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Forums - Politics Discussion - 2024 US Presidential Election

IkePoR said:
LurkerJ said:

Well, yeah. What did you expect? “Stop the steal” banners and crying fake elections? No, we won’t stoop that low. 

I am proud the worst we can be is sore losers. Something for your side to learn from and aspire to.

Ah yes, the same side that swears on leaving the country when they lose.  Because who cares about America when I can't get my way? 

The side that's currently screaming how Trump cheated, how "it's not possible" he won every swing state AND snatched multiple double digit blue state projections down to within 5-10%

The side that has it's women locking arms to sexually abstain from "racist, misogynistic, horrible men" because they didn't dare obey the sisterhood.  But no misandry to be found there.  

No you guys won't say "stop the steal", you'll just call him illegitimate, like Hillary did the first time.  It's not the same when you do it though right?

I should aspire to BLM riots, antifa riots, pro Hamas riots, Roe v. Wade riots? 

Yeah, after an alleged coup of the sitting president, the same side is now murmuring about disposing of an aging supreme court justice to implant the DEI hire into another position she didn't earn.

A lot more than "sore losers" if you ask me.

Mighty big brained to compare some random twitter posts to J6, fake electors, almost 100 lawsuits from the Trump campaign. Let’s also not forget that both Clinton and Harris have already conceded, Trump still claims he won in 2020 and had he lost this election he’d be crying foul again.

Not to mention it isn’t just Trump. Members of Congress objected to the election and tried to get votes changed. Legions of right wing loser politicians still parrot everything Trump says. 

Quote this in a year if Dems assaulted the capital and there is a large army of Dem politicians refusing to accept 2024 and constantly spreading lies about it.

Then you’d be a little close with these stupid comparisons.



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There is going to be no buyer's remorse from the people who did not vote for Trump or did not vote at all. Which is the majority of the country but once the shit hits the fan and the economy collapses due to the tariffs and mass deportation all these people that voted for Trump are going to have major buyer's remorse.



Radek said:


These people are truly deranged

The FEMA situation is horrible as well, let's hope it was just one employee, and not more...

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/08/politics/fema-employee-trump-florida-hurricane/index.html

Nope the people that are truly deranged are the people that voted for Trump not to mention they are also delusional since they have no clue about his economic policies that will tank the economy in about six months.  



If Americans think the current economy is in a recession, we're in for a crazy ride over the next two-four years when a real one happens. 



curl-6 said:

So long as the left decides to double down and learn nothing, they will continue to lose people.

Now is the time for introspection and change, for rethinking how the left can reach those outside their bubble.

By all means, keep screaming at anyone who disagrees with leftist ideology, but then don't act surprised if they vote against you.

The left did not lose.  The left has little to no power in the US.  The center right (Democrats) lost to the far right (Republicans). Since both parties shifted rightward since Reagan's first term.



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Chrkeller said:
jason1637 said:

Lol he has to run a million dollar daily giveaway in PA with Elon to win...

And Wisconsin?  Michigan?  North Carolina?  Nevada?  Arizona?  Georgia?  

Instead of acknowledging Election inference you're saying "but did it happen in other states"



EpicRandy said:
LurkerJ said:

There were ways to circumvent these two and do more, I am not mentally equipped to explain this myself now as it's been long time. I will dig up the articles regarding this (or not, I will see how motivated I am later, I am just BLEH about it all now).

This is the dems need to work on, it's almost as if they're too happy to ditch progressive policies. 

Of course, there were ways, but none were without risk, especially since later on Kyrsten became independent and Manchin is one of the most right-leaning democrats, circumventing their constant opposition could have led them to vote against bills out of spite or worse change party affiliation which would have strip dems of senate control.

Sinema in particular seemed to revel in her role as a spoiler.

As for Manchin, he's gone. Replaced by the billionaire coal baron governor of West Virginia despite the fact that WV continued to decline under his governorship. That seat will never be blue again.



jason1637 said:
Chrkeller said:

And Wisconsin?  Michigan?  North Carolina?  Nevada?  Arizona?  Georgia?  

Instead of acknowledging Election inference you're saying "but did it happen in other states"

I'm saying that even if Harris picked up PA, the end result doesn't change.  

Feel free to put Musk in jail, I'm don't care.  But Musk isn't why Harris lost.  



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jason1637 said:
Chrkeller said:

And Wisconsin?  Michigan?  North Carolina?  Nevada?  Arizona?  Georgia?  

Instead of acknowledging Election inference you're saying "but did it happen in other states"

Was it election interference? Is Get Out the Vote also election interference or any other program that seeks to get voters registered?

Seems law professors were split and a judge ruled that it was not but I only took a surface level look.



Mnementh said:

Hey, nobody said Trumps policies are good for the working class, you really are fighting windmills here.

Bernie Sanders said that Biden had good policies enacted, but he also said it isn't enough, as the rich still get richer while the working class still suffers. More is needed. Kyle Kulinski commented it as being the tallest in kindergarden - you can brag, but it doesn't mean as much in the bigger picture.

Additionally the Democrat party didn't really show alliance to working class. If at all they got condescending messages. The actual focus of the campaign wasn't working class worries, but how republican the democrats now are: owning guns, securing border and so on.

And in your argument is an assumption baked in: the assumption that every voter Harris lost gone and vote Trump. But the reality is, that Trump pretty much got the same number of votes as 2020: he got 74 million in 2020 and now got about a million more. Harris lost 10 million votes compared to Biden 2020. So it isn't a question of Trump being better. It is more a question if the democrats are good enough, and for many voters they weren't apparently. So comparing with Trump is pointless, the question should be: how can the democrats be better.

And yes, vibes do matter more than the nitty gritty details. But either way, even if looking at the real data shows that peoples life didn't improve under Biden and the vibe of the democratic party is that they don't care about the simple worker, more that Nancy Pelosi can keep getting rich off insider trading. The vibe is, that the democratic party cares more about graduates from elite universities, than uneducated working people at minimum wage jobs.

So, you and sundin call people idiots, because they didn't act like you wanted, not acknowledging how different people are and live and how different their situation is. You are handwaving it as not rational, even though their situation isn't really improving with democratic policies as they are now. The question is how much it is worth if Don Quijote is calling people idiots, who didn't join him in the fight against windmills. Who is the idiot here?

What I was saying is that your made-up story is what the Harris campaign actually did. Before it was ignorance on your part, but now it's denial.

Votes in California are still being counted because the deadline for mail-in ballots is apparently today; estimate is that ~25% are left to count in that state which amounts to at least 4 million votes. In other words, the final numbers of this election aren't even in yet. But more importantly, because of the American voting system you have to look at state results instead of national results, and specifically the seven swing states which were really the only ones that mattered because all the other states were regarded as secure and turned out that way too. The counting in the swing states is pretty much done, so this is worth looking at.

Arizona: Harris -160k compared to Biden in 2020 (Trump +30k compared to himself in 2020); Georgia: Harris +70k (Trump +200k); Michigan: Harris -70k (Trump +150k); Nevada: Harris -10k (Trump +60k); North Carolina: Harris +0k (Trump +130k); Pennsylvania: Harris -120k (Trump +170k); Wisconsin: Harris +40k (Trump +90k).

There's something of everything in these results. Arizona falls in line with your assertion that Harris lost votes that Trump didn't gain. Georgia, North Carolina and Wisconsin have both candidates gaining, but Trump moreso. Michigan, Nevada and Pennsylvania have Trump gain at the expense of Harris.

The working class has financial problems. The Harris campaign said "we hear you, here are concrete proposals to make things better for you" while Trump rambled about tariffs which are an additional tax on all Americans, including the working class. The fact remains that it is irrational and stupid to pick the latter option. But be my guest and deny it another time that the Harris campaign kept talking about the costs of living.

Lastly, you've said it before that you don't want to help the right. But that's exactly what you are doing by picking up their narrative that the Democrats are to blame for everything, with no responsibility whatsoever lying with the voters. There are actually three factors that contributed to this election's results:

  • Stupid voters.
  • Biden insisting for too long that he has to run for re-election which eventually left the Democrats with endorsing Harris as the only possible choice to get a new campaign up and running in time.
  • The Trump campaign and Fox News running very deceptive ads and coverage which circles back to the first point, because stupid people are easily deceived. Mainstream media should be mentioned here too, because all too often they engaged in sane-washing Trump's rambling.

During the broadcast of Lions vs. Packers I got to watch a Trump ad where they selectively quoted Harris and big news media, like the New York Times to suggest that Harris was going to raise taxes on the working class. It's baffling that something like that is legally allowed in the USA. On a similar note, during the final stretch of the campaign, Trump ran on the slogan "Kamala broke it, Trump will fix it." That's another instance of deception because vice presidents do not make policies; that's also why during the vice presidential debate between Vance and Walz neither man was asked which policies they are going to enact if elected.



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