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Forums - Politics - Biden vs Trump 2024 Political Platforms, Policies and Issues

Shtinamin_ said:
Chrkeller said:

I suppose it is some what opinion?  I grew up in the US.  Moved a few years to Europe and came back to US. Ir changed my political beliefs a good chunk.

I've grown up US, Californian, lived in Idaho and México, and moved back to California. México opened up my eyes on how special the US is.

Same here.  Quality of life in the US is rather spectacular.  



“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”
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Chrkeller said:
zorg1000 said:

Just out of curiosity which countries are considered capitalistic and which are considered socialistic?

I suppose it is some what opinion?  I grew up in the US.  Moved a few years to Europe and came back to US. Ir changed my political beliefs a good chunk.

I don't think the majority (if any) of European countries would consider themselves to be socialistic and most of their economies are still based on capitalism but with generous public safety nets, would you consider the UK to be socialistic because it has the NHS? It definitely isn't. Most countries in Europe are capitalist still but with strong welfare systems in place but welfare systems aren't inherently anti-capitalism.

"Europe" is a bit of a broad term too, France is not the same as Greece, Greece isn't the same as UK, UK isn't the same as Poland, etc.

I wouldn't mind living in America, depending on the state, but as someone who was born with a disability, spent most their childhood in hospital and only have a good quality of life now because the NHS forked out time, effort and money to help me, I both feel proud that we have something like the NHS and I'm happy to contribute to it but I would also feel fear living in America, I still require yearly x-rays and consultations and God forbid what I have progresses again, it's just too much stress to worry about medical bills, insurance, etc. That I don't need to worry about in UK.

Also, I wouldn't feel comfortable around anyone holding a gun, even a friend, I find it odd how obsessed with guns a lot of Americans are, not to mention poorly trained, treating something so deadly like a toy is too often an occurrence. I also hate how some states are obsessively going after women's rights and abortions and LGBTQ+ people (though UK isn't that much better in regards to trans people).

Some of those are state issues but if I'm being honest I would likely avoid all red states which cuts my destinations down, Lol.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 20 May 2024

Chrkeller said:
Shtinamin_ said:

I've grown up US, Californian, lived in Idaho and México, and moved back to California. México opened up my eyes on how special the US is.

Same here.  Quality of life in the US is rather spectacular.  

Yeah, but that doesn't make countries outside of the US less capitalistic. Heck, nowadays even China and Vietnam are clearly capitalist countries, driven by market interests. I would've a hard time to name a country which isn't capitalist today. Maybe Saudi-Arabia? Not being socialist though, more like feudalistic/theologistic. Iran is a theocracy I guess. Maybe North Korea, although I have a hard time to pinpoint what exactly NK is.

But as the dominant societal structure of our time, capitalism has quite a range of differences in details. And then there is this simple truth: in capitalism there is always a shift of wealth towards the ones owning the means of production. This means the countries that gotten first in the capitalist game (europ and the US) have a headstart on that and therefore were able to easier accumulate wealth while at the same time draining other countries of it. Some countries later joining were able to catch up, namely South Korea and Japan. And China and Vietnam are in the process of doing so as well.



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Ryuu96 said:
Chrkeller said:

I suppose it is some what opinion?  I grew up in the US.  Moved a few years to Europe and came back to US. Ir changed my political beliefs a good chunk.

I don't think the majority (if any) of European countries would consider themselves to be socialistic and most of their economies are still based on capitalism but with generous public safety nets, would you consider the UK to be socialistic because it has the NHS? It definitely isn't. Most countries in Europe are capitalist still but with strong welfare systems in place but welfare systems aren't inherently anti-capitalism.

"Europe" is a bit of a broad term too, France is not the same as Greece, Greece isn't the same as UK, UK isn't the same as Poland, etc.

I wouldn't mind living in America, depending on the state, but as someone who was born with a disability, spent most their childhood in hospital and only have a good quality of life now because the NHS forked out time, effort and money to help me, I both feel proud that we have something like the NHS and I'm happy to contribute to it but I would also feel fear living in America, I still require yearly x-rays and consultations and God forbid what I have progresses again, it's just too much stress to worry about medical bills, insurance, etc. That I don't need to worry about in UK.

Also, I wouldn't feel comfortable around anyone holding a gun, even a friend, I find it odd how obsessed with guns a lot of Americans are, not to mention poorly trained, treating something so deadly like a toy is too often an occurrence. I also hate how some states are obsessively going after women's rights and abortions and LGBTQ+ people (though UK isn't that much better in regards to trans people).

Some of those are state issues but if I'm being honest I would likely avoid all red states which cuts my destinations down, Lol.

Oregon seems like a nice state. Might have to do with the fact, that it is the least religious of all US states. Still, only a quarter of the people are non-religious which is still extremely low compared to europe.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [GTA6]

Mnementh said:
Chrkeller said:

Same here.  Quality of life in the US is rather spectacular.  

Yeah, but that doesn't make countries outside of the US less capitalistic. Heck, nowadays even China and Vietnam are clearly capitalist countries, driven by market interests. I would've a hard time to name a country which isn't capitalist today. Maybe Saudi-Arabia? Not being socialist though, more like feudalistic/theologistic. Iran is a theocracy I guess. Maybe North Korea, although I have a hard time to pinpoint what exactly NK is.

But as the dominant societal structure of our time, capitalism has quite a range of differences in details. And then there is this simple truth: in capitalism there is always a shift of wealth towards the ones owning the means of production. This means the countries that gotten first in the capitalist game (europ and the US) have a headstart on that and therefore were able to easier accumulate wealth while at the same time draining other countries of it. Some countries later joining were able to catch up, namely South Korea and Japan. And China and Vietnam are in the process of doing so as well.



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Mnementh said:
Ryuu96 said:

I don't think the majority (if any) of European countries would consider themselves to be socialistic and most of their economies are still based on capitalism but with generous public safety nets, would you consider the UK to be socialistic because it has the NHS? It definitely isn't. Most countries in Europe are capitalist still but with strong welfare systems in place but welfare systems aren't inherently anti-capitalism.

"Europe" is a bit of a broad term too, France is not the same as Greece, Greece isn't the same as UK, UK isn't the same as Poland, etc.

I wouldn't mind living in America, depending on the state, but as someone who was born with a disability, spent most their childhood in hospital and only have a good quality of life now because the NHS forked out time, effort and money to help me, I both feel proud that we have something like the NHS and I'm happy to contribute to it but I would also feel fear living in America, I still require yearly x-rays and consultations and God forbid what I have progresses again, it's just too much stress to worry about medical bills, insurance, etc. That I don't need to worry about in UK.

Also, I wouldn't feel comfortable around anyone holding a gun, even a friend, I find it odd how obsessed with guns a lot of Americans are, not to mention poorly trained, treating something so deadly like a toy is too often an occurrence. I also hate how some states are obsessively going after women's rights and abortions and LGBTQ+ people (though UK isn't that much better in regards to trans people).

Some of those are state issues but if I'm being honest I would likely avoid all red states which cuts my destinations down, Lol.

Oregon seems like a nice state. Might have to do with the fact, that it is the least religious of all US states. Still, only a quarter of the people are non-religious which is still extremely low compared to europe.

Another point, I'm not a fan of how obsessed with religion many American states seem to be, the UK has Church of England and 46.2% describe themselves as Christian but I think most people are just "I believe in God" and don't care much beyond that, they don't try to shove it down your throat. I do not like religion influencing laws and there's a lot of Christian fanatics in the USA using it as an excuse to attack things such as abortion.

Oregon is beautiful...My only reason really for not minding living in America would be the natural scenery, Lol.



Ryuu96 said:
Chrkeller said:

I suppose it is some what opinion?  I grew up in the US.  Moved a few years to Europe and came back to US. Ir changed my political beliefs a good chunk.

I don't think the majority (if any) of European countries would consider themselves to be socialistic and most of their economies are still based on capitalism but with generous public safety nets, would you consider the UK to be socialistic because it has the NHS? It definitely isn't. Most countries in Europe are capitalist still but with strong welfare systems in place but welfare systems aren't inherently anti-capitalism.

"Europe" is a bit of a broad term too, France is not the same as Greece, Greece isn't the same as UK, UK isn't the same as Poland, etc.

I wouldn't mind living in America, depending on the state, but as someone who was born with a disability, spent most their childhood in hospital and only have a good quality of life now because the NHS forked out time, effort and money to help me, I both feel proud that we have something like the NHS and I'm happy to contribute to it but I would also feel fear living in America, I still require yearly x-rays and consultations and God forbid what I have progresses again, it's just too much stress to worry about medical bills, insurance, etc. That I don't need to worry about in UK.

Also, I wouldn't feel comfortable around anyone holding a gun, even a friend, I find it odd how obsessed with guns a lot of Americans are, not to mention poorly trained, treating something so deadly like a toy is too often an occurrence. I also hate how some states are obsessively going after women's rights and abortions and LGBTQ+ people (though UK isn't that much better in regards to trans people).

Some of those are state issues but if I'm being honest I would likely avoid all red states which cuts my destinations down, Lol.

For me I just wasn't aware of how affluent the US was compared to the rest of the world.  Living in Europe has been a good experience.  I don't have an agenda or a huge point, just my experience wasn't what I expected.

As for guns, it is a problem but not the problem people think.  Most people are stunned to find out 50% of gun deaths are suicides.  I lived 30 years in the US and never had a run in with a gun.  Don't get me wrong a few common sense laws still isn't a bad thing.



“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”
Mnementh said:

Oregon seems like a nice state. Might have to do with the fact, that it is the least religious of all US states. Still, only a quarter of the people are non-religious which is still extremely low compared to europe.

Oregon is a beautiful state but does seem to have more political (and cultural) extremism than most. You've got famously (notoriously?) liberal areas like Portland and then you have rural areas that became a sort of refuge for white supremacist groups as they moved West. If you know what you're looking for and where though it can be really nice.



I've lived in a number of states. NC was my favorite. Middle ish of the line. Low cost of living. Good job opportunities. Mountains and beaches. All 4 seasons.



“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”
zorg1000 said:

Just out of curiosity which countries are considered capitalistic and which are considered socialistic?

The definition of a socialist country from what I've seen has basically ranged from "socialism is when the government offers things resembling safety nets" to "socialism is only when the state is dissolved".

Actually I think I've seen some people go even further, that socialism can only happen if every state has dissolved, because that's the only way to actually take ownership of your own work.

Last edited by the-pi-guy - on 20 May 2024