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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Will the Switch 2 finally be powerful enough and popular enough to get Nintendo all the top games?

Chrkeller said:
curl-6 said:

I was referring to the fact that the Switch's GPU and RAM are clocked substantially higher in docked mode than portable. This is how most Switch games run at a much higher resolution (and often with other improved settings) in docked mode compared to portable.

I could be wrong, but as far as I'm aware, Steam Deck does not increase its performance when connected to a screen in this way. So Switch 2 should have a leg up over Steam Deck in this department.

Yeah I got you.  When I hear "overclock" I think pushing clock speeds higher than manufacturing recommendations.  

And yeah, the dock via proper cooling should allow higher clock speed than mobile mode.  It could help a lot.  I could see docked mode being at expected speeds and I could see it resulting in some very solid performance gains.  I can't remember the exact number but I thought the switch was under clocked by 30%?  

Ah yeah, my bad for using the wrong terminology, higher clocks is all I meant to say.

The current Switch runs at 768MHz when docked, while in portable mode there are three power profiles; 307.2MHz, 384MHz, and 460MHz.

So the highest portable clocks are around about 60% of docked mode, while the lowest portable speed is about 40% of docked mode.

RAM also goes from 1331.2MHz in portable to 1600Mhz in docked mode.



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curl-6 said:
Chrkeller said:

Yeah I got you.  When I hear "overclock" I think pushing clock speeds higher than manufacturing recommendations.  

And yeah, the dock via proper cooling should allow higher clock speed than mobile mode.  It could help a lot.  I could see docked mode being at expected speeds and I could see it resulting in some very solid performance gains.  I can't remember the exact number but I thought the switch was under clocked by 30%?  

Ah yeah, my bad for using the wrong terminology, higher clocks is all I meant to say.

The current Switch runs at 768MHz when docked, while in portable mode there are three power profiles; 307.2MHz, 384MHz, and 460MHz.

So the highest portable clocks are around about 60% of docked mode, while the lowest portable speed is about 40% of docked mode.

RAM also goes from 1331.2MHz in portable to 1600Mhz in docked mode.

It is all good my friend.  It is easy to use the wrong words in written form, we all do it, including myself.  Which is why it is better to seek clarity versus jumping the gun.  

I'm surprised we don't see a bigger improvement when playing docked.  Those are some pretty big differences in clock speed.  Outside a minor resolution improvement I'm not aware of docked mode doing much for the current Switch.



Chrkeller said:
curl-6 said:

Ah yeah, my bad for using the wrong terminology, higher clocks is all I meant to say.

The current Switch runs at 768MHz when docked, while in portable mode there are three power profiles; 307.2MHz, 384MHz, and 460MHz.

So the highest portable clocks are around about 60% of docked mode, while the lowest portable speed is about 40% of docked mode.

RAM also goes from 1331.2MHz in portable to 1600Mhz in docked mode.

It is all good my friend.  It is easy to use the wrong words in written form, I we all do it.  

I'm surprised we don't see a bigger improvement when playing docked.  Those are some pretty big differences in clock speed.  

A lot of games on Switch go from 720p portable to 1080p docked; that's a 2.25 times increase in pixel count. Stuff like shadows or draw distance are also sometimes better in docked mode.

The visible difference just seems less because the lower resolutions in portable mode are mitigated somewhat by the smaller screen.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 04 September 2024

curl-6 said:
Chrkeller said:

It is all good my friend.  It is easy to use the wrong words in written form, I we all do it.  

I'm surprised we don't see a bigger improvement when playing docked.  Those are some pretty big differences in clock speed.  

A lot of games on Switch go from 720p portable to 1080p docked; that's a 2.25 times increase in pixel count. Stuff like shadows or draw distance are also sometimes better in docked mode.

The visible difference just seems less because the lower resolutions in portable mode are mitigated somewhat by the smaller screen.

Fair point.  720p on a 7 inch has good density.  1080p on a 55 inch, not so much.  I believe native 1440p is the sweet spot for TV play.  



Chrkeller said:
curl-6 said:

A lot of games on Switch go from 720p portable to 1080p docked; that's a 2.25 times increase in pixel count. Stuff like shadows or draw distance are also sometimes better in docked mode.

The visible difference just seems less because the lower resolutions in portable mode are mitigated somewhat by the smaller screen.

Fair point.  720p on a 7 inch has good density.  1080p on a 55 inch, not so much.  I believe native 1440p is the sweet spot for TV play.  

It will be interesting to see where Switch 2 lands in docked mode; 1080p made sense for the current Switch, for a device of its power level releasing in the time of PS4 and Xbox One. For its successor, launching presumably in 2025 and with a generational leap in power, you'd expect significantly higher.

Complicating matters is the possibility it employs DLSS.

Gonna be interesting to see for sure.



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curl-6 said:
Chrkeller said:

Fair point.  720p on a 7 inch has good density.  1080p on a 55 inch, not so much.  I believe native 1440p is the sweet spot for TV play.  

It will be interesting to see where Switch 2 lands in docked mode; 1080p made sense for the current Switch, for a device of its power level releasing in the time of PS4 and Xbox One. For its successor, launching presumably in 2025 and with a generational leap in power, you'd expect significantly higher.

Complicating matters is the possibility it employs DLSS.

Gonna be interesting to see for sure.

Nintendo games are not technically impressive, I mean that as a compliment.  Nintendo tends to push art and style.  Style will always, IMO, trump technical.  I still think WWHD is the "best" looking game I have played.  Tales of Arise is stunning, but not technically impressive. 

Given the specs of the S2, roughly a 2050, I think Nintendo 1st party could hit 1440p native with DLSS to 4k, at 60 fps (on average, there will be variance based on game, Xenoblade might be 30 fps).  I think this is plenty good.  I recently played Wind Waker HD on CEMU scaled to 4k, it was beautiful.  

Indie and AA should look amazing on the S2 as well, no reason they can't hit good resolution and fps.  AAA is the only question mark, that is where developer effort and personal preference comes into play.  I just personal loathe 30 fps and will avoid third party games on the S2 that are significantly lower fps compared to other platforms.    



curl-6 said:
Chrkeller said:

Fair point.  720p on a 7 inch has good density.  1080p on a 55 inch, not so much.  I believe native 1440p is the sweet spot for TV play.  

It will be interesting to see where Switch 2 lands in docked mode; 1080p made sense for the current Switch, for a device of its power level releasing in the time of PS4 and Xbox One. For its successor, launching presumably in 2025 and with a generational leap in power, you'd expect significantly higher.

Complicating matters is the possibility it employs DLSS.

Gonna be interesting to see for sure.

I'll chime in for DLSS - it is not a miracle solution, but it's really, really good. My kid's rig is based around RTX3060, they often opt to play at 40inch 1080p TV from 2 meters away (they just swivel the chair 90 degrees from monitor) and use DLSS Quality a lot in recent titles, which renders at 720p and then upscales for 1080p output - and surprisingly, that looks absolutely fine, so I'd say we'll see lot of that when really demanding 3rd party ports hit SW2.



HoloDust said:
curl-6 said:

It will be interesting to see where Switch 2 lands in docked mode; 1080p made sense for the current Switch, for a device of its power level releasing in the time of PS4 and Xbox One. For its successor, launching presumably in 2025 and with a generational leap in power, you'd expect significantly higher.

Complicating matters is the possibility it employs DLSS.

Gonna be interesting to see for sure.

I'll chime in for DLSS - it is not a miracle solution, but it's really, really good. My kid's rig is based around RTX3060, they often opt to play at 40inch 1080p TV from 2 meters away (they just swivel the chair 90 degrees from monitor) and use DLSS Quality a lot in recent titles, which renders at 720p and then upscales for 1080p output - and surprisingly, that looks absolutely fine, so I'd say we'll see lot of that when really demanding 3rd party ports hit SW2.

My experience aligns with yours.  I think DLSS works really well for 720p rendering (or better).  It loses quality quickly when going from super low, like 540p, to 1080p.  

I'll add, I absolutely cannot tell the difference between 4K quality and native 4k.  I just cannot.  It is a great benefit to gaming to get a 4k image without wasting the resources.  Though to be fair, IMO, the difference between 4k and 1440p is negligible on a 55-inch screen.  Perhaps on massive 75-inch screens there is a difference, but 1440p (for most people) seems more than enough. 

Personally, I think the resolution wars need to stop, and developers should focus on fps.  Given a choice between 4k at 60 fps or 1440p at 120 fps...  the latter all day long.  



Chrkeller said:
HoloDust said:

I'll chime in for DLSS - it is not a miracle solution, but it's really, really good. My kid's rig is based around RTX3060, they often opt to play at 40inch 1080p TV from 2 meters away (they just swivel the chair 90 degrees from monitor) and use DLSS Quality a lot in recent titles, which renders at 720p and then upscales for 1080p output - and surprisingly, that looks absolutely fine, so I'd say we'll see lot of that when really demanding 3rd party ports hit SW2.

My experience aligns with yours.  I think DLSS works really well for 720p rendering (or better).  It loses quality quickly when going from super low, like 540p, to 1080p.  

I'll add, I absolutely cannot tell the difference between 4K quality and native 4k.  I just cannot.  It is a great benefit to gaming to get a 4k image without wasting the resources.  Though to be fair, IMO, the difference between 4k and 1440p is negligible on a 55-inch screen.  Perhaps on massive 75-inch screens there is a difference, but 1440p (for most people) seems more than enough. 

Personally, I think the resolution wars need to stop, and developers should focus on fps.  Given a choice between 4k at 60 fps or 1440p at 120 fps...  the latter all day long.  

I remember there were some tests (subjective of course) where in many titles, folks preferred 4K DLSS Quality over 4K Native. So yeah, wasting GPU/CPU resources on 4K native is silly with such a good upscaler tech. I think we'll see lot more of what Ubi did for Star Wars Outlaws, putting upscaler into official system recommendations for game.



HoloDust said:
Chrkeller said:

My experience aligns with yours.  I think DLSS works really well for 720p rendering (or better).  It loses quality quickly when going from super low, like 540p, to 1080p.  

I'll add, I absolutely cannot tell the difference between 4K quality and native 4k.  I just cannot.  It is a great benefit to gaming to get a 4k image without wasting the resources.  Though to be fair, IMO, the difference between 4k and 1440p is negligible on a 55-inch screen.  Perhaps on massive 75-inch screens there is a difference, but 1440p (for most people) seems more than enough. 

Personally, I think the resolution wars need to stop, and developers should focus on fps.  Given a choice between 4k at 60 fps or 1440p at 120 fps...  the latter all day long.  

I remember there were some tests (subjective of course) where in many titles, folks preferred 4K DLSS Quality over 4K Native. So yeah, wasting GPU/CPU resources on 4K native is silly with such a good upscaler tech. I think we'll see lot more of what Ubi did for Star Wars Outlaws, putting upscaler into official system recommendations for game.

If I were going to be super picky, only issue I have ever seen with DLSS 1440p to 4k was last of us part 1.  Metal railing in the distance shimmered a bit.  But that is a very poor port and being super picky.  I mean who cares if a railing 300 ft away has a slight shimmer when DLSS took me from 60-80 fps to 110-120 fps?

No issues with any other game.  In fact, quite often, I run 1440p DLSS to 4k even if my rig can do native.  It keeps temps way down and the rig runs super quiet.