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Forums - Politics - Biden vs Trump 2024 Political Platforms, Policies and Issues

Chrkeller said:

We will have to agree to disagree.  Someone who buys something stupid shouldn't be bailed out.  If I buy a Porsche...  and can't afford it, the government doesn't owe me crap.  

People paying 100k on a worthless degrees made a poor decision.  

Edit

I don't believe in corporate bailouts either.  

If you buy a porsche and can't afford it, they can repossess it. 

You can't repossess a degree. 



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the-pi-guy said:
Chrkeller said:

We will have to agree to disagree.  Someone who buys something stupid shouldn't be bailed out.  If I buy a Porsche...  and can't afford it, the government doesn't owe me crap.  

People paying 100k on a worthless degrees made a poor decision.  

Edit

I don't believe in corporate bailouts either.  

If you buy a porsche and can't afford it, they can repossess it. 

You can't repossess a degree. 

Oh I assumed I would keep it.  We shouldn't keep people stuck for bad choices, no?  Consumer marketing made feel like I needed one.  It isn't my fault.  

My cousin went to cal Berkeley and got a degree in Nordic poetry....  that isn't the fault of anyone but herself.  

Edit

Also my wife got a pottery degree and I paid back every dime of her 40k loan.  Nobody bailed us out.

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 11 April 2024

“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”
Chrkeller said:

Oh I assumed I would keep it. 

Most bad decisions can be overturned, or if they can't be overturned, then there are insurances.

You buy a car or a house you can't actually afford, it can get repossessed and resold for the lost value.

If your house burns down, there's insurance. 

If you're a smoker and get lung cancer, there's insurance. 

Neither of those things are an option with student loans.  

Chrkeller said:

We shouldn't keep people stuck for bad choices, no?  Consumer marketing made feel like I needed one.  It isn't my fault.  

It doesn't mean it's not your fault. 

People make stupid decisions all the time. People drink, do drugs, they speed, etc. 

Society as a whole tends to pay for those things. We pay for police officers, we pay for prisons, we pay for education so that people are hopefully informed enough to make choices, we pay for emergency services. We pay either directly or indirectly for most of these things.

Your bad decisions can 100% be your fault, and it can still make sense that society collectively comes together to help you out. Especially when it's an issue that affects like 1 in 7 people. 



Is this student debt relief even something that's costing us any money to forgive in the first place? Like, are we actually using federal funds to pay down the debt or just ordering creditors to cross out certain debts? I've heard both proposed but I'm not sure what's going through right now.



TallSilhouette said:

Is this student debt relief even something that's costing us any money to forgive in the first place? Like, are we actually using federal funds to pay down the debt or just ordering creditors to cross out certain debts? I've heard both proposed but I'm not sure what's going through right now.

92% of student loan debt is federal, (which is what people are pushing for forgiving)

Those loans are given out directly by the government. There are loan services like Nelnet, Edfinancial, MOHELA, CRI, which manage payment to the federal government, and they take a percentage of the debt payment. 

Those federal loans are part of the federal debt. So when you hear the $34.5 trillion debt that the US has, about $1.6 trillion of that is technically* student debt.

*Not necessarily that simple, because it's not necessarily how finances work, but for all intents and purposes.*



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Forgiveness increases debt, which pushes inflation, which costs everyone money. It is a poor strategy and doesn't address the actual problem. The actual problem is absurd private school costs and worthless degrees people shouldn't be getting. There needs to be an honest conversation on the actual problem, not silly band aid "solutions."



“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”
Chrkeller said:

Forgiveness increases debt, which pushes inflation, which costs everyone money. It is a poor strategy and doesn't address the actual problem. The actual problem is absurd private school costs and worthless degrees people shouldn't be getting. There needs to be an honest conversation on the actual problem, not silly band aid "solutions."

Forgiveness does not increase debt, it is already included in the debt. 

Both things are being talked about. One of which is easier than the other, because of the fact that the president has oversight over managing student debt. Fewer hoops to jump through.  



the-pi-guy said:
Chrkeller said:

Forgiveness increases debt, which pushes inflation, which costs everyone money. It is a poor strategy and doesn't address the actual problem. The actual problem is absurd private school costs and worthless degrees people shouldn't be getting. There needs to be an honest conversation on the actual problem, not silly band aid "solutions."

Forgiveness does not increase debt, it is already included in the debt. 

Both things are being talked about. One of which is easier than the other, because of the fact that the president has oversight over managing student debt. Fewer hoops to jump through.  

OK, so if we reduce debt by having people pay for the money they borrowed....  we fight inflation.   Different side of the same coin. 

Forgiving debt, is BS, imo.  If it weren't trump I would be voting against Biden.  I paid my wife's debt over 10 years...  others can and should do the same, full stop.

People need to stop getting worthless degrees, full stop.  



“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”

I Don't Know How To Explain To You That You Should Care About Other People

"I’m perfectly content to pay taxes that go toward public schools, even though I’m childless and intend to stay that way, because all children deserve a quality, free education. If this seems unfair or unreasonable to you, we are never going to see eye to eye.

If I have to pay a little more with each paycheck to ensure my fellow Americans can access health care? SIGN ME UP. Poverty should not be a death sentence in the richest country in the world. If you’re okay with thousands of people dying of treatable diseases just so the wealthiest among us can hoard still more wealth, there is a divide between our worldviews that can never be bridged.

I don’t know how to convince someone how to experience the basic human emotion of empathy."

None of this is for me. I live a very privileged life. I don't have to worry about my student debt. I don't have to worry about putting food on the table. 

There's another person out there who made a terrible decision, maybe because he grew up in a broken home, maybe a billion other things. 

I would be thrilled to make some reasonable sacrifices to help that other person live a better life. 

I'm tired of the "why should I be punished for doing everything right" nonsense. 

We give up a lot more to do a lot worse. The government happily spends a trillion dollars every year on funding an absurd military, including tons of wasteful research projects that go nowhere. 



Chrkeller said:
zorg1000 said:

Nah, the US college tuition situation is fucked and an entire generation was taught that a degree was needed for a good paying job and drilled into our heads that you should do something you have a passion for, turns out that was terrible advice and now those same people are being told they shouldn’t have spend so much money on a useless degree.

Also it’s a very predatory system where people who aren’t considered mature enough to decide if they want to smoke or drink are considered mature enough to sign up for 10’s or even 100’s of thousands dollar loans without any proof of ability to pay it back unlike car or home loans.

I only did a year of community college and have no student debt but I absolutely support student debt relief. However, there needs to be some serious changes made to bring down the costs of college or we will be back in the same situation before long.

Nah.  State schools aren't expensive.  8 to 10k a year.  The "fancy" private schools are the problem along with the absurd room/board.  If someone goes to a grossly overpriced private school and gets a stupid degree...   that was their choice, not my problem.  

I got my chemistry degrees from state schools...  60k for a MS.  Easily paid back.  

People need to take responsibility for their choices, not blame others.  I have a friend who went to Carnegie and got a degree in classical guitar for 150k....  his problem, not mine.

A quick google search tells me the national average for in-state tuition at a public 4-year university is just over $26k/year or about $104k for a degree. That is absolutely expensive.

Also, why are you assuming everyone with large amounts of debt got a stupid degree? This is a right wing talking point where they pretend everybody who has student debt got some ridiculous degree like the one in your example.

It’s not blaming others, it’s accepting that we have a fucked up system and people shouldn’t be punished for trying to get an education. When the cost of tuition is multiple times more expensive than other OECD countries (some of these countries are tuition free) then we should acknowledge that there is a major issue with the way our system is set up and not blame people for doing what they were taught would make them more money.

Higher education in the US is like out healthcare and childcare systems where people are spending an asinine amount for things that other countries get for much cheaper or even free.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.