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Forums - Gaming Discussion - FF7 Rebirth trailing Behind Remake Launch Numbers!

haxxiy said:

That comes across as you just don't liking action RPGs to the point of one of them having Final Fantasy in the name irrationally ruins the experience for you.

Sorry, but this ship has long since sailed, and the combat system of the Remake trilogy is the most consensually acclaimed by critics and players alike since FF9, so it'll probably stick around.

I would have recommended Octopath Traveler in that case but that game has a stagger-like mechanic too...

Since 9, not better than 9? Sounds like FF9 was better. Maybe they should go back to that.

This isn't about not liking a certain genre. It's not liking one of my favourite game series being another genre. 



Hmm, pie.

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There is always a new Dragon Quest game coming every X years for players who wants to play the same game again

They will even make sure there is a 2D version of it, to put nostalgia at a maximum



IcaroRibeiro said:

There is always a new Dragon Quest game coming every X years for players who wants to play the same game again

They will even make sure there is a 2D version of it, to put nostalgia at a maximum

Not even; DQ 12 is definitely going to be a action rpg as well. Horii has been trying to make a mainline action rpg since DQ 9. Projects like DQ Warriors and Builders are just stepping tones to that goal.



The Fury said:
haxxiy said:

That comes across as you just don't liking action RPGs to the point of one of them having Final Fantasy in the name irrationally ruins the experience for you.

Sorry, but this ship has long since sailed, and the combat system of the Remake trilogy is the most consensually acclaimed by critics and players alike since FF9, so it'll probably stick around.

I would have recommended Octopath Traveler in that case but that game has a stagger-like mechanic too...

Since 9, not better than 9? Sounds like FF9 was better. Maybe they should go back to that.

This isn't about not liking a certain genre. It's not liking one of my favourite game series being another genre. 

It is still an RPG. The Remake Saga battle system is an evolution of the Classic ATB. All the foundations of the ATB are carried into this version. It's such a great conversion that I can't truly get behind the idea that this battle system is "new". The only difference is that instead of waiting for your turn, you can take basic actions in between. If you took that part out, it would largely revert back to classic ATB.



Xxain said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

There is always a new Dragon Quest game coming every X years for players who wants to play the same game again

They will even make sure there is a 2D version of it, to put nostalgia at a maximum

Not even; DQ 12 is definitely going to be a action rpg as well. Horii has been trying to make a mainline action rpg since DQ 9. Projects like DQ Warriors and Builders are just stepping tones to that goal.

That would be really interesting. I personally find DQ to be one of the most stale JRPGs, turning into more action can finally put some spicy in the gameplay. Although I'm not against it being turn based, as long it's at least more tactical than what currently is 



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The Fury said:

Since 9, not better than 9? Sounds like FF9 was better. Maybe they should go back to that.

This isn't about not liking a certain genre. It's not liking one of my favourite game series being another genre. 

Funny that you mention that since FF9 probably had the worst of the ATBs, as charming as the game is (the pointless trance mechanic, running at 15 fps, etc.).

Also, it has been 20 years. letitgo.gif and all. The market size that they want simply isn't there in the small niche of turn-based JRPGs (though you could make a case for looking closer at PC gaming and giving another shot at FF Tactics after BG3).



 

 

 

 

 

Xxain said:

It is still an RPG. The Remake Saga battle system is an evolution of the Classic ATB. All the foundations of the ATB are carried into this version. It's such a great conversion that I can't truly get behind the idea that this battle system is "new". The only difference is that instead of waiting for your turn, you can take basic actions in between. If you took that part out, it would largely revert back to classic ATB.

And RPG is too general for that argument. DQ, Fallout, Elden Ring and Bladur's Gate all fall under that definition, they are vastly different beasts. If they made Tekken into a 2D fighter, it's still a fighter, so fans should be happy, right? Or make Halo a 3rd person shooter, still a shooter? Fans won't moan at all, it's still a shooter.

And I see no problem with that last bit. As long as the action is a significant attack, not tiny 10 damage a pop, move many abilities to limits again. Maybe add All materia? Getting there. Change how the characters can take actions to a time thing, maybe once every few seconds, which can be sped up with a time magic like haste...



Hmm, pie.

The Fury said:
Xxain said:

It is still an RPG. The Remake Saga battle system is an evolution of the Classic ATB. All the foundations of the ATB are carried into this version. It's such a great conversion that I can't truly get behind the idea that this battle system is "new". The only difference is that instead of waiting for your turn, you can take basic actions in between. If you took that part out, it would largely revert back to classic ATB.

And RPG is too general for that argument. DQ, Fallout, Elden Ring and Bladur's Gate all fall under that definition, they are vastly different beasts. If they made Tekken into a 2D fighter, it's still a fighter, so fans should be happy, right? Or make Halo a 3rd person shooter, still a shooter? Fans won't moan at all, it's still a shooter.

And I see no problem with that last bit. As long as the action is a significant attack, not tiny 10 damage a pop, move many abilities to limits again. Maybe add All materia? Getting there. Change how the characters can take actions to a time thing, maybe once every few seconds, which can be sped up with a time magic like haste...

Perfect blocking, counterattacks, and unique abilities are more than just 10 damage a pop :P and they're just as satisfying to use as a well timed ability.

I understand your preference of turnbased or classic ATB for FF, but Rebirth is more or less as tactical as those. It just has a really nice action layer on top, and the result is excellence. Combat feels like classic FF and Sekiro had a child!



Best battle system in FF is 12.

I'm not a fan of the newer battle systems, too much action and not enough strategy.  



The Fury said:
Xxain said:

Yeah, I've mentioned stagger before and people seem to defend it because "other games have it". It's just a bad mechanic and it hides the fact they can't balance damage. 

A203D said:

Yes. Because it's an action game. This isn't the fact the action game is bad, it's the fact it's an action (real time) game at all. Why is there a dodge roll in Final Fantasy? 

Kyuu said:

I have said before that the gameplay is good and that if it wasn't called FF7 and was just a new game with new characters and story, I might have been well into it as a stand alone game. I say to friends that the issue for me isn't these games are bad quality, you'd be an idiot to argue that. To me FF13, 15, FF7R, they aren't bad games, they are just bad Final Fantasy games.

In previous Final Fantasy game you had evade based moves that would be automated based on various stats. In this game you can move and evade in real time in addition to having enemy moves' that will ignore any form of evasion tactics. I'm not sure what your getting at here? Are you suggesting that Final Fantasy shouldn't have real time movements and controls? Because this has been happening in Final Fantasy since FF10-2 on PS2.

With the pressure and stagger mecahnics, its not like these are new things. In fact the pressure and stagger mechanics are natural extensions of the gameplay system they developed from FF10-2 then the same team went onto progress that system with FF13 where it finally became called 'stagger'. This is something that has become a staple of the series. It adds an extra dimension to the combat so player has to tactially exploit an enemy's weaknesses and attack animations.