10th Gen. That is something I can see being very hard to port to Switch 2, but by that time (I'm thinking 2030-31), we'll probably have Switch 3.

It is a fair point and I can't disagree.  And this is where I think Nintendo's porting studio could be really impactful.  And honestly, ps4 games still look and play great.  GoW 2018, sure it isn't Black Myth, but it still is stunning.  

Personally, I am not worried about RT, at least not real RT.  Real RT damn near breaks my 4090.  Consoles are not doing real RT anytime soon.  

4090 is very fine card. But I think by the time 10th Gen PS/XB release, we' be into nVidia's 60, or maybe even 70 generation (and AMD/Intel equivalents) - I fully expect those consoles to be built around path-tracing.

Unless completely new trend comes along and fundamentally changes everything (AI generates playable DOOM without any engine):



HoloDust said:
Chrkeller said:

It is a fair point and I can't disagree.  And this is where I think Nintendo's porting studio could be really impactful.  And honestly, ps4 games still look and play great.  GoW 2018, sure it isn't Black Myth, but it still is stunning.  

Personally, I am not worried about RT, at least not real RT.  Real RT damn near breaks my 4090.  Consoles are not doing real RT anytime soon.  

4090 is very fine card. But I think by the time 10th Gen PS/XB release, we' be into nVidia's 60, or maybe even 70 generation (and AMD/Intel equivalents) - I fully expect those consoles to be built around path-tracing.

Unless completely new trend comes along and fundamentally changes everything (AI generates playable DOOM without any engine):

I hope you are right, because real RT is crazy impressive.  It looks just mind blowing.  I just don't use it often because I drop from 120 fps locked to 40-60 fps real quick.  But you are right, it will get better with newer cards.  



i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

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Chrkeller said:
HoloDust said:

4090 is very fine card. But I think by the time 10th Gen PS/XB release, we' be into nVidia's 60, or maybe even 70 generation (and AMD/Intel equivalents) - I fully expect those consoles to be built around path-tracing.

Unless completely new trend comes along and fundamentally changes everything (AI generates playable DOOM without any engine):

I hope you are right, because real RT is crazy impressive.  It looks just mind blowing.  I just don't use it often because I drop from 120 fps locked to 40-60 fps real quick.  But you are right, it will get better with newer cards.  

I don't really bother with Ray Tracing, too much hit on performance for what are often minuscule visual improvements over only rasterized game, but Path Tracing, done properly, can really change how the game looks.



HoloDust said:

Technically speaking, I think yes - if anything, Hogwarts Legacy running on Switch is proof that if you strip the game down enough, it can run on quite weak hardware. Switch 2 being significant step up (presumably) from Switch should handle ports just fine.

But that part has always seemingly been the main issue. The extra development that goes into making the games function in an acceptable way. If it's just a matter of "turning down sliders" then there should be no problem. Eiyuden Chronicles developer cited the reason for a Switch port being difficult is that the different coding language essentially means they have to re-code the entire game. Presumably its a mix of coding and performance adjustments that turned third party publishers off. Because Switch 2 should still be ARM based. But perhaps there are better tools today for translating the code.

When it comes to performance balancing, Switch 2 should be in a better position than Switch 1 was because there are tools and shortcuts to help with that today, such as DLSS.

Last edited by Hiku - on 30 August 2024

I think Switch 2 will be getting vast majority of third party games. Of course DLSS will be doing a lot to save image quality, and 12 GB of RAM will be plenty to make sure games don't run out of memory.



Radek said:

I think Switch 2 will be getting vast majority of third party games. Of course DLSS will be doing a lot to save image quality, and 12 GB of RAM will be plenty to make sure games don't run out of memory.

I actually think 12 gb is a bit too low.  Steam Deck is 16 gb.  Rog Ally X is 24 gb.  People point out GPUs that are 8 to 12 gb, but computers also have additional system ram (usually 16-32 gb), and the vram is way higher in memory bandwidth (3050 is 2x what the switch 2 will be + system ram).  The series S is often highlighted as being 10 gb, but comparative to the Switch 2, it has literally 2x the memory bandwidth, in a broad/generic/illustrative way the Series S versus Switch 2 is 20 gb versus 12 gb.  

I'm rambling a bit, but 12 gb is meh.  I am hoping the rumors are wrong and it is 16 gb.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 30 August 2024

i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

Chrkeller said:
Radek said:

I think Switch 2 will be getting vast majority of third party games. Of course DLSS will be doing a lot to save image quality, and 12 GB of RAM will be plenty to make sure games don't run out of memory.

I actually think 12 gb is a bit too low.  Steam Deck is 16 gb.  Rog Ally X is 24 gb.  People point out GPUs that are 8 to 12 gb, but computers also have additional system ram (usually 16-32 gb).  The series S is often highlighted as being 10 gb, but comparative to the Switch 2, it has literally 2x the memory bandwidth, in a broad/generic/illustrative way the Series S versus Switch 2 is 20 gb versus 12 gb.  

I'm rambling a bit, but 12 gb is meh.  I am hoping the rumors are wrong and it is 16 gb.  

Series S only has 8 GB for games, Switch 2 will have at least 10 GB for games (2 GB for system) it will be enough for sure. 16 GB sounds way too optimistic.