On those terms I actually really agree with MikeB, Valve used to be known as the gods of programming, they seemed to be able to do anything with they're knowledge :P As of lately I just don't see the mad skillz as easily as I used to, and after they pawned the orange box project off on EA because Gabe didn't feel like learning a new set of hardware, it just further strengthens they're lack of desire to learn in my opinion. I would call them an over-rated developer.

That's interesting mainly because Half-Life 2 was revolutionary when it was released in 2004, and looked far better than its competition (Doom 3) while still maintaining reasonable minimum requirements. Half-Life 2 was also considered such a breakthrough from a gameplay perspective because it offered a ton of variety, and just as you were begining to get tired of an environment or action they mixed it up on you ...

As for Chronotrigger JM's assumption that Gabe didn't feel like learning the PS3's hardware, maybe Gabe realized that the Source engine is 4 years old and his time would be better spent developing a new engine.

@Happy True, or so I COULD believe. I'm still impressed with Valve, I think steam is friggin amazing don't get me wrong, but the fact that anytime something new comes out, the first person in line to bitch about it is Gabe, the man just doesn't seem to like change. Valve used to be the un-tamed mustang to me, they seemed WILLING to tackle any project, they seemed to WANT to learn tricks and shortcuts and just be they're good ol' amazing self. The Valve that I had immagined would have wanted to be one of the first developers on cell technology, they were the guru's of the programing world, but when they let Gabe just sit around and constantly bitch about every other thing, it just massively discredits them in my opinion, I mean they're probably still good, but no where near the level that people hold them at anymore. I think it's just the seeming lack of drive to learn thats killing me about them :( They were one of the few developers that honestly felt like they enjoyed the thrill of the hunt more than the kill it'self y'know.

First, apologies for not reading whole thread - as the actress said to the bishop its just too damn big!

Second, I doubt they're overrated, but for sure they've achieved underserved success (which I think is worse) so I say EA.

I don't understand the Valve complaints, I'd say they're much better than they were in the Half Life days.

Yes the Source engine is getting old, but it still looks about as good as the other engines on the market, and it's even better because it scales to older computers so nicely. That's a REALLY big deal for gamers who can't or don't want to upgrade their PCs.

And you have to give Valve credit for Steam, which is pretty much the only reasonable digital distribution option, and it's a damn good one.

How is playing the same game every couple-years fun?

If you play games alot soon enough you want more than "whoooooo hooooooo, it'sa me'a marioooo"

You want a more diverse range of games.

Agreed, but there's a reason Oblivion FEELS more open world than it is and it's the reason people spent so much time with it - every time you did something, or every time you rolled a different character and did the same quest, everything acted so differently.  Now admitedly much of that was to quirky/glitchy A.I. and some other weird glitches, but the fact that the world changed and people acted differently during attacks and stuff made it FEEL more loose than the script actually allowed.  Some ofit was accidental and "broken" in a way, but it was still really fun.

The same characters =/= the same game.

Also, this is incredibly ironic from someone advertising Halo 3 in his sig.   

Bwahahahah, so true. And I like Halo.

It's ridiculous that people claim Nintendo franchises are all the same. Then again, it makes it brutally obvious that they haven't played a Nintendo game in years if they say that so I guess it's a good way of flagging fanboys on this forum. 

Seriously people.  Nintendo makes maybe 1 or 2 games in each of their main franchises per generation.

There have been three 3D Mario games in three generations.  There have been four 3D Zelda games in three generations.  

There have been five metal gear games in three generations (And I'm not counting any of the spinoffs).  There have been five Ratchet platformers in two generations. There have been five 3D Grand Theft Auto games in one generation, and GTAIV is coming now.  There have been nine Call of Duty games in two generations, and another one is already comming. 

People complain Nintendo milks their franchises, but they are nowhere near the top of the milking tree.