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Forums - Politics Discussion - Israel-Hamas war, Gaza genocide

hellobion2 said:

When I hear about this war I always think of the song the "times are changing" by bob dylan in my head.

Must be on repeat then.



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SvennoJ said:
Dante9 said:

Unfortunately, this conflict is based on the clashing of religious paradigms, and it will never be solved peacefully unless one party is wiped out completely. At this point, it is all but impossible to make ultimate justifications for either party for any meaningful resolution. Too much has happened and for too long. Generations of people have been locked in, and the reasons don't even really matter to them anymore.
However, consider this. There are some 50 Islamic countries in the world, should the Jewish people not be allowed to have even one? And why is it that even Palestine's Muslim neighbors are not willing to take Palestinians in in this dire situation? Seems weird, unless there is a very good reason.

What are you suggesting? 5.3 million Palestinians pack up and leave from Gaza and the West Bank? That's about the same population as Slovakia, Finland or Norway. Should Europe take them in as Smotrich suggests? And living together does work, 20% of the Isreali population are Arabs. https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-know-about-arab-citizens-israel That's the maximum percentage Israel allows, hence the apartheid regime to prevent that percentage getting bigger.

The reasons very much matter. The ongoing oppression, apartheid and religious Settler movement is what keeps driving this conflict. Every time borders are set, Israel pushes them further back. The USA has allowed the radicalization of the Israeli government. Many Jewish people rather live in peace and want to see an end to the oppression and apartheid as well.

There are 167 Democratic countries in the world, Israel is just one of them. Can't Jews pick another place to live... 7.2 million Jews in Israel vs combined some 8 million Arab Muslims in Israel, West Bank and Gaza combined. Why are Palestinians not allowed to have a place to live? Why should Muslims not be allowed to visit their holy place (Al Aqsa) in East Jerusalem?


There's clearly a one sided push to ethnically cleanse the indigenous population from the lands of Israel and Palestine in the name of Neo-Zionism.

Why would neighboring countries take in 8 million people. People who have their own culture and thousand years of history (which is systematically being destroyed in Gaza atm) Why doesn't Europe take in all the Ukrainians, let Russia have Ukraine, problem solved? Europe has 50 countries, can't Russia just have 'their' land back? (Ukraine was part of Russia from the late 1700s to 1991) Seems weird European neighbors don't just want to take in the Ukrainians and get this war over with...

Why doesn't the USA take in the 7.2 million Jews from Israel, problem also solved right? There are about 7.6 million Jews in the USA, seems like a good party? With only 3.4 million Muslims in the USA, welcoming Jews in the USA seems like a better fit than moving the Palestinians to Europe as Smotrich suggests...

Nah, nobody is leaving. Would you if someone comes along and says, my religion wants me to live in your house / on your land? And if you live in the US or Canada, Australia, the indigenous population has a far more recent claim on 'your' property than Zionists.

There is plenty room for people to live together in the region. But it will only work without oppression and equal rights for everyone. Yes there will still be radical elements, just like there are in any other country. Yet most of the world has 'solved' these conflicts and learned to live together. Northern Ireland for example.

What is needed is for people to talk to each other. Language is a big barrier. Jews need to be taught Arabic in school, Palestinians need to be taught Hebrew in school. As well as each other's history. Without understanding there can be no peace and it will always remain 'us and them'. I live in a bilingual country, it's not a problem. We're not going to war with the French and while Quebec has its separatist movement, most people want to stick together. (It came close though in 1995) Things would be very different though if Ontario was playing land grab with Quebec, carve up Quebec in controlled regions, dehumanize French Canadians, build a wall around Quebec to control what goes in and out including the people, and not give French speaking Canadians the same rights. Ehh France can take them back cause French people are all the same?

Palestinians have their own identity, their own history, they have a right to self government and a place to live. The UN has made that clear many times. There is one side that's not listening and chooses to live in perpetual fear, lashing out, unwilling to let go of the past. A traumatized population dealing with the trauma of the holocaust in ways that will never heal the wounds. And in the process creating another whole population with similar wounds since 1948.

Talk and live instead of Might is right.

Well said. There is a reason no media ever talks about the jews living in Iran since 800 ac. Then it would be obvious the jews living in Iran can live freely, have their own religious places and are even having seats in Iran's parliament. It would destroy the narrative Iran wants to murder all jewish people.



Tober said:
SvennoJ said:

What are you suggesting? 5.3 million Palestinians pack up and leave from Gaza and the West Bank? That's about the same population as Slovakia, Finland or Norway. Should Europe take them in as Smotrich suggests? And living together does work, 20% of the Isreali population are Arabs. https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-know-about-arab-citizens-israel That's the maximum percentage Israel allows, hence the apartheid regime to prevent that percentage getting bigger.

The reasons very much matter. The ongoing oppression, apartheid and religious Settler movement is what keeps driving this conflict. Every time borders are set, Israel pushes them further back. The USA has allowed the radicalization of the Israeli government. Many Jewish people rather live in peace and want to see an end to the oppression and apartheid as well.

There are 167 Democratic countries in the world, Israel is just one of them. Can't Jews pick another place to live... 7.2 million Jews in Israel vs combined some 8 million Arab Muslims in Israel, West Bank and Gaza combined. Why are Palestinians not allowed to have a place to live? Why should Muslims not be allowed to visit their holy place (Al Aqsa) in East Jerusalem?


There's clearly a one sided push to ethnically cleanse the indigenous population from the lands of Israel and Palestine in the name of Neo-Zionism.

Why would neighboring countries take in 8 million people. People who have their own culture and thousand years of history (which is systematically being destroyed in Gaza atm) Why doesn't Europe take in all the Ukrainians, let Russia have Ukraine, problem solved? Europe has 50 countries, can't Russia just have 'their' land back? (Ukraine was part of Russia from the late 1700s to 1991) Seems weird European neighbors don't just want to take in the Ukrainians and get this war over with...

Why doesn't the USA take in the 7.2 million Jews from Israel, problem also solved right? There are about 7.6 million Jews in the USA, seems like a good party? With only 3.4 million Muslims in the USA, welcoming Jews in the USA seems like a better fit than moving the Palestinians to Europe as Smotrich suggests...

Nah, nobody is leaving. Would you if someone comes along and says, my religion wants me to live in your house / on your land? And if you live in the US or Canada, Australia, the indigenous population has a far more recent claim on 'your' property than Zionists.

There is plenty room for people to live together in the region. But it will only work without oppression and equal rights for everyone. Yes there will still be radical elements, just like there are in any other country. Yet most of the world has 'solved' these conflicts and learned to live together. Northern Ireland for example.

What is needed is for people to talk to each other. Language is a big barrier. Jews need to be taught Arabic in school, Palestinians need to be taught Hebrew in school. As well as each other's history. Without understanding there can be no peace and it will always remain 'us and them'. I live in a bilingual country, it's not a problem. We're not going to war with the French and while Quebec has its separatist movement, most people want to stick together. (It came close though in 1995) Things would be very different though if Ontario was playing land grab with Quebec, carve up Quebec in controlled regions, dehumanize French Canadians, build a wall around Quebec to control what goes in and out including the people, and not give French speaking Canadians the same rights. Ehh France can take them back cause French people are all the same?

Palestinians have their own identity, their own history, they have a right to self government and a place to live. The UN has made that clear many times. There is one side that's not listening and chooses to live in perpetual fear, lashing out, unwilling to let go of the past. A traumatized population dealing with the trauma of the holocaust in ways that will never heal the wounds. And in the process creating another whole population with similar wounds since 1948.

Talk and live instead of Might is right.

Well said. There is a reason no media ever talks about the jews living in Iran since 800 ac. Then it would be obvious the jews living in Iran can live freely, have their own religious places and are even having seats in Iran's parliament. It would destroy the narrative Iran wants to murder all jewish people.

There is 1 seat designated for a Jewish person in the Iranian parliament where that 1 Jew serves as a token and parrots the talking points Khamenei gives him.  The Jewish community of Iran is less than 1/10 of what it was before the current regime took over because the vast majority fled the country in fear, and those who remain have no freedom to disagree on the government on anything for fear of reprisal.  Meanwhile Iran funds and plans terrorist attacks against Jews-not even Israelis-across 4 different continents.  Iran can be very tolerant of Jews when they are good Dhimmis who do exactly what their Muslim masters tell them, all the others it does indeed want to kill.



h2ohno said:
Tober said:

Well said. There is a reason no media ever talks about the jews living in Iran since 800 ac. Then it would be obvious the jews living in Iran can live freely, have their own religious places and are even having seats in Iran's parliament. It would destroy the narrative Iran wants to murder all jewish people.

There is 1 seat designated for a Jewish person in the Iranian parliament where that 1 Jew serves as a token and parrots the talking points Khamenei gives him.  The Jewish community of Iran is less than 1/10 of what it was before the current regime took over because the vast majority fled the country in fear, and those who remain have no freedom to disagree on the government on anything for fear of reprisal.  Meanwhile Iran funds and plans terrorist attacks against Jews-not even Israelis-across 4 different continents.  Iran can be very tolerant of Jews when they are good Dhimmis who do exactly what their Muslim masters tell them, all the others it does indeed want to kill.

If that is so, why are we never hearing about it in the media? If jewish people are suppressed in Iran, I expected we would hear about it all the time. It's the largest jewish community in the middle-east outside of Israel.



Tober said:
h2ohno said:

There is 1 seat designated for a Jewish person in the Iranian parliament where that 1 Jew serves as a token and parrots the talking points Khamenei gives him.  The Jewish community of Iran is less than 1/10 of what it was before the current regime took over because the vast majority fled the country in fear, and those who remain have no freedom to disagree on the government on anything for fear of reprisal.  Meanwhile Iran funds and plans terrorist attacks against Jews-not even Israelis-across 4 different continents.  Iran can be very tolerant of Jews when they are good Dhimmis who do exactly what their Muslim masters tell them, all the others it does indeed want to kill.

If that is so, why are we never hearing about it in the media? If jewish people are suppressed in Iran, I expected we would hear about it all the time. It's the largest jewish community in the middle-east outside of Israel.

There are a lot of horrible stories you don't hear about in the media. For instance, about 200 Christians were massacred in Nigeria during Christmas week, and this week 7 Jews were killed when a rocket hit a synagogue in India - which was not a deliberate attack on those Jews but collateral damage from another conflict between two different ethnic groups that broke out last year.  The biggest reason in this case is probably that the persecution hasn't resulted in killings for a while, and a persecution that has been going on for over 40 years with little change isn't news.  Jewish media and Iranian opposition media are full of stories of the plight of Iranian Jews, as those tens of thousands of Jews who have left Iran are finally free to speak without fear of being arrested and possibly killed, and experts on Iran have written and spoken extensively on the subject.  And the American government has condemned Iran for forcing its Jews to hold rallies condemning Israel.

Turkey is actually the Middle Eastern Nation with the most Jews currently, as the number of Jews in Iran has fallen to around 8-9,000, while Turkey has nearly 15,000.  A community does not drop from 100,000 to under 10,000 if they are being treated well and live without fear.  The very fact that Jews are never seen in anti-regime protests such as the protests over Mahsa Amini is as telling, as in no other country are Jews so completely absent from protest movements because if they put a toe out of line in Iran they will be immediately accused of being Israeli agents and arrested.



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Tober said:
SvennoJ said:

What are you suggesting? 5.3 million Palestinians pack up and leave from Gaza and the West Bank? That's about the same population as Slovakia, Finland or Norway. Should Europe take them in as Smotrich suggests? And living together does work, 20% of the Isreali population are Arabs. https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-know-about-arab-citizens-israel That's the maximum percentage Israel allows, hence the apartheid regime to prevent that percentage getting bigger.

The reasons very much matter. The ongoing oppression, apartheid and religious Settler movement is what keeps driving this conflict. Every time borders are set, Israel pushes them further back. The USA has allowed the radicalization of the Israeli government. Many Jewish people rather live in peace and want to see an end to the oppression and apartheid as well.

There are 167 Democratic countries in the world, Israel is just one of them. Can't Jews pick another place to live... 7.2 million Jews in Israel vs combined some 8 million Arab Muslims in Israel, West Bank and Gaza combined. Why are Palestinians not allowed to have a place to live? Why should Muslims not be allowed to visit their holy place (Al Aqsa) in East Jerusalem?


There's clearly a one sided push to ethnically cleanse the indigenous population from the lands of Israel and Palestine in the name of Neo-Zionism.

Why would neighboring countries take in 8 million people. People who have their own culture and thousand years of history (which is systematically being destroyed in Gaza atm) Why doesn't Europe take in all the Ukrainians, let Russia have Ukraine, problem solved? Europe has 50 countries, can't Russia just have 'their' land back? (Ukraine was part of Russia from the late 1700s to 1991) Seems weird European neighbors don't just want to take in the Ukrainians and get this war over with...

Why doesn't the USA take in the 7.2 million Jews from Israel, problem also solved right? There are about 7.6 million Jews in the USA, seems like a good party? With only 3.4 million Muslims in the USA, welcoming Jews in the USA seems like a better fit than moving the Palestinians to Europe as Smotrich suggests...

Nah, nobody is leaving. Would you if someone comes along and says, my religion wants me to live in your house / on your land? And if you live in the US or Canada, Australia, the indigenous population has a far more recent claim on 'your' property than Zionists.

There is plenty room for people to live together in the region. But it will only work without oppression and equal rights for everyone. Yes there will still be radical elements, just like there are in any other country. Yet most of the world has 'solved' these conflicts and learned to live together. Northern Ireland for example.

What is needed is for people to talk to each other. Language is a big barrier. Jews need to be taught Arabic in school, Palestinians need to be taught Hebrew in school. As well as each other's history. Without understanding there can be no peace and it will always remain 'us and them'. I live in a bilingual country, it's not a problem. We're not going to war with the French and while Quebec has its separatist movement, most people want to stick together. (It came close though in 1995) Things would be very different though if Ontario was playing land grab with Quebec, carve up Quebec in controlled regions, dehumanize French Canadians, build a wall around Quebec to control what goes in and out including the people, and not give French speaking Canadians the same rights. Ehh France can take them back cause French people are all the same?

Palestinians have their own identity, their own history, they have a right to self government and a place to live. The UN has made that clear many times. There is one side that's not listening and chooses to live in perpetual fear, lashing out, unwilling to let go of the past. A traumatized population dealing with the trauma of the holocaust in ways that will never heal the wounds. And in the process creating another whole population with similar wounds since 1948.

Talk and live instead of Might is right.

Well said. There is a reason no media ever talks about the jews living in Iran since 800 ac. Then it would be obvious the jews living in Iran can live freely, have their own religious places and are even having seats in Iran's parliament. It would destroy the narrative Iran wants to murder all jewish people.

If talking about Iran, how about Zoroastrianism, the original Religion of the country since ancient Persia. Most well-known person from this Religion was most probably Freddie Mercury, in case you're wondering.



h2ohno said:
Tober said:

If that is so, why are we never hearing about it in the media? If jewish people are suppressed in Iran, I expected we would hear about it all the time. It's the largest jewish community in the middle-east outside of Israel.

There are a lot of horrible stories you don't hear about in the media. For instance, about 200 Christians were massacred in Nigeria during Christmas week, and this week 7 Jews were killed when a rocket hit a synagogue in India - which was not a deliberate attack on those Jews but collateral damage from another conflict between two different ethnic groups that broke out last year.  The biggest reason in this case is probably that the persecution hasn't resulted in killings for a while, and a persecution that has been going on for over 40 years with little change isn't news.  Jewish media and Iranian opposition media are full of stories of the plight of Iranian Jews, as those tens of thousands of Jews who have left Iran are finally free to speak without fear of being arrested and possibly killed, and experts on Iran have written and spoken extensively on the subject.  And the American government has condemned Iran for forcing its Jews to hold rallies condemning Israel.

Turkey is actually the Middle Eastern Nation with the most Jews currently, as the number of Jews in Iran has fallen to around 8-9,000, while Turkey has nearly 15,000.  A community does not drop from 100,000 to under 10,000 if they are being treated well and live without fear.  The very fact that Jews are never seen in anti-regime protests such as the protests over Mahsa Amini is as telling, as in no other country are Jews so completely absent from protest movements because if they put a toe out of line in Iran they will be immediately accused of being Israeli agents and arrested.

Iran is another nice example is US and UK meddling.

In 1953, amid a power struggle between Mohammed Reza Shah and Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh, the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the U.K. Secret Intelligence Service (MI6) orchestrated a coup against Mosaddegh’s government.

Iran was on the right path yet the West couldn't let this happen

His government's most significant policy was the nationalisation of the Iranian oil industry, which had been built by the British on Persian lands since 1913 through the Anglo-Persian Oil Company (APOC/ AIOC ), later known as British Petroleum (BP).

That set the stage for the White Revolution and later the Iranian revolution in 1978 which turned everything back in the name of 'make Iran great again', regressing to traditional religious values. Also Iran became hostile to the US, so the US backed Saddam Hussein in the Iran-Iraq war in the 80s.

The United States used a host of tools to weaken Iran. It encouraged Iranian revolutionary groups, imposed economic sanctions on Iran, and worked intensely to prevent Iran from building pipelines that could carry its oil and gas to nearby countries. This pressure intensified after Pres. George W. Bush took office in 2001. Bush famously listed Iran, along with Iraq and North Korea, as part of the world’s “axis of evil” and claimed in his second inaugural address that Iran had become “the world’s primary state sponsor of terror.” Vice Pres. Dick Cheney asserted that “Iran is at the top of the list” of world trouble spots. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called Iran’s human rights record “a thing to be loathed.” All said they hoped diplomacy would find a solution to problems between the two countries, but many seemed to consider it a dead end.

Iran still supports groups such as Hezbollah in Lebanon that militantly oppose the faltering Middle East peace process, yet even this seems open to negotiation. Resolving the Israeli-Palestinian dispute is seen by many as an absolute prerequisite to stability in the Middle East, and, although Iran has been no friend of the peace process, its very militancy could make it a uniquely valuable force if it could be enticed to moderate its position.

And nothing has changed since then. Isolating a country doesn't lead anywhere, see North Korea. Meanwhile the US keeps doing what it wants and indirectly keeps providing the Mullahs with plenty support. Just today again:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/04/baghdad-airstrike-kills-iran-backed-militia-leader
Just after Iran finally let Santiago Sanchez Cogedor go.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/spaniard-imprisoned-iran-after-visiting-grave-mahsa-amini-106043337

Maybe it's time to try something new, like leave the Middle East alone to figure out their problems among themselves. Problem is, we're addicted to their oil. Every action has a re-action, you can't force change. Change has to come from within. You can stifle change, and that's all what the West has been doing to the Middle East to protect their oil interests. Israel is as much a proxy of the USA to control the Middle East as Israel is dependent on the US. It's a toxic symbiotic relationship.



It was Isis bombing the memorial

Islamic State claims responsibility for deadly attack at memorial in Iran

ISIS media wing Al-Furqan on Thursday issued a statement claiming responsibility for deadly dual bombings in Kerman, southern Iran. The explosions at the ceremony in southeastern Iran on Wednesday left dozens dead and scores injured.

In the statement, titled "And Kill Them Wherever you Find Them," they said that two brothers, who they named, set off towards a gathering of "polytheists" near the grave of their "dead leader" Qasem Soleimani, and detonated their explosive vests amid the gathering.

The statement also warned who they dubbed the "polytheists" that the "mujahideen are lying in wait for them and their projects." Islamic State considers the Shia branch of Islam to be heretical and has targeted shrines and religious sites in Iran previously.

Another UK/US creation https://www.cnn.com/2016/08/12/middleeast/here-is-how-isis-began/index.html
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/06/13/532809626/u-s-led-coalition-has-used-white-phosphorous-in-fight-for-mosul-general-says
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/21/british-airstrikes-mosul-civilian-victims-iraq



Palestinians forced to flee in central Gaza tell CNN they would "prefer to go back home and die with dignity"

Donkey carts crammed with blankets, mattresses piled onto cars and thinly-stocked market stalls lined the mud-caked streets of Nuseirat, in central Gaza, on Thursday, through which streams of displaced people were making their way to the nearby area of Deir al-Balah. Many had mixed emotions. Deir al-Balah was supposed to be safer, at least according to instructions from the Israeli military, but living conditions were at best primitive.

Generations of Palestinians were camped out among the rubble of flattened buildings, while others carried their belongings to move further south, as the Israeli military expanded its operations in central and southern Gaza. On Thursday, the Israel Defense Forces issued a new series of evacuation instructions to Palestinians, including that “military activities” would be temporarily suspended in the Al-Brook and Jaffa neighborhoods of Deir al-Balah.

Amnesty International has previously warned that the Israeli military's calls to evacuate could amount to “forced displacement of the civilian population,” in violation of international law.

Several of the civilians who had fled to Deir al-Balah told CNN they were too exhausted to flee again – instead wishing they could return home to “die with dignity.” Ramzi Al Jammal, a civilian from Al-Bureij refugee camp, was displaced to Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital. He has been separated from members of his extended family, including his sons and his grandchildren. "There are no tents, no food, no water, people swarm the storage warehouses, it’s a very difficult situation. I would prefer to die in my house,” Al Jammal said. “I regret leaving my house, I wish we were together so we die together or live together.”

Hundreds of thousands of displaced Palestinians are living in tent camps stretched along cities in the south, with little access to basic sanitation, food, fuel or drinkable water. Many sleep on the streets with inadequate clothing to keep them warm during the winter season.

But Abdul Rahman, a civilian who has not fled Nuseirat, told CNN that trying to survive in makeshift camps was no better than living among the ruins of central and northern Gaza. “We have no place to go,” he said on Thursday. “There is no space, people sleep on the road. There is no place to sit safely in this area. “There is no water, there is no electricity,” he said. “They bomb and attack us without any alarm … We have nothing to do, we have no food.”

Abu Adnan, a displaced civilian who now lives on the streets of Deir al-Balah, told CNN he wishes he had “stayed at home and got shot.” “This is not life, it’s humiliation,” he said. “I will go nowhere after this, unless I go back to my house.” “I tried to go back home twice but my children pulled me back,” he added. “There are no toilets, no food, no water, no clothes. With all this, I prefer to go back home and die with dignity than dying this way.”


IDF warns Gazans to take western coastal road amid operations in central and southern Gaza.

The Israeli military has warned civilians in Gaza not to use Salah Al-Din street, the main north-south route, as it ramps up fighting in central and southern parts of the territory. Instead, the IDF told Palestinians to travel via Al-Rasheed street, the coastal road to the west.

At least 36 Palestinians were killed in strikes on Al-Mawasi and neighboring Khan Younis on Thursday. Thousands of displaced Palestinians have moved to Al-Mawasi in recent days, as the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) deepened its military operations in central and southern Gaza.

Smoke rises over buildings following the Israeli attacks on Khan Younis, Gaza, on January 4, 2024

Heavy bombing rocks Rafah in southern Gaza

Rescue workers are searching through the rubble after an Israeli air raid in Rafah, as “extremely loud” blasts reverberate throughout the strip amid heavy bombardment.

“This air strike had flattened a residential building. A number of Palestinians have been injured according to initial reports from the location,” Al Jazeera correspondent Tareq Abu Azzoum reported from Rafah in southern Gaza. “Rescue operations continue as there are still more people under the rubble of the attacked house in the middle and central areas of Rafah.”

Red Crescent says Israel targets family home of medic, at least two dead

The Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS) has said Israeli forces attacked, in the Maghazi camp, the family home of Anwar Abu Holi, who serves as the director of the Central Gaza Ambulance Center. The PRCS said it pulled two bodies from the building and rescued five injured people “while many others remain under the rubble”.


Israel's "results" in protecting Gaza civilians don't match its stated intentions, US State Department says

The "results" in Gaza on protecting civilians "continue to not match where the Israeli intentions are," US State Department spokesperson Matt Miller said Thursday.  "That's certainly something that we will talk about" in Israel, Miller told CNN.

In his most recent trip to Israel late last year, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said the Israeli government understood the need to take specific steps to protect civilians as it prosecutes its war in Gaza. "We have seen them take a number of steps to try to minimize" civilian harm, Miller said, "and we will encourage them to continue to do more."

No shit Sherlock. You have been talking about it for months, what's going to be different this time?

US says it has not ‘seen anything’ to compel change in support for Israel

US law does not allow the transfer of weapons to countries engaged in human rights abuses.

Israel has been accused by leading rights groups of targeting civilian infrastructure in Gaza, as it has displaced more than 80 percent of the territory’s population. Israeli leaders have also openly called for the collective punishment of the territory, and UN experts have warned that Palestinians are at a “grave risk of genocide” because of the war.

But White House national security spokesperson John Kirby says Washington has not conducted a formal assessment into possible Israeli abuses and will not alter its push to supply Israel with bombs and weapons for the war. “I would just tell you that we have not seen anything that would convince us that we need to take a different approach in terms of trying to help Israel defend itself,” Kirby told reporters.

Can Kirby and Miller at least get their stories straight.

British MP calls on foreign secretary to condemn comments by Israeli ambassador

UK Labour Party MP Afzal Khan has penned a letter calling on Foreign Secretary David Cameron to condemn comments from Israeli ambassador Tzipi Hotovely, who recently said that “every school, every mosque, every second house has access to tunnels and ammunition” in Gaza.

Asked whether this amounted to a call for the total destruction of Gaza, Hotovely replied “Do you have another solution?”

“This is a clear call for the genocide of Palestinians,” Khan said in a social media post. “I’ve written to the Foreign Secretary, calling on him to condemn this and to take the strongest possible action against the Ambassador.”







More talk of escalation

Netanyahu to US official: Israel wants ‘fundamental change’ on Lebanon border

The Israeli prime minister met with US special envoy Amos Hochstein in Tel Aviv and told him that “Israel is committed to bringing about a fundamental change on its border with Lebanon”, Netanyahu’s office said. Washington has been stressing the need to prevent the conflict from expanding. Israel and Hezbollah have engaged in daily cross-border exchanges of fire since the war in Gaza broke out, leading to the evacuation of communities on both sides of the border.

“Prime Minister Netanyahu told US envoy Hochstein that following the murderous assault of October 7, Israel is more determined, daring and united than ever,” Netanyahu’s office said in a statement. It added that those among Israel’s neighbours “who do not currently understand this will yet do so very well, in the south, in the north and in all other arenas”.

Yesterday, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah said the group is “not afraid” of confronting Israel, pledging to fight a war with “no limits” and “no rules” if Israel attacks Lebanon.





LurkerJ said:
Qwark said:

Plenty of countries support Russia. Its just interests and the west has an interest in keeping things the way they are. Since the fall of Israël means there would be another vassal Iran state. Also isn't the West itself a master of genocide. The shit we pulled in Afghanistan was nothing short of it.

War is war and war without genocide is impossible. Israël is not going to stop and since the west has to many interests in the region they will not stop supporting Israel. They might make a public statement renouncing it, but the next fleet of weapons is most likely on its way.

And the question becomes; what do we need these allies for? What do we get in return of supporting genocides and cheer for the deaths of million civilians across the region? 

The fact is, these horrible allies have been bitch slapping Biden at every turn. Belkin goes there to get humiliated by every body. MBS atrocities in Yemen were allowed in the name of "but they're our ally, but the necessary evil, but we need their oil", blah blah blah. Russia hits and what do these ally do to save us from inflation and spiking prices? Cut oil, invite Russia to OPEC (now OPEC+) and flatten our economic growth and push countries like Germany into recession. They side with China, Russia as well as Iran. Amazing. 

What does Biden get from supporting Netanyahu? nothing, unless a higher possibly of defeat in the elections is a plus. 

The hawkish right doesn't care about what happens as a result of war and the apologetic left keeps pretending there is an "end game" and a good reason we don't just let what happens, but also a good reason to support it. Please. 

Aside from Japan, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea and some European countries the US doesn't really have allies. Only countries with whom their interests sometimes aligns and often not.

After Trump is reelected chances are high that the relationship with European countries will also become one of aligned interests and not really allies anymore. Just like how Turkiye is preventing acces to the Black Sea for minehunters which the UK wants to give to Ukraine.

An ally worth it's salt also supports you when things are not going so well. I dunno what Israel does for the US and Europe. Though I guess Europe, especially UK being the primary cause of this shitshow feel somewhat responsible for the Jews and will keep supporting Israel regardless, even though they might not agree with the war.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar